Best stealth races and possibly class

[drakoonity]

Ok so for this one campaign we will be doing an evil one which I'm super excited for. The DM said he would let us be some races that weren't exactly normal so like monsters kind of thing. He also said it was going to be more stealth based so everyone will have to at least level dip into rogue just so they can get sneak attack and that stuff. My question is what are some pretty good stealth races I could look at, and possibly some classes to also go into. One I was thinking is go warlock then go invisible and fly like 5 inches off the ground so I don't have to make a move silent check and can just float around touch attacking everything, but what do you all think? Any advice or help is greatly appreciated thanks :smallsmile:.

[Darth Stabber]

The stealthiest class is easily Wizard. Wizard is better at everything than any class made to do that thing.

The best races are human, tinker gnome, illumian, strong heart halfling, deep imaskari, and any +int elf (especially with dragonborn).

If you want a traditional sneaky class
Factotum>bard>rogue>scout>ranger>everything else.

Best races: whisper gnome, human, strongheart halfling, regular halfling, and any of the previous races with dark template.

[Splendor]

Best race is Skulk in the Races of Destiny.
Gains +4 MS, +5 Hide, +2 Dex at 1st level.
Of you take the 3lv Skulk racial class you end up with +4 dex, +8 MS, +15 Hide, Nondetection, Peerless Camouflage (no penalties to hide when moving), Trackless Path.

[DementedFellow]

Muckdweller +6 Dex, Tiny size, gets a swim speed.

You don't even have to try hard to get a sizable bonus on hide, move silently and balance.

Also you can blind people one round and sneak attack them the next.

[ShurikVch]

Hairy Spider: Hide +22 :smallbiggrin:

[Gavinfoxx]

You should read this:

http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11034

[BowStreetRunner]

What you want to look for are bonuses to your stealth skills (Whisper Gnome for instance has +4 racial to Hide and Move Silently, as well as +4 size bonus to Hide) as well as abilities that allow you to make Hide checks in unusual conditions (normally you cannot Hide without either cover or concealment and you also cannot Hide while someone is observing you). Note that there are a bunch of abilities called Camouflage or Hide in Plain sight that have various wordings so not all of them are equal. The Shadowdancer PrC is one class that has an ability at first level that does both (hide while observed without cover or concealment).

Besides those, you will also benefit from anything that improves your movement - you are often limited to half speed while attempting to move silent. I should point out that there is no real game mechanic that allows you to skip the move silent checks for hovering, or even gives you a bonus to move silently when doing so. (Maybe all that arm-flapping is causing a bunch of noise! :smallwink:) So things like Fast Movement help alleviate the penalty of moving at half-speed, but there are also abilities like the Dread Commando 5 has which reduce the movement penalties. Anything that allows you to ignore difficult terrain (Woodland Stride, Flawless Stride) can help this too.

Abilities that reduce armor-check penalties allow you to wear better armor when trying to be stealthy too. Both Hide and Move Silently are affected by ACP.

I would also look at things like Trackless Step - because otherwise they can just follow your tracks - although hovering would logically help in this case. You also don't want to be located by scent, tremorsense, blindsense or blindsight, so taking the Darkstalker feat is going to be key.

[Ernir]

Stealth race? I nominate Tibbit (Dragon Compendium).

They are kind of good at hiding out of the box. But the best part is that even if someone notices them - they're just a cat. Screw not being seen, be not noteworthy!

Breaks once True Seeing starts popping up everywhere, of course.

[Chronos]

Kobolds are also a good choice, if all of the books and web enhancements which improve them are allowed. In particular, they get the Slight Build ability, which lets them count as Tiny when beneficial for many purposes, including for bonuses to Hide.

They also get three natural weapons (and can get another from their tail), which are useful if your sneaky class happens to have a lot of precision damage (Sneak Attack or similar).

[Waker]

I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned Beguilers yet. The class has plenty of skill points, is an int-based caster and specializes in illusion and enchantment. You can easily keep your stealth skills maxed, pop invisibility, and go to town.

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd direct you to the Gnowhere Gnome (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29427631/), but I can never seem to find him...

[ZamielVanWeber]

Lesser Svirfneblin, especially combined with Shadowcraft Mage, is great at stealth.

[Urpriest]

Note that sneak attack doesn't help you with stealth, rather stealth helps you sneak attack. There is no reason to pick up a level of rogue if all you want is to be stealthy.

[Khedrac]

If you want a traditional sneaky class
Factotum>bard>rogue>scout>ranger>everything else.Just where would you put Beguiler in that list? It's pretty much got all the wizard sneak spells + silence and it's a "traditional sneaky class"...

[Psyren]

The stealthiest class is easily Wizard. Wizard is better at everything than any class made to do that thing.


Wizard can be. Pulling it off in practice requires player skill, knowing the necessary spells, and prior preparation.



If you want a traditional sneaky class
Factotum>bard>rogue>scout>ranger>everything else.

Where's beguiler, where's psyrogue, where's spellthief, heck, where's ninja and lurk?

Bard I wouldn't rank up there - their class features aside from the high skills (music, spells) tend to be noisy in a stealth situation.

[Lightlawbliss]

where is swordsage? swordsage is perfectly capable of hiding, especially the followers of shadow hand.

[Segev]

The LA is a bit high, and it has some unique challenges one must stay aware of, bit playing a ghost anything can be amongst the best stealthier ever. Incorporeal creatures explicitly never fail move silently checks. Ad the freedom to go hide in the ethereal and the power to slip inside objects(thus brewing line of effect, too), and this has tremendous potential as a stealth character.

[Darth Stabber]

Just where would you put Beguiler in that list? It's pretty much got all the wizard sneak spells + silence and it's a "traditional sneaky class"...


Wizard can be. Pulling it off in practice requires player skill, knowing the necessary spells, and prior preparation.

Where's beguiler, where's psyrogue, where's spellthief, heck, where's ninja and lurk?

Bard I wouldn't rank up there - their class features aside from the high skills (music, spells) tend to be noisy in a stealth situation.


where is swordsage? swordsage is perfectly capable of hiding, especially the followers of shadow hand.

1) not listed by stealthyness but by total efficacy.

2) no clue about psi rogue

3) good catch on beguiler and swod sage

4) spellthief falls under everything else. They have a cute shtick, but it's shtick is narrow and it's just a sub-par rogue.

5) yes the wizard option requires player skill, but that's true of most options, wizard has a very low optimiation floor.

Upon further review

Factotum>beguiler>swordsage>rogue>scout>ranger>everything else.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get the Dark Creature template if you can buy off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) the +1 LA.

[Soranar]

another small race is the jermlaine, better stats than the muckdweller too since you get a huge bonus to wisdom

For that reason they make excellent swordsages (even an unarmed swordsage jermlaine can become problematic, there's also a giant killing stance that gives you a sizable bonus vs creatures 2 categories larger than you which means anything medium and up)

The above should be a tier 3 option

another tier 3 option is the whispergnome/factotum

if you want a higher tier character, a wizard can definitely hide with the best of them. For roleplay purposes I'd suggest an unseen seer build as they get access to very interesting spells

a human spellthief/chameleon can be a force to be reckoned with depending on what books you have available and what level your campaign is going to be

For a low level campaign, the whisphergnome factotum is going to be your best bet.

Finally a dragonborn of bahamut mongrelfolk wildshape ranger can both sneak and be extremely versatile. Your race is only good to grant you a huge bonus to hitpoints (+6 to CON) while your wildshaping gives you a bonus to hide through wildshape options. You can also go through master of many forms to gain access to even smaller forms with better movement options.

[Chronos]

I would actually say that when it comes to stealth, the wizard has a fairly high floor, but a low ceiling. It's no effort at all to just cast Invisibility and have a pretty good basic stealth, but a wizard is going to have a considerably harder time sneaking past, say, a Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires) than an actual stealth-focused character will.

[Darth Stabber]

Get the Dark Creature template if you can buy off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) the +1 LA.

Even without buyoff it could be worth it. Big sneak bonuses, HiPS, and a speed boost.


I would actually say that when it comes to stealth, the wizard has a fairly high floor, but a low ceiling. It's no effort at all to just cast Invisibility and have a pretty good basic stealth, but a wizard is going to have a considerably harder time sneaking past, say, a Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires) than an actual stealth-focused character will.

a wizard would teleport right past it no roll, no fuss, no muss, the rogue has to pass a check.

And there is far more to wizard stealth than invisibility. Teleports, summons, illusions, turning himself into innocuous creatures, and any number of other very powerful tricks.

[Lightlawbliss]

..
And there is far more to wizard stealth than invisibility. Teleports, summons, illusions, turning himself into innocuous creatures, and any number of other very powerful tricks.

Most the the powerful stealth tricks are beaten a lot easier then good old hide an move silently checks backed with darkstalker and one of a long list of ways to "turn out the lights".

True sight (rather common by the time the wizard becomes a force to be worshiped) and some form of protection from mind control (dirt could cost more) will make most common wizard stealth tricks useless. teleports are only good when you know where your teleporting to, they are useless when you don't know where your going. Summons aren't typically very hard to notice and summon spells are typically close range.

[Piggy Knowles]

Most the the powerful stealth tricks are beaten a lot easier then good old hide an move silently checks backed with darkstalker and one of a long list of ways to "turn out the lights".

True sight (rather common by the time the wizard becomes a force to be worshiped) and some form of protection from mind control (dirt could cost more) will make most common wizard stealth tricks useless. teleports are only good when you know where your teleporting to, they are useless when you don't know where your going. Summons aren't typically very hard to notice and summon spells are typically close range.

Superior Invisibility + Mind Blank is surprisingly hard to beat, unless your spot check is high enough to see invisible creatures.

EDIT: Not to mention etherealness, which also foils a ton of things that are otherwise hard counters to stealth. A level 9 wizard with LPB can essentially have etherealness at will by bringing in a nightmare, and that's not easy to beat at all - even Mindsight won't get around that.

[Darth Stabber]

Most the the powerful stealth tricks are beaten a lot easier then good old hide an move silently checks backed with darkstalker and one of a long list of ways to "turn out the lights".

True sight (rather common by the time the wizard becomes a force to be worshiped) and some form of protection from mind control (dirt could cost more) will make most common wizard stealth tricks useless. teleports are only good when you know where your teleporting to, they are useless when you don't know where your going. Summons aren't typically very hard to notice and summon spells are typically close range.

Illusions offer no saving throw if not interacted with, throwing up an illusion of "5' of floor in front of a wall" 5' in front of a wall is better than invisibility or hide before true seeing becomes common.

Summons are distractions, even the most observant creatures are unlikely to notice you when in combat.

Short range teleports from just outside one edge of a guards field of vision to another. And even longer ranged teleports are amazing if you do your divination homework.

Honestly divination puts the wizard leagues ahead, as it makes reconnaissance unneeded, you can do a quick in and out, avoiding most of the enemies.

Turning into innocuous animals, possibly magic aura'd to appear like a normal animal under scrutiny, works wonders, rats and bugs are great for this. If you live in a cave, a rat is probably beneath your notice.

[Curmudgeon]

The stealthiest class is easily Wizard. Wizard is better at everything than any class made to do that thing.
No, I don't think so. Many special senses don't have spells that counter them. However, the Darkstalker feat (Lords of Madness) forces anyone with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense to make Spot or Listen checks to notice you with those senses. Those are opposed by Hide and Move Silently — but those are not Wizard class skills.

A sufficiently high level Wizard can move to a different plane and scout around via magic; however, such spells are limited in the sensory information they provide, and in duration. With enough levels a Wizard could make an adequate stealthy adventurer, but not a great one. They'd be hopeless any time a room was shielded with a thin layer of lead inside the walls, for instance.

[Psyren]

No, I don't think so. Many special senses don't have spells that counter them. However, the Darkstalker feat (Lords of Madness) forces anyone with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense to make Spot or Listen checks to notice you with those senses. Those are opposed by Hide and Move Silently — but those are not Wizard class skills.

A sufficiently high level Wizard can move to a different plane and scout around via magic; however, such spells are limited in the sensory information they provide, and in duration. With enough levels a Wizard could make an adequate stealthy adventurer, but not a great one. They'd be hopeless any time a room was shielded with a thin layer of lead inside the walls, for instance.

Indeed, and even those senses that are countered by spells require the right spells, and at the right time.

[Werephilosopher]

If you can afford the racial hit dice, Chitines (Underdark p. 7) are worth looking at. 2HD Monstrous Humanoid and +2 LA, but you get +2s in Dex, Con, and Int, as well as four arms and the Multiweapon Fighting feat. The natural climb speed is just icing on the spidery-abomination cake.

Another race perfect for stealth is the Dark Creeper (Fiend Folio p. 38). Bonuses to Hide and Move Silently, Blindsight (!), a bonus 2d6 on sneak attacks (!!!), and a supernatural ability to gain concealment a couple times per day. It also has Evasion, so you can swap out a Rogue's for an ACF. +2 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis. All that for +4 LA, and no RHD.

And as Ernir mentioned, Tibbits are barrels of fun for stealth builds.