Stupid Drow Trick?

[sean_hyer]

I have found a horribly broken/stupid thing you can do in DnD.


I think. I need you clever forum-goers to tell me why you can't do it.


As a Drow, there is a feat you can take (Vow of the Spider Queen). If you intentionally violate this feat, and have 12 or more hit dice, you become a Drider. This is meant to be a punishment. Oh, and the feat vanishes and never returns.

From a powergaming perspective, this basically means that a Drow may spend a feat (3 if you count the prereqs) to gain: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance 1/day
Detect Good 1/day
Detect Law 1/day
Detect Magic 1/day
Dispel Magic 1/day
Levitate 1/day
Suggestion 1/day
+4 to Hide
+4 to Move Silently
+8 to Climb
Skill Mastery in Climb (can always take 10)
Climb speed of 15 feet
Secondary Bite attack for 1d4 damage and poison
Poison (DC 13 + Con modifier, damage 1d6 Str / 1d6 Str)
+4 Str
+4 Dex
+6 Con
+4 Int
+6 Wis
+6 Cha
Natural Armor 6
Large size
And, last but not least, 6 Aberration hit dice (d8 hit die, 3/4 BAB, good will saves)...
Which probably stacks with Drow HD for Spell Resistance...
And has full casting progression for Sorcerer... or Wizard... or Cleric.

I mean, sure, you turn into a gargantuan part-spider abhuman monstrosity, permanently earn the enmity of Lolth and all Drow, etc. But what self-respecting powergamer would let that stop them?

[Spuddles]

Well, instantly becoming an ECL 22 character may or may not be very helpful....

[Karnith]

Two things come to mind. First, I believe that becoming a drider overrides whatever the creature may have been before, rather than adding a bunch of stuff to your character. Second, it's LA +4 in addition to the HD, so even if you do simply add Drider stats to your character, it's probably going to be a good deal worse than just getting more class levels (though faster, in all likelihood). On further thought, shenanigans abound if you get to add stats rather than just becoming a drider.

[Spuddles]

Two things come to mind. First, I believe that becoming a drider overrides whatever the creature may have been before, rather than adding a bunch of stuff to your character. Second, it's LA +4 in addition to the HD, so even if you do simply add Drider stats to your character, it's probably going to be a good deal worse than just getting more class levels (though faster, in all likelihood).

Well, it's actually a pretty cool way to go from having 12 levels of wizard to having 18 levels of wizard. That can actually be extremely powerful in a game if the DM doesn't scale up all the encounters, and even then, you now have 9ths, like Shapechange and Genesis.

It's also a pretty cool, non Pazuzu , method of getting a Wish in case you need to kill a Tarrasque or something.

[Karnith]

Well, it's actually a pretty cool way to go from having 12 levels of wizard to having 18 levels of wizard. That can actually be extremely powerful in a game if the DM doesn't scale up all the encounters, and even then, you now have 9ths, like Shapechange and Genesis.

It's also a pretty cool, non Pazuzu , method of getting a Wish in case you need to kill a Tarrasque or something.
That's true (you can also use level drain shenanigans to boost casting without the RHD, I think), but I am fairly certain that becoming a Drider overwrites your stats, rather than adding to them. Of course, I don't actually own DotU, so it'd depend on the feat's wording (and that of any additional rules pertaining to the vow).

[Spuddles]

I just went through the whole book, and cannot find anything that says what happens to a creature's abilities upon being turned into a Drider. The only thing I can find that suggests such a thing may occur is the Test of Doubt:

The Test of Doubt:
The drow is stripped of many, or even all, of her powers, including her racial abilities and spellcasting (both arcane and divine). This degradation can even include the sudden acquisition of negative levels. In a few instances, the drow is turned into a drider or other creature, as though she had already failed a test. The drow must not only survive, but thrive in her weakened state—often for days, weeks, or longer—without losing faith in Lolth. Only the most powerful and highly placed drow suffer this test, and those who pass are the stronger for it. (Any levels a drow gains to make up for her newfound vulnerabilities—for instance, a cleric stripped of her magic who gains several levels of rogue before her powers return—do not count against her for the purpose of multi-classing penalties.)

[sean_hyer]

That I think is an either/or clause, not an in addition to.

Although clerics would need to find a new deity, since Drow wuld obviously no longer grant spells.

Oh, and you need turn undead, so wizard/sorcerers would probably only get 5 levels unless there is another trick I've missed.

[Karnith]

I just went through the whole book, and cannot find anything that says what happens to a creature's abilities upon being turned into a Drider.
Per the Monster Manual, Drow who fail Lolth's test at 6th level become Driders. They get Drider stats instead of whatever they may have had before, hence why Driders have 6 RHD, why their SLAs have CL 6, and why they cast spells as though they were 6th-level casters.

This is a different case, though, and different rules might well apply, but the default for Driders (so far as I know) is that they lose their previous abilities.

[sean_hyer]

Well, it seemed like a nifty idea. No DM in their right mind would allow it, of course, but just from a rules perspective.

Thanks for your quick responses.