Druid (12): Spending 88,000GP start gold and 1 feat to go

[AmbientRaven]

Hi Guys,
me and a friend are joining a campaign at level 12. I have my character sorted but they asked me to post up here (their PC is dead atm, being fixed but first game is tomorrow) for recommended items.
So far this is the list we have come up with together

Items
88,000gp
Mithril Full-Plate Armour (Wildling Clasp) 14,500GP (+8AC)
Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 16,000GP
Pearl of Speech (common) 600gp (as this is absorbed into you as Human form, will it affect animal form, as its absorbed into you, not techincally equipped)
Peripat of Wisdom +4 (Wildling Clasp) 20,000GP
Gold Remaining: 36,900GP

Option2:
Monks belt (Wildling Clasp) 17,000GP (+6ac)
Pearl of Speech (common) 600gp
Peripat of Wisdom +4 (Wildling Clasp) 20,000GP
Gold Renaming: 50,400GP

How does this list look so far? playing a buff and go bear druid

Feats include:
1: Improved Initiative, Companion Spellbond
3: Improved Natural Attack (claw)
6: Natural Spell
9: - Extend Spell
12: - ???? (Extend spell maybe?)

[hymer]

Some thoughts: Correct me if I'm wrong, but metal armour costs you your druid powers for 24 hours, so I wouldn't go with the mithral armour. As for the pearl of speech, if your DM allows it, don't equip it - it takes up the same slot as your periapt of wisdom. Before you turn into your shape for the day, you can give it to a friend, and have him help you equip/gulp it. Avoids all the mess. But ask your DM what happens to spell memorized when your wisdom drops 4 points. May not be worth it.
You seem to be going for a shapeshifting focus, but Spell Focus + Augment Summoning could be worth it. Multi-attack may well be worth a feat depending on what you intend to shapeshift into.
Investing in some rods of metamagic could free up your Extend feat. Quicken Spell is pretty good for level 12 regardless.

[eggynack]

Well, my first suggestion is skipping the part of your magic item list where you have two sets of options. The DMG rules for putting multiple enchantments on a single item aren't too problematic, so you can just stick a monk's belt and a belt of battle on the same belt. As hymer, I'd advise against armor in favor of the monk's belt, and would get the effect of both with luminous armor from BoED. You have to be good for that one, so consider being good.

Anyway, as is usual, I suggest the mighty power of summoning feats. Augment summoning is a classic, and depending on book access, you can pick up ashbound, greenbound, or rashemi elemental summoning. Possibly ashbound with rashemi, cause that's the best setup at your level. You honestly have plenty of room for the setup, because improved initiative and INA are unnecessary and in the latter case, possibly not available due to your not "always a bear" status. You definitely can't pick that up at three, because you don't even have wild shape at that point. Either way, for items, I'ma point you towards the raiment of the beast from Complete Champion. Those are classics, particularly ring of the beast.

Edit: @ hymer: The thing about mithral armor is accurate, but the rest of your post has a couple of inaccuracies. You haven't considered wilding clasps, which are clearly on the item list already. That gets rid of the periapt issue as well. Further, your other claims about the periapt are also incorrect. A pearl of speech takes up the face slot, while the periapt takes up the head or throat slot. Moreover, due to +wisdom items having a place on the chart for adding/improving common item effects, having a +wisdom item on a slot that's already been designated carries no premium.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You're not allowed metal armor, so you'd have to make it sentira (SoS).
It's not really worth the money unless your evil though because you can just cast Greater Luminous Armor to get +8 armor AC and still wear a monks belt.

If you have a cleric and you want to go with armor you should get:
Leafweave Leather Scale +1 - 1935gp +15000gp for wild or +4000 for Wilding Clasp if that's allowed at your table.
Bronzewood Dastana +1 - 2425gp + 4000gp for Wilding Clasp
Heavy Darkwood Shield +1 - 1257gp + 15000gp Wild
Metamagic Rod, Chain Spell, lesser - 14000gp
------------------------------------------
53617gp

Have the cleric cast a chained Magic Vestment on everyones armor and you get:
+6 armor, +4 dastana, +4 shield for +14 AC or +20 AC if he can boost his CL to 20 (via Bead of Karma/Ankh of Ascension).
If there is no cleric save your money and get a monks belt & cast luminous armor.

