Star Wars: random thoughts and questions

[Wardog]

I've been watching Star Wars recently (Prequals, followed by Original Trilogy Special Edition), and have a thought thougths to share/questions to ask. (Mostly regarding RotJ, as I saw that one most recently).


Rescuing Han from Jabba:
1) After Leia had got to Han, did she have a plan to get Chewie out?
2) Lando was very lucky Had didn't just push him in to the Sarlak, given that the last time they met, he betrayed him to the Empire and had him frozen, and there was no opportunity to explain what was happening.
3) R2's zapper must be very powerful, if it could sever Leia's chain so easily. (Thinking deeper, perhaps the best way to explain the inconsistancies in weapon power in SW is simply "rocks and metal are weaker in the SW universe).

Luke and Vader:
Why was Luke so certain Vader still had some good in him? Vader has never done anything to indicate he had agood side, and the last time they met, he was clearly evil, and Luke was horrified (and in denial) to find he was his father. So much so that he prefered suicide to joining him.

Battle of Endor: I could have sworn that the Ewok glider that got shot down was trampled by the AT-ST. Am I mis-remembering (perhaps confusing it with Luke's snowspeeder in ESB), or was this edited out for the Special Edition?

Attacking the second Death Star: when the Rebel fighters split up to draw off the TIE fighters, and it worked. As a result of playing a lot of Star Conflict recently, my immediate thought was: "Noobs! Stick to the objective! Don't just fight in the middle of nowhere!"



Special Edition Stupidity:
Han meeting Jabba in ANH.
This is bad on so many levels. Firstly, its just a bad scene that doesn't add anything useful. Secondly, it utterly conflicts with the RotJ portrayal of Jabba. RotJ Jabba is portrayed as a terrifying, sinister being. Someone you would be scare just to go near their lair, and so powerful and sadistic you do not want to cross them. But now we have Solo trash-talking him, walking across his back, and generally showing no fear or respect whatsoever. Plus, it ruins the "now we see the Falcon for the first time, and realise it's a hunk of junk" scene. All in all, I think this is actually worse than the Han shot secondsimultaneously change.

Also, redubing Boba Fett. Why??? Identical twins don't sound identical. Why should a clone sound exactly like his "father" who died 20 years previously?

The Wampa in ESB: again, a clear case of Lucas thinking "You know, that scene where we kept the audience in suspence and sprung a surprise on them? I think we should change it so they know from the start what is happening".



The Prequal Trilogy.
I think pretty much everything that happens in this trilogy is better explained by Darths and Droids than in the actual films.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Taking the simplest points...


3) R2's zapper must be very powerful, if it could sever Leia's chain so easily. (Thinking deeper, perhaps the best way to explain the inconsistancies in weapon power in SW is simply "rocks and metal are weaker in the SW universe).

R2D2 is a maintinence droid. Of course you could expect him to have equipment capable of cutting metal.



Special Edition Stupidity:
Han meeting Jabba in ANH.
This is bad on so many levels. Firstly, its just a bad scene that doesn't add anything useful. Secondly, it utterly conflicts with the RotJ portrayal of Jabba. RotJ Jabba is portrayed as a terrifying, sinister being. Someone you would be scare just to go near their lair, and so powerful and sadistic you do not want to cross them. But now we have Solo trash-talking him, walking across his back, and generally showing no fear or respect whatsoever.

This was a deleted scene from the original film, where Jabba was actually a human. When they forced it into the re-cut after the Hutt had been redrawn as a giant slug-thingy they had to do a lot of CGI work. The walking across his back was the worst part of it - in the original Han was just circling him.

The whole scene plays out quite differently when it consists of two humans.
However, I would agree that they should have left it out after Jabba was reimaged.

[TheThan]

This was a deleted scene from the original film, where Jabba was actually a human. When they forced it into the re-cut after the Hutt had been redrawn as a giant slug-thingy they had to do a lot of CGI work. The walking across his back was the worst part of it - in the original Han was just circling him.

The whole scene plays out quite differently when it consists of two humans.
However, I would agree that they should have left it out after Jabba was reimaged.

