polymorph questions

[shendelzar]

i have a level 9 wizard and was looking for some good forms for polymorph.

I just want to make a quick reference list for myself so i dont have to go hunting and stall the game.

LAND COMBAT
Cave Troll (retain casting ability, high Con, High Str attacks)
Garillon (i belive retains casting, hgh con, high str, multiple attacks)
hydra (casting? , multiple attacks)

AIR COMBAT
cloaker (casting?, decent str, can transport 600lbs-ish)
would like to find a fast form that has high dex and con and can cast?????
can a will-o-wisp still cast??

WATER COMBAT
sea troll (casting, fast swim, good str and con)
any good transport type of sea creatures I can use and still cast???????

I know there are many good utility forms(such as rust monster and several burrowing creatures), but i am mainly looking for combat forms where I can still cast and use my spell like affects like acidic splatter.

[Urpriest]

You should be able to cast in any of these forms. Wild Shape restricts casting, as do later Polymorph subschool spells. Polymorph does not.

[Rubik]

Just remember, you can't take any forms more than one size category away from your own. It's a restriction that most people never think about.

Metamorphosis, on the other hand, has no such restrictions.

[edit] In other words, no hydras unless you're Large, Huge, or Gargantuan sized.

[Karnith]

You should be able to cast in any of these forms. Wild Shape restricts casting, as do later Polymorph subschool spells. Polymorph does not.
Well, you need to be able to speak in whatever form you assume, and it needs to have limbs, since Polymorph is based off of Alter Self, and Alter Self says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm):
If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

[Asrrin]

Just remember, you can't take any forms more than one size category away from your own. It's a restriction that most people never think about.

Metamorphosis, on the other hand, has no such restrictions.

[edit] In other words, no hydras unless you're Large, Huge, or Gargantuan sized.

I'm not sure about that, as polymorph states:


The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin

Bolded my emphasis. to strengthen that argument, it goes on to say that there is a stipulation that it may be no smaller than fine size, indicating you can potentially go more than one step in either direction.

[Urpriest]

I'm not sure about that, as polymorph states:



Bolded my emphasis. to strengthen that argument, it goes on to say that there is a stipulation that it may be no smaller than fine size, indicating you can potentially go more than one step in either direction.

That explicitly has to do with type. Getting rid of one restriction does not magically get rid of all of them.

[Karnith]

I'm not sure about that, as polymorph states:



Bolded my emphasis. to strengthen that argument, it goes on to say that there is a stipulation that it may be no smaller than fine size, indicating you can potentially go more than one step in either direction.
Polymorph works as Alter Self except where noted otherwise, and contains no rules text that explicitly overrides the size limit it inherits from Alter Self. Your first quote does nothing to address this (it explains what creature types you can Polymorph into, but does not address size). The second passage mentioned does not conflict with the size limitation; it simply adds an additional restriction on top of that from Alter Self (up to one size category difference, and no smaller than Fine).

It would need something like this line from the Shapechange spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm):
This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size.(Emphasis mine)

Note how Shapechange explicitly overrides the size restrictions of Polymorph/Alter Self. Because Polymorph lacks such a clause, it is stuck with the size restriction that it inherits from Alter Self.

[Menzath]

As mentioned normal polymorph spells say nothing about getting rid of your ability to cast, but they do say "Your gear melds into your new form".

So Take off your spell component pouch and put it back on after you change. Other than that as long as you meet the other basic requirements of casting a spell you are fine (1 free hand, being able to speak).

[supervillan]

Dragons make great polymorph forms, even restricted to limited size and 9HD max. They have decent attacks, superior movement modes (I favour the lowly White Dragon as it can fly, swim and burrow), and you retain spellcasting. Remember your material component supply though, like Menzath says!

[Asrrin]

I find it odd that a 2nd level spell will enable you to technically get diminutive size, but not a 4th or 9th level spell.

[Karnith]

I find it odd that a 2nd level spell will enable you to technically get diminutive size, but not a 4th or 9th level spell.
What do you mean by this? Diminutive is bigger than Fine, so Shapechange can always get you to Diminutive size, and Alter Self and Polymorph can both get you there if you're Fine to Tiny size.

[Asrrin]

Whoops, forgot that fine was the smallest size. I've never messed around with extremely small creatures.

Still, it's very odd that Polymorph would specifically state the minimum is Fine when Alter Self does not have that caveat.

[danzibr]

Check Datktendrils from MM2 or 3.

[Humble Master]

One form that I always loved to use is the Yellow Musk Creeper from Fiend Folio. It gets the Extraordinary ability to drain Int and when your victim gets down to 0 they either die or become a plant zombie slave to the Yellow Musk Creeper that ate it's brain, that is to say you. Not great for open combat but if you can disable an enemy then turn into this and start your plant army.