With the leftover money i'd get a Handy Haversack (2000gp), Pearl of Speech (600gp), Periapt of Wisdom +4 with Wilding Clasp (20000gp),
a wand of Lesser Vigor (750gp).
If you get a Wilding Clasp for your armor instead of the Wild enhancement you can spend the rest on a Mantle of the Beast (18000gp) for swift action WS and automatic Magic Fang on all your natural weapons.

For your 12th level feat consider either Dragon Wild Shape (Drac) or Rashemi Elemental Summoning (UE).
I would take Companion Spellbond and Rapid Spell at first level, Extend Spell at third, Natural Spell at 6th, RES at 9th and DWS at 12th.

[Khedrac]

Always buy some spare Wildling Clasps - that way if you find a neat item you can equip it straight off.

The Pearl of Speech is face slot so does not conflict with the Periapt of Wisdom which is neck slot. That said if you can either stack item powers (DM permitting) or get the wisdom into a different slot do so. Melee druids tend to want an Amulet of Health...

A Cloak of Resistance is always worth it (more animals can wear cloaks than vests).
Similarly a Ring of Deflection for some extra AC.
And an ioun stone - can't rememebr which - gives 1 AC and as it is not work it does nto get absorbed.

Think about some Pearls of Power. Particulalry 2nd for putting up more Barkskins, but being able to re-buff Greater Magic Fang if you eat a dispel can be useful.

[AmbientRaven]

So cutting it back down to
Monk's Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 29,000GP
Peripat of Wisdom +4 (Wildling Clasp) 20,000GP
Ring of protection +2 8,000GP
Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000GP

What other items could be worth taking? i have 27,000GP left to spend at the moment.

As to the feats I was considering swapping to a Lesser Aaismar to gain the extra +2wis instead of the extra feat

Thanks for the help so far guys this is great

[eggynack]

The Pearl of Speech is Face slot so does not conflict with the Periapt of Wisdom which si neck slot. That said if you can either stack item powers (DM permitting) or get the wisdom into a different slot do so. Melee drudis tend to want an Amulet of Health...
Stacking powers isn't really a DM permitting sort of thing, outside of houserules. The rules for sticking multiple abilities aren't like the DMG item creation guidelines. They're firm and set in stone. This is doubly true in this case, where both abilities fall under common effects. He can put a periapt of wisdom and an amulet of health on the same item, and do so for no premium above the normal cost of the effects. I recommend doing this as much as possible, because if you put all of your abilities on as few items as possible, you don't have to pay as much for wilding clasps. Granted, the cost of a wilding clasp is sometimes less than the cost of having two items in one, but this isn't one of those times, and the combo method is a method that should always be considered.

[hymer]

@ eggynack: Thanks. I kinda took wilding clasps for granted, but I messed up the slot for the pearl of speech. As for the stacking of enchantments, if the OP can get those, he should, of course. And while he's at it, he should get a con boost in the same manner.

@ AmbientRaven: As mentioned above, you should be boosting your con as well, in some manner. Rods of Metamagic (Extend, lesser) are only 3000gp. I'd get one or two of those for your buff spells. At your level it goes perfectly with Luminous Armor.

[Killer Angel]

So cutting it back down to
Monk's Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 29,000GP
Peripat of Wisdom +4 (Wildling Clasp) 20,000GP
Ring of protection +2 8,000GP
Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000GP

What other items could be worth taking? i have 27,000GP left to spend at the moment.

a couple of Pearls of power could be a good choice...

[eggynack]

Monk's Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 29,000GP

Unlike common item effects, which don't have a premium, most item effects do have a premium. The relevant rules are hereabouts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities). The effect of that rule is that placing additional enchantments on an item increases the cost of the less expensive enchantment by 50%. In this case, that would make the cost of the whole shebang 35,000 GP, with the wilding clasp included in the price. You should consider Khedrac's suggestion of tying an amulet of health onto the periapt, consider maintaining the pearl of speech if it's an effect you want, and further consider the complete champion items. I believe that the mantle of the beast, which allows you to wild shape as a swift action, may be relevant to your needs. Those items are especially cool because they don't take a wilding clasp to work, and that makes sticking extra enhancements on them especially lucrative.

[AmbientRaven]

Ok, so how does this look?
Monk's Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 35,000
Peripat of Wisdom +4 Constitution +2 (Wildling Clasp) 26,000GP
Ring of protection +2 8,000GP
Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000GP
Rods of Metamagic (Extend, lesser) 3,000GP

12k (3 Wildling Clasp?)

[Norin]

I love my Anklet of Translocation. Get one or more.

Very nice for that moment you just need to move asap.

[eggynack]

What's your book access look like? I still think that a mantle of the beast could help out a lot, and you could toss that where some of your common enchantments and extra wilding clasps are currently. As Norin notes, anklets of translocation are pretty sweet as well, so that might be a worthwhile pickup. Otherwise, the list seems fairly solid and standard. It might be worth picking up an amulet of mighty fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists), if you're really pushing the whole bear thing.

[AmbientRaven]

"Any books will be allowed, save for BoED, BoVD, Tome of Battle, and any of the psionic books."

Though anything that is not core requires approval

[eggynack]

Ah. Then the mantle of the beast is fair game, and the luminous armor is not. All the more reason to pursue the power of swift action wild shapes then. Also, if you ever have extra money left over, you may want to consider golden desert honey from Complete Mage. Even if you're not all about summoning, being able to pull that off as a standard every now and then is cool beans.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The Cloak of Resistance and Ring of Protection are wasted money imo since you can get better saves and deflection AC from Superior Resistance(Savage Species) and Halo of Sand (Sandstorm).

If you have the money to spare you could get a Bead of Karma (SRD, 20000gp) and/or Ankh of Ascension (MIC, 9000gp).
Boosting your CL by up to 8 can be very helpful.

[AmbientRaven]

Ah. Then the mantle of the beast is fair game, and the luminous armor is not. All the more reason to pursue the power of swift action wild shapes then. Also, if you ever have extra money left over, you may want to consider golden desert honey from Complete Mage. Even if you're not all about summoning, being able to pull that off as a standard every now and then is cool beans.

Thanks!
I am having trouble finding their info online as I do not have those books myself

[Norin]

Thanks!
I am having trouble finding their info online as I do not have those books myself

Mantle of the beast is in Complete champ.

It's a shoulder slot item (cloak) that costs 18k and gives you +1 enh bonus to attack/damage rolls while in wildshape and lets you wildshape as swift instead of standard action.

The honey costs 300gp per and is a sort of extra component you use when casting summons with 1rd casting time. It lowers the cast time to standard action instead.

[Khedrac]

Ok, so how does this look?
Monk's Belt of Battle (Wildling Clasp) 35,000
Peripat of Wisdom +4 Constitution +2 (Wildling Clasp) 26,000GP
Ring of protection +2 8,000GP
Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000GP
Rods of Metamagic (Extend, lesser) 3,000GP

12k (3 Wildling Clasp?)

The Ring and Claok need Wilding Clasps if you want to use them in all forms. Rememebr EVERY body slot item needs a clasp (possible exception Pearl of Speech) if you want it always working. You may also want to Wilding Clasp your haversack (especially if it is "handy").

The metamagic rod of extend - what do you plan to use it for? Remember it won't be accessible while you are wildshaped as it will be merged and non-functional. If it is for things like Barkskin which you cast before you assume wild form then fair enough.

My druid took Dragon Wildshape (the non-epic form), finding her in non-wildspape form is very rare as she can keep them up all day switching from one to another.

[AmbientRaven]

Rod is for Barkskin, Enrage Animal And possibly Bears endurance/Bulls Strength depending on what is needed pre-shifting

The cloak looks great. If i drop the Ring and Cloak and get that cloak+clasp it (is clasp required? some are saying yes, some no) i'll have 2k left

[Rebel7284]

Ring of the Beast is also nice if you do summoning at all. :)

[Khedrac]

I think you are slightly confused on magic items slots and wildshape forms.

Wildshape states that when you wildshape all carried/worn equipment gets melded into your new form and becomes non-functional.

What a Wilding clasp does is to allow the item to not meld and remain functional if the form you assume has the relevant body slot. For example a bear has a shoulder slot so can wear a cloak, but a snake does not have feet slots or arm slots so cannot use gloves or boots. A bear can wear gloves but don't try to make claw attacks while wearing them...

If you don an item after you wildshape then it does not meld, what is less clear is what happens when you "unmeld" - do carried items meld until you resume their form or fall off?

[AmbientRaven]

I think you are slightly confused on magic items slots and wildshape forms.

Wildshape states that when you wildshape all carried/worn equipment gets melded into your new form and becomes non-functional.

What a Wilding clasp does is to allow the item to not meld and remain functional if the form you assume has the relevant body slot. For example a bear has a shoulder slot so can wear a cloak, but a snake does not have feet slots or arm slots so cannot use gloves or boots. A bear can wear gloves but don't try to make claw attacks while wearing them...

If you don an item after you wildshape then it does not meld, what is less clear is what happens when you "unmeld" - do carried items meld until you resume their form or fall off?