Oh its worse than you realize.
Everything we need to know about Han’s situation regarding jabba is explained to us in the greedo scene. Then we are immediately given the exact same information all over again in the very next scene. I mean, we just learned that information and your telling us it again? Please give the audience a little bit more credit than that. we're not goldfish.

The jabba scene really needed to be left on the cutting room floor; it’s not necessary, completely redundant and adds nothing to the film.

[Hawriel]

Oh its worse than you realize.
Everything we need to know about Han’s situation regarding jabba is explained to us in the greedo scene. Then we are immediately given the exact same information all over again in the very next scene. I mean, we just learned that information and your telling us it again? Please give the audience a little bit more credit than that. we're not goldfish.

The jabba scene really needed to be left on the cutting room floor; it’s not necessary, completely redundant and adds nothing to the film.

It also creates a big contredictory element to the story. Greedo confronts Han because there is a bounty on his head. Jabba already had it, he is pissed and Han is now free game.

So why the hell did Jabba let Han go, after already cornering him in the landing bay!!!!????

Jabba is so pissed off to the point were he but a dead or alive bounty on Han. A person like Jabba does not do this unless he is making a statement to every one else. He is flexing is authority and making an example of Han. The statement is, Han screwed up and lost me mony, I gave him a chance to pay it back. He did not. Now I will pay some one to bring me his head. The only way out is if Han pays Jabba back with interest.

You do not meet with the person who screwed you over. Proclame a bounty because his made you look weak. Then let him go. Jabba should have captured Han, tourchered him, then killed him. Don't mess with Jabba.

Mean while Han talks to the All Mighty Jabba, as if he is just some guy wining about his money. The CGI makes Jabba look like a Disney character. Then Han steps on Jabba's tale totally disrespecting him, and making him look like a fool. In front of Jabba's top men. Han is not shot for that.

Not to mention Jabba goes personally to Han's ship to beg for his money.

yeah the re added scene should have been left on the cutting room floor. Only to be sceen in the making of and behind the scenes special features.

as for the OP's questions

1) Yes Liea and Luke had a plan to get chewie out. It was most likely Lando's job to get Chewie out of his cell at the right time. However any thing that was supposed to happen once Han was unfrozen is moot, because Jabba sprung is trap right then.

2)In Empire Lando did betray Han and Chewie. However it was Vader who made him do it. You know Vader would have killed Lando, and purged Cloud City as Rebels if Lando did not go along. It's Vader. A leader of the rebellion, Leia, was known to be going to Besbin. Han even though hurt and angry, under stood.

Also Lando was clearly helping Luke help rescue him. He was still weak from being in hibernation. Chewie would not have allowed it. Most importantly Han is not a petty vindictive scumbag.

3) R2 D2 is an intelligent maintenance and repair droid, who also is smart enough to do astronavigation. His electric arc welder can have the power adjusted. After all, different materials would need different levels of heat to weld. He did not just zap the chain once. He applied his welder like a real welder would. They just showed the last few seconds of him making the cut.

[Darth Credence]

1) After Leia had got to Han, did she have a plan to get Chewie out?
Luke had a force vision, and knew perfectly well that they would all end up at the sarlaac pit together. No need for a plan to get Chewie out, because they would all get out then.


2) Lando was very lucky Had didn't just push him in to the Sarlak, given that the last time they met, he betrayed him to the Empire and had him frozen, and there was no opportunity to explain what was happening.
Luke told Han to trust Lando ("Stick close to Chewie and Lando"), and Han would know that if Chewie had accepted him, there would have to be a good reason.


3) R2's zapper must be very powerful, if it could sever Leia's chain so easily. (Thinking deeper, perhaps the best way to explain the inconsistancies in weapon power in SW is simply "rocks and metal are weaker in the SW universe).
Already covered, his welder should have been able to cut through.


