Could Malack still be alive?

[coineineagh]

Malack was really caught off guard. Naturally there are few enemies with the know-how to pose a threat to a vampire over the years, but I'm shocked that this centuries-old undead let the situation get the better of him. :smallconfused:Clearly he must have left the strategic considerations to Tarquin.

Could Malack be in his gaseous form (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) as a ruse to convince Nale he's dead? The illustrations of his gaseous form and 'death' are somewhat different, but not enough to say conclusively. Unless Rich would care to dispel this myth, it will remain a mystery for a long time.

Letting the opponent think he's won is an excellent diversion strategy, and I wouldn't be surprised if Malack learned this tactic from Tarquin. Just a silly what-if. But who knows...:smallwink:

[The Giant]

No..........

[FujinAkari]

No. Malack is dead, no "un" prefixes involved. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15711790&postcount=7)

Edit: Rich! No undoing the labor of linking to your post by making another post! Cheater :P

[RMS Oceanic]

When he gassed up in his fight with Durkon, his possessions went with him. Notice they've stayed here. He's dust.

Also Rich confirmed he's dead dead.

Giantsaged!

[Morquard]

Unlikely. Vampire in D&D (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)

If they go to 0 or lower HPs they turn gaseous, but if they're exposed to the sun they're "utterly destroyed".
It's one of the very few ways to finally killt hem

Edit: Wow ninja's by a lot of people, including the Giant

[Diadem]

I was confused as heck about why he was dead for good, until I reread the rules and discovered that vampires are destroyed when exposed to the sun, they don't go gaseous like normal.

But the fight went way too fast for my liking. Is that really realistic? I've read estimates of Malack's effective level that put him above Xykon (though much less powerful, because, well, epic). Surely such an incredibly powerful, and prepared, being shouldn't be so easy to kill.

Malack isn't as crazy-prepared as Tarquin, but still plans for most contingencies. It seems very unrealistic that he just dies because he lost his staff. Why was he not carrying back-up items? Why didn't he run after his staff himself, while ordering Durkon to distract the LG? Why didn't he just turn gaseous before being destroyed?

I'm fine with some of those answers being "because he didn't think of it". But it seems out of character for him to 1) turn his back on the LG 2) be completely unprepared for a simple dispel and 3) just stand there and take the beating.

[Katuko]

But the fight went way too fast for my liking. Is that really realistic? I've read estimates of Malack's effective level that put him above Xykon (though much less powerful, because, well, epic). Surely such an incredibly powerful, and prepared, being shouldn't be so easy to kill.

Malack isn't as crazy-prepared as Tarquin, but still plans for most contingencies. It seems very unrealistic that he just dies because he lost his staff. Why was he not carrying back-up items? Why didn't he run after his staff himself, while ordering Durkon to distract the LG? Why didn't he just turn gaseous before being destroyed?

The rules state:

Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape.

Nale swiped the staff as his surprise attack, then Z dispelled Malack's protection spell. From the fight with Durkon we know that Malack was rather low-level as far as cleric spells go.

Now, Malack immediately starts burning in the sunlight, but his robes seems to give him one extra round where he moves and then attacks. He sends Durkon running for the staff (possibly to prevent him from being dispelled as well) and attempts to slay a wounded Nale.

Disoriented, it's about all he could think to do. Durkon wouldn't have been able to fight as effectively as a thrall without direct orders, me thinks. In any case, it boils down to "Malack was disoriented and had about 5 seconds before he would be vaporized".

[King of Nowhere]

But the fight went way too fast for my liking. Is that really realistic? I've read estimates of Malack's effective level that put him above Xykon (though much less powerful, because, well, epic). Surely such an incredibly powerful, and prepared, being shouldn't be so easy to kill.

Malack isn't as crazy-prepared as Tarquin, but still plans for most contingencies. It seems very unrealistic that he just dies because he lost his staff. Why was he not carrying back-up items? Why didn't he run after his staff himself, while ordering Durkon to distract the LG? Why didn't he just turn gaseous before being destroyed?

I'm fine with some of those answers being "because he didn't think of it". But it seems out of character for him to 1) turn his back on the LG 2) be completely unprepared for a simple dispel and 3) just stand there and take the beating.

He wasn't unprotected, he had plenty of contingencies. Namely, he prepares a second copy of the spell every day, and has more stored in the staff. In the worst case, his robe appears to give him some more time, and he can take cover.
This time, his backup spell slot was used for durkon, he was disarmed of his staff, and there was no cover around.

It was the single best case scenario for nale.

[veti]

But the fight went way too fast for my liking. Is that really realistic? I've read estimates of Malack's effective level that put him above Xykon (though much less powerful, because, well, epic). Surely such an incredibly powerful, and prepared, being shouldn't be so easy to kill.

Nale saw a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and he grabbed it. And he did it well. I never thought I'd catch myself thinking "Go Nale!", but I did today.


