[PF] VERY Rough Class idea, need help!!!

[Elricaltovilla]

OK, so I'm working on a new Pathfinder Base Class, which combines two major features:
1) The Scout class's Skirmish ability (max +10d6 at 19th level)
2) Swift Action, Short range teleportation (max 640ft. per day at 20th level, divisible into 5 ft. increments)

My question is, how powerful of a combination is this? I'm thinking it's got to be pretty powerful, because it'd be so easy to get full attacks, but I'm not sure.

I still have more I want to add to the class, which is why I'm looking at how powerful the two major class features are so that I know what I can and can't add.

[Amnoriath]

OK, so I'm working on a new Pathfinder Base Class, which combines two major features:
1) The Scout class's Skirmish ability (max +10d6 at 19th level)
2) Swift Action, Short range teleportation (max 640ft. per day at 20th level, divisible into 5 ft. increments)

My question is, how powerful of a combination is this? I'm thinking it's got to be pretty powerful, because it'd be so easy to get full attacks, but I'm not sure.

I still have more I want to add to the class, which is why I'm looking at how powerful the two major class features are so that I know what I can and can't add.

It is quite powerful, damage wise as in Pathfinder they gave back the highest potential damage to the TW style. There are quite a few alternative abilities that allow movement and full-attack but the sneak attack level skirmish is a bit much. The scout archetype may look similar but it starts with having to make a charge and grows to a skirmish trigger but uncanny dodge negates it.
You also don't put a cap on how much you can teleport at a time.
In general, it isn't wise to make a class that will upstage another original in every respect unless it is a fix. You also need to give a theme to the class before just making powerful combos.

[Elricaltovilla]

It is quite powerful, damage wise as in Pathfinder they gave back the highest potential damage to the TW style. There are quite a few alternative abilities that allow movement and full-attack but the sneak attack level skirmish is a bit much. The scout archetype may look similar but it starts with having to make a charge and grows to a skirmish trigger but uncanny dodge negates it.

I was thinking of reducing the skirmish dice progression to 1/3 levels, but even that seems a bit strong to me. Maybe I'll take a page from the Scout Archetype...


You also don't put a cap on how much you can teleport at a time.

The Shadow Dancer PrC (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/shadowdancer#TOC-Shadow-Jump-Su-) disagrees with you.


In general, it isn't wise to make a class that will upstage another original in every respect unless it is a fix. You also need to give a theme to the class before just making powerful combos.

I have a theme in mind, but it's irrelevant to how powerful the mechanics are.

[Amnoriath]

The Shadow Dancer PrC (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/shadowdancer#TOC-Shadow-Jump-Su-) disagrees with you.



I have a theme in mind, but it's irrelevant to how powerful the mechanics are.
1. Dimension door stops you from making any kind of action for the round after you use it. It also takes up a standard action. If a Shadowdancer would choose to use up 320 in one shot it had better be so they could get away. Also dim light on both ends is still another qualifier.
2. Not really, a theme gives you a basis to whether or not an ability is valid within the context of the class.

[Elricaltovilla]

1. Dimension door stops you from making any kind of action for the round after you use it. It also takes up a standard action. If a Shadowdancer would choose to use up 320 in one shot it had better be so they could get away. Also dim light on both ends is still another qualifier.

That's kind of irrelevant to why I pointed out the Shadowdancer. You said:


You also don't put a cap on how much you can teleport at a time.

The Shadowdancer has a cap on how much you can teleport at a time, expressed in feet. So the ability as I've described it has been done like that before, if less powerful.


2. Not really, a theme gives you a basis to whether or not an ability is valid within the context of the class.

Then just trust me when I say I have a theme, and skirmish and teleportation (high mobility) both fit perfectly with that theme. I'm not starting with broken combos and building a class out of them, I wrote a class and am trying to unbreak the combos that came from that theme.

[Amnoriath]

That's kind of irrelevant to why I pointed out the Shadowdancer. You said:



The Shadowdancer has a cap on how much you can teleport at a time, expressed in feet. So the ability as I've described it has been done like that before, if less powerful.



Then just trust me when I say I have a theme, and skirmish and teleportation (high mobility) both fit perfectly with that theme. I'm not starting with broken combos and building a class out of them, I wrote a class and am trying to unbreak the combos that came from that theme.

It gives how much feet you can jump per day but it doesn't limit you to how much of that you use it at a time because of its conditions and action taxes. Yours need a limitation to how much it can use at a time because being able to teleport a double move as a swift action 5 times a day at level 10 with no cost is quite breath taking. The Swordsage won't even have shadow blink for another 3-4 levels.
I am not saying you don't but you should put it up so we can help you fill it with other things.

[Elricaltovilla]

It gives how much feet you can jump per day but it doesn't limit you to how much of that you use it at a time because of its conditions and action taxes. Yours need a limitation to how much it can use at a time because being able to teleport a double move as a swift action 5 times a day at level 10 with no cost is quite breath taking. The Swordsage won't even have shadow blink for another 3-4 levels.
I am not saying you don't but you should put it up so we can help you fill it with other things.

I've done some reworking of the class abilities so far. Skirmish dice has been reduced to 1/3 levels and the teleports are limited to 1/day per level, with the maximum distance starting at 10 ft. at 2nd level and increasing by 10 ft. every 4 levels.

The class is supposed to be an arcane forward scout/rogue. I want them to have a bit of a military feel, and be "elite" without being a prestige class.

That's why they have some teleportation and skirmish dice, and I wanted to give them some limited casting (i.e. paladin or ranger) as well.

[Amnoriath]

Well, this was made a while back and it may not fit completely with what you have in mind but it does have a few abilities that could be very applicable to what you want. In general things like Invocations are often better for specialists types so long as they effective because they can be used without materials and at will.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199905
You may also want to consider something like terrain adaptations. Rangers in Pathfinder expanded more on hunting certain types of creatures. This ought to focus more on capitalizing on the unique advantages of each terrain. An example would be a desert oriented ability utilizing loose and/or dry ground in a tumble check to give yourself cover.

[~Corvus~]

Okay, so Military feel, arcane scout/rogue kinda situation, and has teleports. But you don't wanna break things in half :smallconfused:

Perhaps a differently- themed kind of Skirmish is in order. Perhaps looking into the Magic Of Incarnum would help? Blink Shirt (MoI 60-61) gives a Totemist, at level 1, a 10-foot teleport as a Standard Action, giving up to +10 feet of teleportation for every five levels (1-5 is max 20, 6-10 is 30, etc). However, starting at level 2, the Totemist can use this ability as a move action as long as she binds it to her Totem (making awesome attacking modes difficult because most damaging abilities stem from the Totem chakra bind). Still, incredible mobility and great use. It's magical, but it doesn't require standard action losses after level 2, as spells might do.

You could adapt this by giving a full-round action ability that allows a teleport up to whatever you determine best + d6 damage + additional ability. Maybe instead of gaining AC, this class could gain Concealment in 10% increments, plying on the idea that the Arcane energy used to teleport yourself clings to you, making the body ever-increasingly hazy and difficult to see. Almost like the Child of Shadow stance (Tome of Battle pg 76) It states, for example, "As you move, shadows flutter and swarm around you. Even under the bright desert sun, you are difficult to spot as long as you remain in motion"