Tactics: Help My Players (PF)

[joca4christ]

I know I'm probably going to come to regret this, but I'm asking you Playgrounders to help my players.

Here's the sich: A party of five 2nd level adventurers (a halfling bard, a gnome rogue, a half-orc fighter, and an aasimar oracle) have meandered into the depths of a slave traders fortress. They took out the sentries guarding the elevator down, took out two guardians in the main chamber after exiting the elevator, and have barreled through a room of 6 other guards, freeing some slaves in the process. This has all happened within about thirty minutes of game time. The wizard and the oracle have no 1st level spells remaining, the bard has two first level spells, but only two rounds of bardic performance left. The oracle has two or three channel energies left (life mystery). Everyone has mostly full health.

I try to play as if the "dungeon" is living. (We are playing a module, fyi). So if they were to hike back up town, they may have difficulty getting back down to rescue the kidnapped kids before they are sold. Sentries would have made rounds, discovered missing guardians, missing guards at their post, and maybe even the mess inside the forge. They could hole up somewhere, but this too presents problems.

The fighter wants to press on. The rogue and bard are both willing to help how they can. The casters are pretty much like, "we're out, bro." Though that may change.

The thing is, there are several ways I think they could pull off a daring rescue. But I'm the GM and any advice I may give could be suspect.

They have at their disposal, armor that the guards were wearing, a slave who knows the basic lay of the land and who is willing to help, a potion of invisibility, three cmw potions and one clw potions. They also have some thunderstones, and of course, orisons.

I'm sure you guys (and gals) can come up with some ingenious ways to win the day.

So....go!

[jaydubs]

Arm the slaves with the weapons and armor off the dead guards. People who are too scared to fight with you in melee might be willing to stand behind you and use ranged weapons. And even those only looking to save their own skins might be convinced that the way towards the children is the fastest/only way out of the fortress. Or alternatively, do a little reverse psychology. "Feel free to try to find your own way out. But if you want the protection of the group of daring adventurers, we're going this way."

If you cannot convince anyone to stay and fight, send them to get help. Surely there must be someone in the area with a score to settle against the slavers? Like maybe the parents of those kidnapped children? The disruption caused by a group of adventurers murdering their way through the building might be just the opening they were looking for.

Or perhaps there is someplace secret they can hide away to rest? Slaves tend to know about all kinds of hidden hidey holes. They can then pop back out at full strength after the guards do a sweep and conclude there is no one left in the building.

[Galvin]

It depends on what you want. If you want to have mercy and give them a place to rest, just edit in a secret door room into the module, or an unused janitorial closet. Then they could have one person outside keeping watch whilst the casters sleep are restored to full spells. If you don't want to edit the module, the thing my group might do is probably have the casters pick up slings and things they can use and just start slinging away from the back.

[Dayaz]

... Could always add in a couple one or 2 use Pearls of Power. That way they can get some spells back, but you don't have to worry about giving the spellcasters loot that's too good for them (not that a couple of Pearls of Power Mk 1 are really all that usefull after level 6 or so, but I digress)

[joca4christ]

Jaydubs, good thoughts. They've only rescued three slaves thus far, and only one of them would be any type of help. The other two are scared senseless. (As written anyway.) The idea of arming them and having them help isn't all that bad.

Finding an area to hole up in is the issue. I could make something up, but that's almost as deus ex machina as giving them divine rest (something I proposed in another thread.)

And again, the fighter is gun ho about saving the kids, with or without help from the party. It definitely fits the character.

Come on Playgrounders, I'm looking for a "Princess Bride" special here. "The five of us against a whole fortress of hobgoblins? Hmmm. If only we had a holocaust cloak." "I've got one right here." "Why didn't ya say that before hand!"

Give me your best "outside of the box" solutions for my players. Not for me. I have a separate thread where I've asked what I should do. This is for my players. I even sent them a link to this thread saying, "Go here if you want to live."

[Darcand]

This depends a lot on your party and what they still have to come up against. Between the Oracle, Fighter, and pots they have some Hp. If there is one fight remaining then they just might have it. And really, if the Bard took sleep and has two spells left....

Looking at it, they aren't that bad off. The Fighter and Rogue are good to go. The Bard has two rounds of buffs to save for the BBEG. And the Oracle can still heal a few times.

If you want them to win then make their next encounter the one that saves the kids and let them escape. Or let them find the kids and then have one more on the way out.

Or, if you want to teach them that life isn't always fair and that they can't just rush in to every adventure, give them watered down fights until they have no choice but to escape and come back later. Better armed and better informed. You could even make one of the rescued slaves someone so grateful that he rewards them with a good item, so they don't feel like total failures.

What you're asking for is a Get Out of Trouble Free card, which is always a bad idea, as it removes the Fear from the game, and before long they just expect you to help them win. If you feel that they need to win so that your story can continue, then make them think they earned it.

