Resurrecting Durkon

[pendell]

Sooo, this probably isn't going to happen, but I wanted to float it for plausibility.

Assuming Durkula and the rest of the party survive all this, could Durkon be returned to true life in the following way:

1) Durkula creates a magic item of resurrection, burning the necessary XP to get it done. He knows resurrection, after all, and is the only cleric we know of who does in game world -- though there may be others.

2) Durkula allows himself to be staked.

3) Haley has Use Magic Device as a skill. She uses the newly created magic item to cast resurrection on Durkon's corpse, thus reviving Durkon as a living dwarf.

I realize this is probably not going to happen , because Durkon is already prophesied to return to Kraagor's gate while dead, but is it at least possible?

Another thought: The prophecy specifically said that Durkon would return "posthumously". That may mean "as a vampire" but could also technically mean "dead period". Could he allow himself to be staked and then carted to the high priest of Thor for a proper resurrection?

Of course, that would be a waste of that nice new staff so conveniently prepared for the undead adventurer, so that probably won't happen either -- but are either of these things at least possible within the rules?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Sylthia]

Now that Malak is dead, does Durkon regain his self awareness?

[Bird]

He knows resurrection, after all, and is the only cleric we know of who does in game world -- though there may be others.
Redcloak. :smallwink:

Seriously, I find it plausible that Durkon could come back, though we have no way of knowing at this point whether he'll want to.

[factotum]

Now that Malak is dead, does Durkon regain his self awareness?

According to RAW he is no longer enslaved now his master is dead, but whether he'll be the Durkon we knew is another matter entirely. This is what's going to be interesting about the next few strips.

[Kish]

Sooo, this probably isn't going to happen, but I wanted to float it for plausibility.
[...]
Brian P.
Yes, either of those is possible.

But I think your reasoning for thinking they won't happen is incorrect. He died. Everything he does from now on will be posthumous; everything Roy does from strip #443 on has been posthumous.

[RMS Oceanic]

If Durkon is Durkon again, I fully see him desiring to return to his previous form. However for that to guarantee to happen he needs a Cleric that is both willing and able to cast Resurrection, and from what we've seen they're not ten a penny. He could scribe a scroll of Resurrection for Haley to use, but that's not a guaranteed plan, and if she botches the roll you end up with him being dead dead and unable to help the Order. Time is of the essence right now, so I think any attempt to get his canines blunted will be put off until after the final battle.

[davidbofinger]

According to RAW he is no longer enslaved now his master is dead, but whether he'll be the Durkon we knew is another matter entirely. This is what's going to be interesting about the next few strips.

Malack kept Durkula a thrall because adjusting to becoming a vampire is stressful and confusing. So don't expect an instant transition to self-confident and independent evil.

Durkula will be like Durkon but evil. I'm not sure what that will mean. Enthusiastic cooperation with a good adventuring party, maybe not. Quietly saving the order's lives, maybe yes.

[KillianHawkeye]

There is no evidence that Durkon is capable of scribing a scroll (or of creating any other magic item), nor is there any evidence that I can recall that Haley has ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.

[martianmister]

But I think your reasoning for thinking they won't happen is incorrect. He died. Everything he does from now on will be posthumous; everything Roy does from strip #443 on has been posthumous.

Roy and Durkon doesn't think so. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html)

[twa_pehs]

Its going to be Belkar that resurrects Durkon, I see no other way. From a dramatic and plot related point of view its pretty much perfect. We already know from an early strip that if V casts owls wisdom on Belkar he can cast cleric scrolls. We also know from the IFCC that Durkon carried scrolls of resurrection on him when he was on the boat with Hinjo and we have no reason to believe he doesn't still have them.

Obviously there is a lot that needs resolved and put into place before this can happen. The main objection will be that Durkon can only return home posthumously. Well he has died, anything he does now resurrected or not will be posthumous.

[Kish]

We already know from an early strip that if V casts owls wisdom on Belkar he can cast cleric scrolls.

No, we don't. We know that if Vaarsuvius casts Owl's Wisdom on Belkar Belkar can cast scrolls of spells which are on the ranger class spell list, which doesn't include Resurrection.

[twa_pehs]

No, we don't. We know that if Vaarsuvius casts Owl's Wisdom of Belkar Belkar can cast scrolls of spells which are on the ranger class spell list, which doesn't include Resurrection.

Ah, darn it, you're right. That would have been a quite an interesting dynamic between Durkon and Belkar too. One of these days I will manage to make a prediction that doesn't get shot down in flames within 2 minutes :smallamused:

[JBiddles]

It's an overall theme of OotS that species does not an alignment make. Right-Eye was a True Neutral goblin. Alignment is a conscious thing in OotS - Durkon just turning evil due to events outside his own control would make "alignment" meaningless, even if you could justify Evil Durkon being the same person as the living Durkon. I find it more probable that either Durkula is a completely different being - an evil spirit who perhaps retains Durkon's memories and maybe some of his loyalties - or is the same consciousness as the living Durkon, but with a hunger for blood and possibly forsaken by Thor. That latter option would be clichéd, but then when has Durkon not been? It would be rather darkly humorous if Durkon could not escape being generic, even in death.

[orrion]

It's an overall theme of OotS that species does not an alignment make. Right-Eye was a True Neutral goblin. Alignment is a conscious thing in OotS - Durkon just turning evil due to events outside his own control would make "alignment" meaningless, even if you could justify Evil Durkon being the same person as the living Durkon. I find it more probable that either Durkula is a completely different being - an evil spirit who perhaps retains Durkon's memories and maybe some of his loyalties - or is the same consciousness as the living Durkon, but with a hunger for blood and possibly forsaken by Thor. That latter option would be clichéd, but then when has Durkon not been? It would be rather darkly humorous if Durkon could not escape being generic, even in death.

Wait, how is the evil spirit who retains memories less cliched? Buffyverse says hello.

[pendell]

It's an overall theme of OotS that species does not an alignment make. Right-Eye was a True Neutral goblin. Alignment is a conscious thing in OotS - Durkon just turning evil due to events outside his own control would make "alignment" meaningless, even if you could justify Evil Durkon being the same person as the living Durkon. I find it more probable that either Durkula is a completely different being - an evil spirit who perhaps retains Durkon's memories and maybe some of his loyalties - or is the same consciousness as the living Durkon, but with a hunger for blood and possibly forsaken by Thor. That latter option would be clichéd, but then when has Durkon not been? It would be rather darkly humorous if Durkon could not escape being generic, even in death.

Species, yes, but my reading of the Giant's previous work is that he believed that living flesh-and-blood beings should have flexible alignment and 'always' evil should be left to outsiders or undead or what not.

A vampire is a fundamentally different kind of creature from a goblin or an elf , being empowered by negative energy and having a kind of unlife which is quite different from the normal processes.

Doesn't mean that Durkula necessarily HAS to be evil. But it is going to be much, much harder to maintain any kind of good alignment when your very being is suffused with raw dark magic.

So, no. Durkon was a dwarf and now he's a predator. I don't think we're going to get the old Durkon back just with fangs, but it doesn't necessarily follow from this that he's going to be a villain or a nemesis or a serial killer.

Malack was going to teach him how to get used to his new unlife, but now Durkon has to learn on his own. Can you say "identity crisis"?

Realistically, though, it is quite probable that Durkon will want to return to his normal existence, which requires a staking and a resurrection. Continuing to adventure as a vampire with Roy and the rest of the team -- well, I think that's going to be extremely difficult. I'm not even sure he would want to.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[ChristianSt]

I realize this is probably not going to happen , because Durkon is already prophesied to return to Kraagor's gate while dead, but is it at least possible?
That is not true. We only know that Durkon will return home posthumously (or should we say postdwarvly?). That only requires two things in the following order:
dying
returning home
It doesn't really say that he can't come back to some sort of live. Also we don't even know that he will arrive at Kraagor's gate. I think he will (because I think the complete Order will be there), but we don't have any guarantee for it.

OtOoPCs-Spoiler: We also now that he will somehow bring death and destruction back home - but that doesn't forces him to be dead at Kraagor's gate either.

[F.Harr]

I agree. The next several strips are going to be GOOD!

[Silverionmox]

Alignment does not dictate one's actions.

Therefore, Durkon becoming evil - even if that's what happened, remember V's transformation - will not dictate his actions either.

He's a vampire, but his allies are still his allies, his enemies are still his enemies (any way you slice it, he's an enemy of Nale now).

Of course, everything depends on how the vampirism effects him exactly and that's the author's discretion. We'll soon see, but as we have seen previously in the strip alignment doesn't make you a robot who can't act outside it.

[Chronos]

And even if he is evil, we already have precedent that evil characters can work with the Order of the Stick, since Belkar is evil. Heck, multiple precedents, since Tarquin was willing to help them out, too.