Crit Monkey

[zephyrskye]

So I've been coming up with this for a while. I've been using other people's ideas and some of my own, but in the end, it leads to someone who crits on a 5. Now it does use a third party book (The AEG Source Mercenary book) for some of the weapon qualities.

I put it in an excel file for everything.
The books I used are the AEG Source Mercenary Book, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, Players Handbook, Tome of Battle, and Book of Vile Darkness.

The classes and levels are Warblade 3/Fighter 9/ Disciple of Dispater 8.

The feats are Disciple of Darkness, Combat Expertise, Power Attack (to become a disciple of dispater) Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Light Mace), Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Lightning Mace, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, and Two Weapon Defense.

The two weapons he has are Serrated Masterwork Laminated Steel Aptitude Scimitar +1. (They do cost 8545 each, but hey) Serrated gives one more number in your crit range so a serrated scimitar gets a crit on 17-20. Laminated Steel adds the multiplier by one, so it crits at x3 instead of x2. Then masterwork is self explanatory. Aptitude makes it so feats and abilities that require other weapons also apply to the weapon you have enchanted, so weapon focus light mace and lightning mace work for them.

So he basically gets critical threat on a 5, gets another attack for each attack he rolled critical threat on, gets +1 attack and damage for each crit he rolled and attacks 7 times for a full round attack. And just to be safe, there are maneuvers to make it so you can move as a swift action so you can make a full attack, and some maneuvers that make it so you make 2 attacks even if you have to move.

Here's the link for what to use when. http://www.2shared.com/file/RDnolvbs/Crit_Monkey.html

[Lightlawbliss]

please tell me you are making this just for the fun of it. any dm that would allow all those books is going to be throwing crit immune stuff at this guy left and right, If for nothing more then reminding you what crit monger builds aren't good for.

[zephyrskye]

Of course I am. I wanted to see how much of a broken character I could build.

[Grayson01]

Can you show me the math on how you brought it down to a 5. Not that I don't believe you but wann know how you did it.

[Verditude]

Scimitars crit on an 18. Serrated brings it to 17. Improved Critical doubles it to 13. Disciple of Dispater doubles it again to 5, in a way that specifically stacks with (the 3.0 version of) improved critical.

[Splendor]

Not sure how you got a 5; 17-20 tripled would be 9-20 and Disciple of Dispater would lower it to 7-20.... With normal wizards of the coasts books you can get it to 10.

5th Lv Fighter
7th Lv Weapon Master
8th Lv Disciple of Dispater

18-20 x2 - Falchion
15-20 x2 - Imp Critical Falchion
13-20 x2 - Ki Critical (Weapon Master)
10-20 x2 - Iron Power (Disciple of Dispater)
-- Weapon master also allows you to increase the multiple to x3 3/day
-- A DM may allow Imp Critical to stack with Keen (even when the rules say it doesn't) this would lower the crit to 7-20 x2

[Verditude]

Not sure how you got a 5; 17-20 tripled would be 9-20 and Disciple of Dispater would lower it to 7-20

DoD 8 triples threat range; combined with Improved Critical you end up quadrupling the 17-20 range.

[zephyrskye]

With normal wizards books, you can get it to a 9.
And with Laminated Steel enhancement, you can get the crit to x3 anyways. (Once again though, not core rulebooks. It's that third party stuff there.)
And the reason I did warblade was to help confirm crits and to spike damage. (Blood in the Water Stance)

But the math: 17-20 is 4 numbers that crit (normally it's 18-20, but serrated gives it an extra 1). Triple that with Disciple of Dispater. That's 12 numbers that crit. Add an extra 4 because of Improved Critical. That's 16 numbers that crit. So counting from 20 down to 1, the 16th number is 5. Meaning 5-20 crits.

[Thurbane]

If you can get Mythic Examplar in there, you can increase your crit range by one for a limited time each day.

[cerin616]

I mean, since you need to "hit" to get a crit threat I would make sure to add in stuff that boosts your attack a billion.

Add in arcane duelist and one level of wizard (or be a man and take levels in duskblade)

now you can use true strike, and you can reduce your weapon damage to increase your hit chance.

[zephyrskye]

Rolling threat doesn't have to hit. If you don't hit with it, you just make another attack (lightning mace). And for each crit you make it starts stacking +1 to hit and to damage each crit (Blood in the Water stance)... so damage and to hit will eventually spike ridiculously high.