[joca4christ]

What you're asking for is a Get Out of Trouble Free card, which is always a bad idea, as it removes the Fear from the game, and before long they just expect you to help them win. If you feel that they need to win so that your story can continue, then make them think they earned it.

Darand, I am absolutely not asking for a Get Out of Trouble card. I'm asking for creative ways to attempt this rescue without going full tilt battle mode. I mean, if they choose to find somewhere to rest, or go back to town, that's their deal. There will be consequences, but it's not impossible to surmount them.

But, if they attempt to go forward, I would love it if they were offered some ingenious ways to do so...knowing of course that any attempt made has a chance for failure.

[NightbringerGGZ]

So you have a fighter, bard, rogue, wizard and oracle? And it sounds like you have plenty of healing?

My adventuring group would be tempted to keep muscling our way through.

The spell casters that are out of 1st level spells should still have Orisons and Cantrips, which should still be useful for level two adventurers. Daze is a decent form of CC at this level, so hopefully the wizard picked it up. Hopefully the were smart and have some kind of ranged weapon at their disposal, since they should have planned for running low on spells quickly at this stage in the game.

What kind of skills does your bard have? With some of the guard's armor and ranks in Perform: Act, Disguise, Bluff or Diplomacy he should be able to work his way past some of the guards. Shoot, borrow from Star Wars and try to bluff your way past the enemy with some of the party dressed up as guards and others acting like new prisoners.

The Rogue should be able to get some decent scouting done, especially with that potion of Invisibility. I'd be tempted to send him out to determine how many rooms are left to explore and how many guards per room, then come back to the party to share the info. Then take on the rooms carefully, tackling any where you have the advantage in numbers first. Especially if you can arm some of the other captives to help you out.

In fact, that could be the most fun option. Use your thunderstones as flash-bangs, charge into a room and take down the enemy as quickly as possible. Move to the next room and repeat the process.

[Karoht]

They pose as prisoners in another set of cells. Disguise checks, huzzah!

Their bonds are fake, their cells are't really locked, get a few of the slaves to dress up as guards and 'guard' the prisoners. Hide their supplies carefully.

If the 'guards' are questioned about the new prisoners, let the Bard jump in and detail, quite gruesomely (hint: exaggerate), exactly how much trouble they stirred up to warrant their asses being in a cell.

Spend 8 hours resting and regaining spells and such.

At the end of those 8 hours, arm up the rest of the slaves to form up a rear guard while the party takes the front. Proceed to mop the floor with the rest of the dungeon. In the event of a combat, the Slaves take a total defensive action, back to back with one another, in a tight cluster near the door/entranceway to a room.

Also, get names out of all your slaves, or give them nicknames each. This increases their chances of survival dramatically. Bonus points for last names and maybe knowing where they are from.

[joca4christ]

That's what I'm talking about!

Keep 'em coming!

[Karoht]

The only things I would really be worried about is if a Caster uses an AoE spell to clear your slave group, or uses any kind of Control on them. It could turn your meek slaves into a liability, a major one, in rather quite a hurry. So as cold as this sounds, be prepared to deal with them in short order. If they stay in formation and total defensive at all times, there is a good chance they can come out of this alive, but due to things like (I am assuming) their low hit dice and saves, they are highly vulnerable.

Like I suggested, have them guard your doorways, watch your back. Their job should be to keep together, be completely defensive, call for help the moment they see ANYTHING, and be constantly on the lookout for anything that moves. If things go wrong, someone in the party needs to respond, immediately. Heck, maybe keep your casters right near these guys (or not, see above paragraph).

If I were the DM, and I had a party leading a group of low hit dice slaves around, I would target them pretty quickly. Hypnotism/Hypnotic Pattern and Sleep to more or less make them useless/vulnerable. Ghoul Touch dropped on one of them (use Spectral Hand) would be pretty annoying to deal with. Scare would turn them from useful to useless in short order. Heck, a single, well placed Create Pit would neutralize them completely.

But, that's specifically countering them, not necessarily using the resources in the 'dungeon' per se. I would add in such a caster, but it is very hard to justify the presence of one in what amounts to a jail. DM Fiat and all that jazz.

[JonU]

They pose as prisoners in another set of cells. Disguise checks, huzzah!

Their bonds are fake, their cells are't really locked, get a few of the slaves to dress up as guards and 'guard' the prisoners. Hide their supplies carefully.

If the 'guards' are questioned about the new prisoners, let the Bard jump in and detail, quite gruesomely (hint: exaggerate), exactly how much trouble they stirred up to warrant their asses being in a cell.

Spend 8 hours resting and regaining spells and such.

At the end of those 8 hours, arm up the rest of the slaves to form up a rear guard while the party takes the front. