Legion of Sentinels how does it work?

[Blackhawk748]

Ok so i know it makes a bunch of ghostly fighter but this is what confuses me Each swordfighter threatens the squares adjacent to it and
can make one attack of opportunity per round.

Ok that seems self explanatory, but i have no idea what Total Attack Bonus is or how much damage the do. So help would be appreciated.

[Urpriest]

This was added in errata:


Page 116 – Legion of Sentinels
[Omission]
Should include the following text at the end of its
description: “The swordsmen’s attacks are at a
bonus equal to your caster level, they threaten
critical hits on a 19 or 20, and they deal 1d8 points
of slashing damage with a +1 bonus per three caster
levels (max +5). They only make attacks of
opportunity, and their weapon damage is slashing
and is affected by damage reduction.”

[Blackhawk748]

Thank you oh mighty UrPirest, i wanted to use it but it seemed useless as written lol

[CyberThread]

oh that would be fun with fell drain...

[Blackhawk748]

oh that would be fun with fell drain...

Oh god.................this must be done!

[CyberThread]

get the meta magic rod for it , so you don't burn out your spell slots.

[Blackhawk748]

I think this has the ability to slaughter armies, this is arguably one of the best uses for Fell Drain i've ever heard of.

[CyberThread]

Well it is a third level spell that does at best 1d8 + however many come charging at you , a ranged fireball does more damage and hurts them before they come at you.

Although they are ethral, if someone tries to shoot you with an arrow or ray attack, I wonder if they provide any cover or take/can take the blow for you.


Honestly, I would craft such an item for a rogue or your heavy melee hitters, so they can go into the middle of combat and suddenly have these pop up , to provide sneak damage and a buffer.


This is your low level version (sort of) of whirling blades.

[Blackhawk748]

They dont provide cover, and it is short range, but i was thinking of using this on a choke point and running as it is a 10ft radius emanation centered on a point. Hell use an Invisible Fell Drain Explosive Rune Field in front of them for more destruction.

[Big Fau]

Widen Spell makes it even better!

[Blackhawk748]

god i have to do this now, i think i just made the mine field from hell

[CyberThread]

This does count as a shadow spell also, which means, if you are looking to use this allot and stuff, a level of the shadow PRC would be good, gives you a huge boon against dispelling, being detected as far as someone rounding the corner, and really hammers home the affect of the magic.

[Blackhawk748]

Well now i have added incentive to be a Shadow Adept, i've always thought about doing it but ive always been distracted by something else that was equally cool

[CyberThread]

no Shadow Adept

[TuggyNE]

They dont provide cover, and it is short range, but i was thinking of using this on a choke point and running as it is a 10ft radius emanation centered on a point. Hell use an Invisible Fell Drain Explosive Rune Field in front of them for more destruction.

Have traps of Otto's (ir)resistable dance in the midst of the choke point for more AoO fun.

[ksbsnowowl]

Wasn't there some ruling that Fell Drain could only happen once per casting?

Like a Magic Missile would only drain one target, not all five.

Maybe someone just claimed that once, and that's all I'm remembering.

[CyberThread]

city bomb trick works with fell drain, so no.

[ksbsnowowl]

Maybe it was no more than one negative level per target per casting. So spreading out the missiles worked, but you couldn't hit one target with all five to inflict 5 neg levels on him all at once.

I'm tired, that's all I've got.

[TuggyNE]

Maybe it was no more than one negative level per target per casting. So spreading out the missiles worked, but you couldn't hit one target with all five to inflict 5 neg levels on him all at once.

Yeah, that's what it was; all that matters is the binary "was the target affected by this casting?".

[Big Fau]

Well it is a third level spell that does at best 1d8 + however many come charging at you , a ranged fireball does more damage and hurts them before they come at you.

Reread Legion of Sentinels. Every time an enemy provokes an AoO all Sentinels adjacent to that enemy gets to attack. While this doesn't help with Fell Drain, it does mean that you can deal (1d8+5)*X, where X=# of spaces that count as adjacent to that enemy. A Medium creature gets hit by 17 AoOs (25 if the enemy was flying), a Large one takes 40 (56 if flying).