Malack isn't as crazy-prepared as Tarquin, but still plans for most contingencies. It seems very unrealistic that he just dies because he lost his staff. Why was he not carrying back-up items? Why didn't he run after his staff himself, while ordering Durkon to distract the LG? Why didn't he just turn gaseous before being destroyed?

The staff was the backup item. And he can't turn gaseous, because sunlight, and if you think about it, even if he could it wouldn't help because the gas would still be exposed to sunlight.

No, what we've just seen is a beautiful lesson in why 'being a vampire' isn't the kick-ass superbuff that it's sometimes seen as. It really does have its downsides. If you insist on trying to ignore them with homebrewed spells and items, then you take your chances.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

NO. He's utterly destroyed: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

[Blas_de_Lezo]

I was confused as heck about why he was dead for good, until I reread the rules and discovered that vampires are destroyed when exposed to the sun, they don't go gaseous like normal.

But the fight went way too fast for my liking. Is that really realistic? I've read estimates of Malack's effective level that put him above Xykon (though much less powerful, because, well, epic). Surely such an incredibly powerful, and prepared, being shouldn't be so easy to kill.

Malack isn't as crazy-prepared as Tarquin, but still plans for most contingencies. It seems very unrealistic that he just dies because he lost his staff. Why was he not carrying back-up items? Why didn't he run after his staff himself, while ordering Durkon to distract the LG? Why didn't he just turn gaseous before being destroyed?

I'm fine with some of those answers being "because he didn't think of it". But it seems out of character for him to 1) turn his back on the LG 2) be completely unprepared for a simple dispel and 3) just stand there and take the beating.

He WAS very prepared. Most of the vampires don't have a Protection from Daylight spell. But aside from that, he prepares it TWICE A DAY, and he has it stored in his staff.

Also, daylight completely destroys a vampire in just two rounds, giving him just ONE chance: a single move action. Malack has managed to extend this time a brief: it looks that he takes one standard action. Maybe his cloak? So, it was enough planning... he just was kicked by Nale because he understimated him (and many of the playgrounders).

[davidbofinger]

I'm inclined to agree Malack was under-prepared, considering it was such an obvious way to die. Compare with Redcloak when he was about to be killed by O-Chul. But it's been a while since he was an adventurer. Maybe decades spent sitting on his balcony sipping tea had blunted his edge just a little.

[exenia]

It was a quick move on Nale's part, but I'm thinking it was also successful because Malack was still busy thinking about getting out of the desert and dealing with Durkula. Sure, he'd turn on Nale back at the palace, but that's for later.

Also, I was expecting Nale to be taking a healing potion in panel 2, didn't even pay attention to his remaining injuries until he tossed the staff. I'd imagine Malack didn't notice it either, and since his best attack is the type Nale just canceled, he was completely out of luck.

How many protection from daylight spells would be ideal to prepare anyway? Three? Four? At some point he's cutting into other useful spells, and Z could very well have more dispels ready. Malack wasn't terribly unprepared, he just got shut down extremely quick.

[elros]

Malack underestimated Nale, pure and simple. It's easy to forget that Nale has a lot of levels because they are spread across three classes, and he is able to put together complex plans (although they are often too complex).

In this case, Nale planned for over a decade and it actually worked! Curious to see how Tarquin reacts to all of it.

BTW, huge props to the Giant for pointing out the Malack's equipment turned gaseous when he was alive, but didn't when he was destroyed. It's just like when Roy imagined the incorrect eye was damaged during the illusion with Redcloak. Good stuff.

[Darkroot]

Some people seem to be wondering why Malack didn't go after the staff himself.

In panel 3, he's trying to find shelter, which is why he didn't go after it right away. And by the time he realises he can't, Nale has grabbed onto his cloak (has him grappled, if you like rules justifications for things) so that he can't run away.

[Xelbiuj]

lol only if we could get Rich to answer other questions so definitively.

[F.Harr]

Malack is killed by being short a spell from having shown some small mercy to his friend.



It's sad.

But I'm not unhappy. Dude was going to kill thousands.

[SowZ]

Malack was attacked by two intelligent people with a plan when he was unprepared and in the worst terrain possible, (a desert in the middle of the day.) The attackers knew Malack's weaknesses and knew all of his contingencies, allowing them to plan well. One of the attackers was a multiclassed character. One was a straight wizard. Is it likely both had as many or more class levels than him.

If anything, Malack surviving would have been a shock. Malack being killed in this scenario does not indicate lack of intelligence on his part and it is not a one in a hundred chance. Malack was caught off guard and ambushed by a very solid plan, plain and simple. He died. Anyone could have died in similar circumstances.

(Similar circumstances not meaning the sun, but meaning outnumbered and ambushed in a disadvantageous environment by nearly equivalent foes.)

[SavageWombat]

lol only if we could get Rich to answer other questions so definitively.

I propose Rich make a list of one-word or short-phrase answers for us. Of course, assigning those answers to questions would be our responsibility.