The rod would be used pre-shifting.
Primary wildshape will be a bear or a wolf or a flying creature for RP purposes.
Would a belt remain equipped to a bear? If so the belt, cape and peripat should all be acceptable in bear form

[Norin]

A bear has a waist, so yeah.

[Khedrac]

The rod would be used pre-shifting.
Primary wildshape will be a bear or a wolf or a flying creature for RP purposes.
Would a belt remain equipped to a bear? If so the belt, cape and periapt should all be acceptable in bear form
Yes - but the point is if you put a belt on with a clasp and shift into a bear then it merges. It does not matter that it has a belt slot.
Actually you listed a Wilding Clasp for the belt so the belt is fine. It's the cloak and ring - no Wilding Clasps = no item when shifted unless you put them on after...

[eggynack]

Yes - but the point is if you put a belt on with a clasp and shift into a bear then it merges. It does not matter that it has a belt slot.
Actually you listed a Wilding Clasp for the belt so the belt is fine. It's the cloak and ring - no Wilding Clasps = no item when shifted unless you put them on after...
A decent solution to this problem might be the aforementioned ring of the beast. It's an incredibly sweet item, which has been mentioned before, and lowers the cost of SNA's by a spell slot. More importantly for this situation, it doesn't require a wilding clasp to be used in wild shape, and ring of protection powers can be freely placed on it with the common item enhancement rules. The same goes for the +save item and the mantle of the beast, and that might be even more relevant, because there is an apparent wild shape based goal. Ultimately, the raiment of the beast solution seems like a pretty clean one, all things considered.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A decent solution to this problem might be the aforementioned ring of the beast. It's an incredibly sweet item, which has been mentioned before, and lowers the cost of SNA's by a spell slot. More importantly for this situation, it doesn't require a wilding clasp to be used in wild shape, and ring of protection powers can be freely placed on it with the common item enhancement rules. The same goes for the +save item and the mantle of the beast, and that might be even more relevant, because there is an apparent wild shape based goal. Ultimately, the raiment of the beast solution seems like a pretty clean one, all things considered.

If you're going that way there's a few more items that function in WS. The Raiment of the Stormwalker set covers feet, arms, body and one ring.

[eggynack]

If you're going that way there's a few more items that function in WS. The Raiment of the Stormwalker set covers feet, arms, body and one ring.
That definitely seems interesting. They're probably not as intrinsically useful as the beast items, so it's not necessarily going to be the best option, but if your needs match what is provided by the items, it's a possibility. The big exception is the stormfire ring, whose price that is identical to that of a wilding clasp makes it basically perfect as a conduit for common item enhancements. The cloudwalker anklets seem vastly overpriced on a druid, so I'd probably avoid that one. The other two, the bracers and robe, are in that place where they're a nice thing to have, but not really a thing that I'd go looking for. The thing I really like about the ring and mantle of the beast is that they're a thing I'd recommend, even if the items didn't inherently retain their powers in a wild shape. The armor has always seemed to be of marginal benefit to me, even after considering the set bonus, but I can see it being of value.

[sleepyphoenixx]

True enough. The Armor of the Beast has always seemed overpriced to me since by the time you can reasonably afford it the benefit is kind of moot.
Also, it's studded leather which just isn't worn all that often.
The ring is worth it for practically every druid unless you never summon. It's also cheap for it's benefit.
The cloak is a little more expensive but swift action wildshape is just so useful. The natural weapon enhancement is a nice bonus but i wouldn't buy it just for that.

[Morphie]

If I recall correctly, druids can't use studded leather armor, because it has steel/iron that violates their spiritual oaths.

I'm also playing a druid, I'm planning on going the Monk's Belt + Periapt of Wisdom-x + Bracers of Armor route and wilding clasps to keep the best items usable in Wild Shape.

On your feats you chose Improved Natural Attack (Claw) at 3rd level, as a DM I wouldn't allow it because you can only wildshape at 5th level, but if he lets you go ahead :)

[Gavinfoxx]

There's a bunch of types of armors druids can use..

various woods, leather armor with darkleaf studs, various chitin armors, shell armors, etc. etc.

How heavy do you want the armor to be?

[eggynack]

If I recall correctly, druids can't use studded leather armor, because it has steel/iron that violates their spiritual oaths.

Nah, studded armor seems fine. Despite my disparaging remarks on the item, armor of the beast is specifically studded leather armor. It's not like a message from the Gods of RAW, but it appears to be a tacit endorsement of druids in studded leather armor. I don't see any counter-evidence that shows that studded leather isn't allowed, so that's enough in my book.