Legion of Sentinels is a downright lethal spell if the enemy provokes an AoO (Bigby's Buzzing Bee can force it).

[Sith_Happens]

Reread Legion of Sentinels. Every time an enemy provokes an AoO all Sentinels adjacent to that enemy gets to attack. While this doesn't help with Fell Drain, it does mean that you can deal (1d8+5)*X, where X=# of spaces that count as adjacent to that enemy. A Medium creature gets hit by 17 AoOs (25 if the enemy was flying), a Large one takes 40 (56 if flying).

Legion of Sentinels is a downright lethal spell if the enemy provokes an AoO (Bigby's Buzzing Bee can force it).

...You know, something tells me that when they wrote the "Area" entry for Legion of Sentinels they were forgetting about the Z-axis.

[Hamste]

Add in a fear effect as well and you can make an enemy who just got to you run through it again.

[Big Fau]

...You know, something tells me that when they wrote the "Area" entry for Legion of Sentinels they were forgetting about the Z-axis.

Even then, 8d8+40 or 12d8+60 is impressive damage. Legion of Sentinels is the kind of spell that lasts you for 15 levels, especially once you start stacking metamagic (Twinned, Empowered, Maximized, Fell Drain). It gets a little bit more powerful if you can give it an energy descriptor as you can improve the damage even further.

[Blackhawk748]

how did i forget the Z axis, it even says that a Sentinel appears in each square in the area. From now on im taking this spell.

[Big Fau]

how did i forget the Z axis, it even says that a Sentinel appears in each square in the area. From now on im taking this spell.

There are several reasons to never ban Illusion as a Wizard. Legion of Sentinels may be the coolest one ever, just because of how practical it is.

Now if only there were a way to boost the Sentinel's attack bonuses (other than massively debuffing the target's AC).

[CyberThread]

Well it is a shadow/illusion spell


Empower spell , and wounding spell, can be used on it. AS those swords do , do damage.

I wonder becuase it does do damage, you can use some sort of substitute energy feat, and use three thunders with it.

[The Viscount]

Coldcasting and energy sub electricity will get you qualified for born of three thunders.

[Nettlekid]

(The cutoff before thread necromancy is 6 weeks right? Am I still okay?)

Something I want to know is, when it says "makes checks with a bonus equal to your caster level," what does THAT mean? Skill checks? Ability checks? Trip/Grapple checks? Because if you had a CL of 20, this would mean having a small legion of creature capable of making good Use Rope or Spot/Listen checks, if they can use such things. Any creature making an ability check with a +20 bonus is quite formidable. And depending on your foe, those Trip checks could be pretty powerful. Is that what it means by check?

[Grayson01]

there is a achillies heel to this spell though, that our DM pulled out on us with a Warblade he made. 5ft steps.... Tottally ruined it when he just 5ft stepped through when the Warmage Summed it on him.

[Urpriest]

there is a achillies heel to this spell though, that our DM pulled out on us with a Warblade he made. 5ft steps.... Tottally ruined it when he just 5ft stepped through when the Warmage Summed it on him.

That takes a long time, though, since you can only do it once per round. That's the thing about the spell: it's not a straight-damage spell, it's a catch-22. Either waste several rounds sidling through it while being pelted with attacks, or take lots of damage.

[Hamste]

there is a achillies heel to this spell though, that our DM pulled out on us with a Warblade he made. 5ft steps.... Tottally ruined it when he just 5ft stepped through when the Warmage Summed it on him.

Do warblades have the ability to make more then one 5 ft per turn or something? That is still atleast two turns during which you can snipe them but they can't with out provoking AoO.

[nedz]

Well it's a good spell for blocking a corridor, but it is only reactive and it doesn't move. It might be fun with Sculpt Spell though.

[tyckspoon]

There is a achillies heel to this spell though, that our DM pulled out on us with a Warblade he made. 5ft steps.... Tottally ruined it when he just 5ft stepped through when the Warmage Summed it on him.

If he could 5-foot step and still usefully reach somebody to hit, then you were misapplying it - there's a time and a place for every spell, and Legion of Sentinel's place is not when your target is already in position for a stand-still slugging match. Unless you're about to follow it up by having your party fighter Bullrush him around or hit him with a Reverse Gravity or something.