Luke and Vader:
Why was Luke so certain Vader still had some good in him? Vader has never done anything to indicate he had agood side, and the last time they met, he was clearly evil, and Luke was horrified (and in denial) to find he was his father. So much so that he prefered suicide to joining him.
Doesn't matter what Vader had done - it mattered what Luke felt through the force. In Empire, when Luke is on the Falcon and he mentally calls out "father" and gets the reply of "son", it shows that the two have a connection. If there was good in him, and the end showed there was, Luke should have felt it.


Battle of Endor: I could have sworn that the Ewok glider that got shot down was trampled by the AT-ST. Am I mis-remembering (perhaps confusing it with Luke's snowspeeder in ESB), or was this edited out for the Special Edition?
I don't remember seeing it stepped on.

Everything else - I pretty much agree completely.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't remember seeing it stepped on.

As far as I recall, the ATST merely steps next to the fallen glider, not on it.


As for these:

Also, redubing Boba Fett. Why??? Identical twins don't sound identical. Why should a clone sound exactly like his "father" who died 20 years previously?

For the same reason they put Hayden Christainsen in the scene with the ghosts of Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end of RotJ. I'm not saying it's a good reason, but there it is.


The Wampa in ESB: again, a clear case of Lucas thinking "You know, that scene where we kept the audience in suspence and sprung a surprise on them? I think we should change it so they know from the start what is happening".

In this case, it was actually less about suspense and more that they originally couldn't make the Wampa look good so only ever showed it in parts via extreme closeups and action shots. When they did the Special Edition, they were able to "correct" that and actually show what the creature really looked like.

Once again, I'm not saying the change was neccessarily for the better, but it is what it is.

[SnowballMan]

Rescuing Han from Jabba:
1) After Leia had got to Han, did she have a plan to get Chewie out?

"I don't know, I'm making this up as I go."


Luke had a force vision, and knew perfectly well that they would all end up at the sarlaac pit together. No need for a plan to get Chewie out, because they would all get out then.
I really hope this isn't supposed to be cannon. Kinda implies that he knew Leia was going to end up being violated and let her go in anyways.




2) Lando was very lucky Had didn't just push him in to the Sarlak, given that the last time they met, he betrayed him to the Empire and had him frozen, and there was no opportunity to explain what was happening.

There was plenty of time to fill Han in while both he and Chewie were waiting in the cell.



Luke and Vader:
Why was Luke so certain Vader still had some good in him? Vader has never done anything to indicate he had agood side...
One of many problems I have with the prequels. The most good we see Anikan do is offer shelter to Qui Gon and the gang. As an adult, all we see is an arrogant, unlikable brat. His going to the dark side seemed less like a fall and more like a step.


Battle of Endor: I could have sworn that the Ewok glider that got shot down was trampled by the AT-ST. Am I mis-remembering (perhaps confusing it with Luke's snowspeeder in ESB), or was this edited out for the Special Edition?

I do not ever remember one of them stepping on anything.



Special Edition Stupidity:
Also, redubing Boba Fett. Why??? Identical twins don't sound identical. Why should a clone sound exactly like his "father" who died 20 years previously?
Personally, I think they should have brought back Jason Wingreen for the prequels and have him be the voice you hear when Jango has his suit on.



The Wampa in ESB: again, a clear case of Lucas thinking "You know, that scene where we kept the audience in suspence and sprung a surprise on them? I think we should change it so they know from the start what is happening".

I'm a little disappointed they didn't include the scenes at the base where they fight off Wampas that had broken in. I know some of that was shot. The first showing of Empire I saw even had a scene right after Han and Leia are bickering in the hallway where a wampa arm bust through a wall.

[KillianHawkeye]

I really hope this isn't supposed to be cannon. Kinda implies that he knew Leia was going to end up being violated and let her go in anyways.

Firstly, regarding cannon. (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cannon_%28disambiguation%29)

Secondly, I don't remember her being "violated"? :smallconfused:

[hamishspence]

This was a deleted scene from the original film, where Jabba was actually a human. When they forced it into the re-cut after the Hutt had been redrawn as a giant slug-thingy they had to do a lot of CGI work. The walking across his back was the worst part of it - in the original Han was just circling him.