[Irk]

Unfortunately, this combo doesn't completely function.

Improved critical does not stack with any other effect that grants an increased threat range, unless there is a specific exception, such as that granted by disciple of dispater.

Laminated does stack, as it does not expand the threat range, however, serrated does not stack with improved critical.

the best crit range is 7-20/x3
with fighter 4/dervish 1/ warblade 1/DoD 8/OA Kensai 7
dervish makes scimitars light, aptitude you already explained, take lightning maces and roundabout kick to get two attacks on a threat. OA kensai gives you +2 stacking crit range. pretty decent build

if improved critical did not have that subtext, consider this:

1. use versatile unarmed strike and aptitude to turn your scimitars into bludgeoning weapons
2. acquire laminated serrated scimitars
3. impact, unlike keen, was not errata'd, and therefore stacks with the laminated bringing it down to 13-20
4. improved critical (which stacks in this scenario, but not in reality): 9-20
5. DoD 8: 1-20

in addition, the 3.5 keen spell puts a blanket ban on stacking critical threat expanders (again, unless there is an exception, the only three I know of being OA kensai, DoD, and mythic exemplar)

so it's a cool idea, but unfortunately does nit work the way it should.

[Vedhin]

Lets see... the best I can do is 3-20. Which actually, is rather awesome.

The build is something like Human Wilder 5/Fighter 2/Disciple of Dispater 8/Psychic Weapon Master 7. Yes, that does get into epic levels.

Feats needed are: Two-Weapon Focus, Lightning Mace, Combat Reflexes, Disciple of Darkness, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Psionic Dodge, Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus (Light Mace), and Improved Critical (Stump Knife). Yes, you can squeeze them all in, if you get Combat Reflexes from Psychic Weapon Master.

Weapon: +1 Aptitude Stump Knife made of Riedran Crysteel.

The Stump Knife is from the Arms & Equipment Guide, and has a 19-20 threat range. It changes to 17-20 if you have dealt damage to an opponent in a continuous meele. This is specifically a change in base threat range, not a doubling. Improved critical increases the range to 13-20. Disciple of Dispater gets it down to 5-20. Psychic Weapon Master adds two more, reaching 3-20.

Riedran Crysteel is needed to stack Disciple of Dispater's ability with Psychic Weapon Master's. Psychic Weapon Master is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d), and Riedran Crysteel is from the Eberron Campaign Setting.

If allowed the third party things you have, the end result would be a weapon with negative something-20/x3 criticals, which improves to x4 for 3 attacks per day.

[Melcar]

Personally I dont think that serated shoud be doubles via improved crit. It might stack, but dont double the stack!

EDIT: Disregard this post!

[Irk]

actually, stump knives don't stack with improved critical, since the stump knife effect is an effect that expands crit threat range, so that one doesn't work either.

[Vedhin]

instead of psychic weapon master, just snag weapon master (aka OA kensai) same thing, without manifesting powers, but at least not epic level

Yeah, that would proabably work better. Or we could do both at level 30ish and get 1-20/x3 threat range, all the time, with only offical books.

[Irk]

lol, that'd be great, but again, improved critical prevents the stump knife stacking, and all the other stacking, as does the blanket ban in keen edge.

[zephyrskye]

And Disciple of Dispater only works with steel or iron weapons, so the stump knife wouldn't triple the bonus. I know Riedran Crysteel is alloyed with iron, but the Disciple of Dispater specifically says iron or steel. Not something alloyed with those components. So I think you'd only get the bonus from improved critical.
And Laminated only works with slashing attacks, so unfortunately bludgeoning scimitars wouldn't work either.

And you are right about improved critical. I was reading the 3.0 version. Disciple of Dispater, however doesn't have the addendum about not stacking with anything. It just says it doesn't work with keen. So... technically you could get it to crit on a 6 instead of a 5. And with Kensei, I could get it to a 4, but it would have to be epic levels.

And the oversized two weapon fighting feat makes it so you take no penalties from wielding two normal sized weapons, instead of small one. So Dervish is unnecessary (though I kinda imagine a dervish anyways). And Looking at the arms and equipment guide has a double scimitar. Same, but costs less and needs no Dervish OR oversized two weapon fighting!

[Irk]

actually, it's a crit on a 9:
18-20
improved crit: 15-20
DoD 8: 9-20
then with kensai: 7-20

[Menzath]

When I saw this the other day I thought is would be an actual monkey

[EyethatBinds]

When I saw this the other day I thought is would be an actual monkey

Make him a Hadozee and you're golden.