[Morphie]

Nah, studded armor seems fine. Despite my disparaging remarks on the item, armor of the beast is specifically studded leather armor. It's not like a message from the Gods of RAW, but it appears to be a tacit endorsement of druids in studded leather armor. I don't see any counter-evidence that shows that studded leather isn't allowed, so that's enough in my book.

I just interpreted from what I read on the Phb: "Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. (A druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel."

I think that if studded leather was included it would be written there, but if your DM/gaming group allows it, so be it. Druids don't need armor to be awesome, anyway :smallcool:

[eggynack]

I just interpreted from what I read on the Phb: "Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. (A druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel."

I think that if studded leather was included it would be written there, but if your DM/gaming group allows it, so be it. Druids don't need armor to be awesome, anyway :smallcool:
I've actually logic'ed that logic before, but I've gotta figure that studded leather armor is just a type of leather armor, and the armor of the beast thing bears that conclusion out. My reasoning is that it essentially is written out that you get studded leather, but in a way that's open to interpretation, and external factors sway that interpretation in different directions. As is, armor of the beast is the only thing I've found that points in either direction, though I haven't looked very hard.

[Khedrac]

And the description of Armor of the Beast specifically says that it has non-metal studs so is safe for a druid to use - which also implies that regular studded leather is not.

[hymer]

But also proves that you can use studs made from something other than metal.

[Gavinfoxx]

There is wooden studded leather armor written up in D&D. I believe it is in Races of the Wild.

Also innumerable chitin armors. The best ones are in:

Races of Eberron
Stormwrack
and
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil Web Enhancement

[turbo164]

Yep, Leafweave Studded "Leather" is Races of the Wild. Studs are Darkwood instead of metal.

[Feilith]

Easy solution as this requires you to burn that feat too :smalltongue:

Buy dragonhide full plate. You can wear this because its not actually metal, so druids can wear it. But you need to burn a feat on heavy armor prof., its nasty i know buy stay with me it gets better.

Now have that full plate enchanted to be +1 wild dragon hide. Thatll keep your armor bonus while in wild shape, and in a good ac form +8 will make you nigh impossible to hit.

Edit: forgot to add magic enhancement to ac its actually +9

All in all itll cost just under 20,000gp (3600 for the armor, 16000 for the +4 magic enhancement) and one feat but your wildshapes just got a ton harder to hit.

[Gavinfoxx]

Easy solution as this requires you to burn that feat too :smalltongue:

Buy dragonhide full plate. You can wear this because its not actually metal, so druids can wear it. But you need to burn a feat on heavy armor prof., its nasty i know buy stay with me it gets better.

Now have that full plate enchanted to be +1 wild dragon hide. Thatll keep your armor bonus while in wild shape, and in a good ac form +8 will make you nigh impossible to hit.

All in all itll cost just under 20,000gp (3600 for the armor, 16000 for the +4 magic enhancement) and one feat but your wildshapes just got a ton harder to hit.


Except that there are, um, innumerable ways to get great armor that are much cheaper?

[Feilith]

Except that there are, um, innumerable ways to get great armor that are much cheaper?

But as far as im aware, theres no way to get +9 ac that stacks with all of your wild shape's AC, so itll go far. And it looks like he has the disposable income to beable to swing it

[sleepyphoenixx]

But as far as im aware, theres no way to get +9 ac that stacks with all of your wild shape's AC, so itll go far. And it looks like he has the disposable income to beable to swing it

As soon as you reach 26 Wisdom a Monks belt gives the same AC for about 3/4 the cost (Monks Belt + Wilding Clasp).
It also adds to touch AC and stacks with any spells that add armor AC in addition to any wildshape AC.
You can reasonably afford to spend 20000gp on armor by level 9.
At that point you probably already have 22-24 wisdom even before casting Owls Insight.

The only reason to go with armor (aside from fluff) is if you don't have Luminous Armor and are wearing leather scale or a wildwood chainshirt,
a dastana and a shield and having access to Magic Vestment for all 3.
It's more expensive than the monks belt option but also provides 21 AC.

You'd need 52 wisdom to pull ahead with the monks belt or 36 wisdom and Luminous Armor.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't always need more AC.
As long as you can avoid the majority of attacks from the enemies that you face more AC just isn't cost effective.
Having a monks belt and maxed wisdom is usually enough for that if you include wildshape and spells.