The whole scene plays out quite differently when it consists of two humans.
However, I would agree that they should have left it out after Jabba was reimaged.
In the novel, Jabba is already described as a "tub of suet with a shaggy scarred skull".

They used an actor for the scene- but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been reshot in alien costume if the scene had been left in- Star Wars comic shows Jabba as an alien- but a humanoid one.

[TheThan]

In the novel, Jabba is already described as a "tub of suet with a shaggy scarred skull".

They used an actor for the scene- but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been reshot in alien costume if the scene had been left in- Star Wars comic shows Jabba as an alien- but a humanoid one.

Yeah, it was cut for two reasons, the reason I mentioned above, and that they simply didn’t have the tech back then to do it.

[SnowballMan]

Firstly, regarding cannon. (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cannon_%28disambiguation%29)

So I misspelled canon. Shoot me. :smallamused:



Secondly, I don't remember her being "violated"? :smallconfused:
She goes from being in bounty hunter armor surrounded by thugs, gangsters and assorted riff raff, to being chained up in a bikini. I very much doubt they provided her a dressing room and asked her nicely if she would be good enough to change.

[KillianHawkeye]

She goes from being in bounty hunter armor surrounded by thugs, gangsters and assorted riff raff, to being chained up in a bikini. I very much doubt they provided her a dressing room and asked her nicely if she would be good enough to change.

You are assuming an event which is never mentioned or even implied.

[Manga Shoggoth]

In the novel, Jabba is already described as a "tub of suet with a shaggy scarred skull".

They used an actor for the scene- but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been reshot in alien costume if the scene had been left in- Star Wars comic shows Jabba as an alien- but a humanoid one.

...A description that could equally describe a hirsute, overweight crime boss, even if Han wasn't being grossly insulting. Even then, an alien need not have been the huge slug that Jabba became in the third film.

I'll have to dig the old novel out - I seem to recall an encounter with Jabba in the original novel - although my current copy is a later one (including all three films), and it could have been revised.

However, citing the novel isn't much of an arguement for intentions in the film - as I recall, the comic book version (which came out at the same time) showed Jabba as a human. However, I don't have the comics any more, so I can't check.

[Cikomyr]

You are assuming an event which is never mentioned or even implied.

If Leia has nightmares and mental scarring, it will be about Vader torturing her in ANH, not sexual abuse by a gangster.

[KillianHawkeye]

If Leia has nightmares and mental scarring, it will be about Vader torturing her in ANH, not sexual abuse by a gangster.

Or maybe watching her parents getting killed along with everyone on her entire planet, and the planet itself being completely obliterated? While she stood by and watched helplessly? Yeah, probably that.

[Cikomyr]

Or maybe watching her parents getting killed along with everyone on her entire planet, and the planet itself being completely obliterated? While she stood by and watched helplessly? Yeah, probably that.

Extremely good point! I completely forgot about that. Seriously, Alderaan's destruction never brought much of an emotional impact to me. I think I felt more outrage and sadness during Despicable Me 2, when I saw the bad guy's plan, than I did at Tarkin's blowing up a planet.

[hamishspence]

as I recall, the comic book version (which came out at the same time) showed Jabba as a human. However, I don't have the comics any more, so I can't check.

Nope- this article:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mosep_Binneed

shows at the bottom, a picture of the Marvel version of Jabba in that comic- and discusses the issue in detail.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Nope- this article:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mosep_Binneed

shows at the bottom, a picture of the Marvel version of Jabba in that comic- and discusses the issue in detail.

Cool - Thanks for that. (The article on Jabba goes into a little more details as well).

[Friv]

Extremely good point! I completely forgot about that. Seriously, Alderaan's destruction never brought much of an emotional impact to me. I think I felt more outrage and sadness during Despicable Me 2, when I saw the bad guy's plan, than I did at Tarkin's blowing up a planet.

I know what you mean. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix5h-hZfLTY)

Seriously, though, it's sort of a flaw of people. Alderaan's destruction is (a) too big, and (b) never involves anyone that we see. No empathic bond is developed between us and Leia's family, and the movie sort of keeps going without dwelling on it, so it doesn't really affect us.