[Raendyn]

I think there has been a discussion about this matter before. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161065)

[animewatcha]

Impact doesn't stack. Check magic item compendium.

[Irk]

I think there has been a discussion about this matter before. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161065)

yeah, but they had similar stacking confusions, where someone though that kukri was a 17-20 weapon.

[Irk]

Impact doesn't stack. Check magic item compendium.

yeah, you're right, I thought it wasn't errata'd. Even if it wasn't though, it wouldn't work because of the text in keen edge

[zephyrskye]

Disciple of Dispater, however doesn't have the addendum about not stacking with anything. It just says it specifically doesn't work with keen. So... technically you could get it to crit on a 6 instead of a 5.

Not a 9. A 6.

[Allanimal]

Rolling threat doesn't have to hit.

actually, it does.


Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.

even if your threat range is 5-20, you still have to hit on 5-19 in order for it to be a threat.

[Irk]

Not a 9. A 6.

it is a 9, see you started at 17-20, with laminated. However, improved critical does not stack with laminated, and even if DoD does, it doesn't matter, as one component of the stack does not.

[nolongerchaos]

The Bladed Gauntlet from Sword and Fist is 17-20, Imp. Crit takes it to 13-20, DoD 4 is 9-20, and DoD 8 makes it 5-20. And for those immune to crits, throw the prismatic enhancement from MIC on.

[zephyrskye]

Irk, I see what you are saying, but you don't have to shut everyone down with everything. You aren't always right and everyone else isn't always wrong.

NolongerChaos, that is awesome! And they are light, so no oversized two weapon fighting needed at all!

[Shalist]

Bonus points if you weaponshift (wiz/sor 1, SpC pg 237) a 'Mace of Smiting' into a 'Scimitar of Smiting' or 'Bladed Gauntlets of Smiting'...


This +3 adamantine heavy mace has a +5 enhancement bonus against constructs, and any critical hit dealt to a construct completely destroys it (no saving throw). A critical hit dealt to an outsider deals ×4 damage rather than ×2.


A weapon shift spell allows you to temporarily transform any one melee weapon into a different melee weapon. Thus, a greatclub could be transformed into a greatsword, a light pick into a morning star, or a dagger into a battleaxe. Improvised weapons and double weapons cannot be targeted or be the result of this spell.

Magic weapons transformed retain all their special abilities as long as the new form could legally have those abilities, and weapons made from special materials retain their special materials.

[Irk]

Irk, I see what you are saying, but you don't have to shut everyone down with everything. You aren't always right and everyone else isn't always wrong.

I'm really sorry about that! I honestly didn't mean to do that, but thanks for pointing it out zeph.

now I know this is TOTALLY contradictory about what I just said, but bladed gauntlet was errata'd to not be 17-20.

I feel really bad now, realizing what I'm dong. I'm really sorry, I just want to help.

here's a thread that relates to this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123219

again I'm sorry, personally, I don't think the no stacking rules should be this extreme.

thanks zeph
PS for TWF, just use scimitars and dip into dervish to make them light.

[kulosle]

Okay so here is what i suggest. That gauntlet did it get errata'd to be a 18-20 or a 19-20. If it's 18 then I think i got this. So you can use roundabout kick and lightning mace to get 2 extra attacks per crit. Then use improved crit and DoD to increase the crit range to 9. This means you crit 60% of the time. So now, theoretically, you should crit on 4 of your 7 attacks. Giving you 8 more attacks, which you should crit on 5 of them, which gives you 10 attacks, etc. Theoretical infinite attacks. So as long as you crit on half or more of your attacks during each iteration you have infinite attacks. The chance of the chain breaking will be reduced if you have more attacks or up the crit chance more.

[animewatcha]

Do keep in mind, a nat 1 ends this charade and leaves you at the mercy of the mob.

[Allanimal]

Do keep in mind, a nat 1 ends this charade and leaves you at the mercy of the mob.

Not just a natural 1. Even with the lightning mace feat, an attack roll still has to hit before it is a threat. I rarely play games where rolling a 5 assures a hit. So, yeah, you can annihilate an entire mob of mooks that are all within reach, but I don't see this being too reliable against CR appropriate enemies.

[kulosle]

Well the point is that now you just max your to hit. Instead of you to damage. an there is the afformentioned stance