Double weapon with Monk question (3.5)

[Pandemic21]

I think that this is the appropriate place to ask this, if it's not please let me know.

So I'm about to start a campaign (mainly 3.5 rules, but with a bit of Pathfinder) with a few friends. I don't have much DnD experience, but I do know the basics. Unfortunately I've always played some sort of caster so I don't know much about actual combat.

This time I'm rolling a Monk, and he's going to be wielding a quarterstaff, which counts as a double weapon (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#quarterstaff)). Double weapons can be used as two-handed weapons, which means I get to attack twice in combat: once with end A, once with end B (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#twoWeaponFighting)).

I also get Flurry of Blows, which says "When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round," which means I get three attacks in combat (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#flurryofBlows)).

I'm also taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, which says "You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon," which means I get four attacks in combat. (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting)).

Because the Quarterstaff is a light weapon that Monks are proficient with I get -2 on all attack rolls (primary or offhand). Because I'm using Flurry of Blows I get -2 on all attack rolls.

Question: Can I indeed make 4 attacks per combat round, with my attack bonus being equal to 0 (BAB) + 2 (STR modifier) + 0 (size modifier) - 2 (flurry of blows) - 2 (Two-Weapon) = -2? So every successful attack roll I make will do 1d6 damage, and I can make 4 attack rolls at -2 attack bonus each?

I've been trying to figure this out for quite a few hours, but obviously eventually gave up and decided to post here. Am I missing something or does this, indeed, work?

Also, are there any differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder regarding these rules?


Answer
You only get 3 attacks per round, getting an attack bonus of BAB + STR mod + FoB modifier - 2 (Two-Weapon). All attacks deal normal damage, except the final attack (the one with your off-hand), which you only add half your STR mod to.

You cannot combine FoB and TWF in Pathfinder, only 3.5.

Thanks for the help guys :smallsmile:

[Lightlawbliss]

are you taking greater two weapon fighting? Normal TWF just drops the penalty when you use TWF

[KillianHawkeye]

No, the most attacks you could get this way is 3 (one main hand attack, one off hand attack, and one extra attack from FoB). Also, not all DMs will allow Two-Weapon Fighting and Flurry of Blows at the same time, since Flurry of Blows already allows attacking with multiple weapons. Double-check this with your DM.

Your calculation for the attack roll penalties is correct, but note that your extra off hand attack only gets half your Strength modifier to damage (the main attack and FoB attack get full Strength to damage as normal).

EDIT:

are you taking greater two weapon fighting? Normal TWF just drops the penalty when you use TWF

He can't take Improved TWF at level 1.

[Pandemic21]

are you taking greater two weapon fighting? Normal TWF just drops the penalty when you use TWF

Not yet. At level 1 I'll only have TWF, Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple.

[Pandemic21]

No, the most attacks you could get this way is 3 (one main hand attack, one off hand attack, and one extra attack from FoB). Also, not all DMs will allow Two-Weapon Fighting and Flurry of Blows at the same time, since Flurry of Blows already allows attacking with multiple weapons. Double-check this with your DM.

Your calculation for the attack roll penalties is correct, but note that your extra off hand attack only gets half your Strength modifier to damage (the main attack and FoB attack get full Strength to damage as normal).

EDIT:


He can't take Improved TWF at level 1.

Oh, I just re-read TWF for about the twentieth time and finally got it.

So without TWF you can hold a weapon in both hands if you want, but you can only attack with your primary. With TWF you get 1 attack with the primary, 1 attack with the off-hand weapon.

Got it.

[Lightlawbliss]

Oh, I just re-read TWF for about the twentieth time and finally got it.

So without TWF you can hold a weapon in both hands if you want, but you can only attack with your primary. With TWF you get 1 attack with the primary, 1 attack with the off-hand weapon.

Got it.

not quite...

without TWF, you are a lot less accurate if you use both mainhand and off-hand

[Urpriest]

In Pathfinder, you can't combine Flurry with TWF because Flurry is in some muddled designer-understanding the same thing as TWF. In 3.5 you can definitely combine them, getting three attacks as described. And yes, as mentioned you can two-weapon fight without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, merely taking harsh penalties. Note that a Monk gets their full Str bonus to damage for all attacks in a Flurry of Blows, which means that your "off-hand" doesn't take a penalty to damage, but also means that you can't get the 1.5 times Str to damage from a two-hander while using Flurry.

[KillianHawkeye]

Okay, here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#twoWeaponFighting) Look at the chart.

The lines that say "normal penalties" and "off-hand weapon is light" are what you get if you try to use Two Weapon Fighting without the feat. Having the feat doesn't grant any additional attacks (at least not until you get Improved TWF), it just lowers the penalties as shown on the chart.

[Pandemic21]

not quite...

without TWF, you are a lot less accurate if you use both mainhand and off-hand

Ah, I see. I think I finally get it.

And every single one of my attacks would be done with an attack bonus of -2, and all deal damage equal to 1d6+STR mod, except for the last one (the off-hand attack), which deals 1d6+(STR mod / 2)?

What if I make that attack a unarmed attack and elbow them? Monks don't have an offhand when they're unarmed, which would mean that I would deal 1d6+STR mod?

[erikun]

You can Flurry (or TWF, for that matter) with any monk weapons you have. This means monk unarmed strikes as well, so you could have two quarterstaff strikes and an unarmed strike, three quarterstaff strikes, one quarterstaff strike with one unarmed strike and an attack with a kama (using quickdraw to pull it out), or any other combination of attacks you can work out.

Also note that TWF + Flurry would technically be at a -4 to hit, since you get a -2 penalty from TWF and a -2 penalty from Flurry for all attacks. With your character's STR 14, you're looking at -2/-2/-2 to hit with 1d6+2 damage each by technical reading (Flurry means damage as a one-handed weapon for each attack). You can run that reading by the DM first if you're worried about them not interpreting it in the same light.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Not yet. At level 1 I'll only have TWF, Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple.

Are you sure that there isn't a different feat that you'd rather take? IIRC, the 3.5e version of that feat is... well, sad.

[Lightlawbliss]

Are you sure that there isn't a different feat that you'd rather take? IIRC, the 3.5e version of that feat is... well, sad.

That is the +1 to ac when TWF, correct?

[Big Fau]

That is the +1 to ac when TWF, correct?

Yeah, it's pretty bad for a feat.

[Grayson01]

Also note that TWF + Flurry would technically be at a -4 to hit, since you get a -2 penalty from TWF and a -2 penalty from Flurry for all attacks. With your character's STR 14, you're looking at -2/-2/-2 to hit with 1d6+2 damage each by technical reading (Flurry means damage as a one-handed weapon for each attack). You can run that reading by the DM first if you're worried about them not interpreting it in the same light.

That is wrong where are you getting (3) -2's? he has a +2 from a 14 STG a -2 from Flurry and -2 from TWF +2-2-2=-2.

[Lightlawbliss]

That is wrong where are you getting (3) -2's? he has a +2 from a 14 STG a -2 from Flurry and -2 from TWF +2-2-2=-2.

the #/#/# format is representing the bonuses for individual attacks