Edit: And yes, Sculpt Spell is excellent with this thing, as would Widen Spell.. at least, if they had ever made appropriately priced Metamagic Rods of Widen Spell. Still not worth taking or using the actual feat.

[Nettlekid]

Anyone have a clearer RAI interpretation of that whole "CL as bonus on checks" thing?

[nedz]

Edit: And yes, Sculpt Spell is excellent with this thing, as would Widen Spell.. at least, if they had ever made appropriately priced Metamagic Rods of Widen Spell. Still not worth taking or using the actual feat.
Sudden Widen maybe ?
It doesn't increase the spell level and using Widen more than 1/day is hard to pull off.

Anyone have a clearer RAI interpretation of that whole "CL as bonus on checks" thing?

They don't have HD or Stats, so this means that their Reflex, Will and Fort saves are at +CL

[Nettlekid]

They don't have HD or Stats, so this means that their Reflex, Will and Fort saves are at +CL

It says "It makes saving throws or checks with a bonus equal to your caster level." Saving throws OR checks. So there's gotta be something more than just saves.

[Fax Celestis]

PS: have your dungeoncrasher fighter buddy shove someone through your legion before pushing them into a wall.

[Urpriest]

It says "It makes saving throws or checks with a bonus equal to your caster level." Saving throws OR checks. So there's gotta be something more than just saves.

If they have to make some sort of check, they use your caster level as the bonus. Since they can't take any actions beyond those specified in the spell, the checks only come into play if they're reactive checks forced by other abilities (and maybe Spot and Listen to find hidden enemies so they can AOO them, I guess).

[Nettlekid]

If they have to make some sort of check, they use your caster level as the bonus. Since they can't take any actions beyond those specified in the spell, the checks only come into play if they're reactive checks forced by other abilities (and maybe Spot and Listen to find hidden enemies so they can AOO them, I guess).

Hmm, I guess that's fair. I was hoping they might be able to use untrained skill checks. Still, might they be able to use that bonus on say, a Trip check, since that's something that can be used as an AoO? If so, that might make the spell even stronger, since if the foe is tripped, they provoke AoOs by standing, and the Legion could act to trip them again.

[Urpriest]

Hmm, I guess that's fair. I was hoping they might be able to use untrained skill checks. Still, might they be able to use that bonus on say, a Trip check, since that's something that can be used as an AoO? If so, that might make the spell even stronger, since if the foe is tripped, they provoke AoOs by standing, and the Legion could act to trip them again.

Since they don't have any explicit weapons, they probably can't trip with their weapons.

The thing about the Legion is that they're still spell effects, not creatures, so there's a limited amount that can reasonably affect them.

[Grayson01]

The Warblade might have something that lets it make more then one 5ft step, but that is not what the DM did It was just the Class thatw as used. As for the Snipping it the Ranger was occupied at the moment and it's only a 10 ft radious so it was only held up for 2 rounds. Oh and Tumble is a kick in the balls to it as well.
Just so we are clear I am not saying it's a bad spell, I happen to love this spell just saying it's got some drawbasks people forget about.


Do warblades have the ability to make more then one 5 ft per turn or something? That is still atleast two turns during which you can snipe them but they can't with out provoking AoO.

[Harrow]

I've always loved this spell. It stays useful over many levels as you gain metamagic (the 'fell' series, sculpt, invisible). It's also great in combination with other AoE spells. If someone is already in it, hitting them with grease, solid fog, stinking cloud, glitterdust, or sleet storm will ruin their day. They are all pretty great on their own, but on top of a legion they almost feel like cheating.

As of tumbling away, remember that each additional threaten-er adds +2 to the check. if you place it on someone, that's DC 21 if you ignore the z axis, which is a number not all enemies with be able to pull off. If you sculpt it, you can easily make 9 sentinels threaten at once, bringing the check up to 31. IIRC, you can't use tumble to bypass AoOs from opponents you can't see, so Invisible spell and blinding enemies also locks a lot of them down.

Really, it isn't the perfect spell. But it's easily on my top 5 list for most 'fun' spells.

Does anyone know if there's a higher level version of it in some splatbook or another?

[nedz]

Well there's Phantom Battle, but it's not quite the same.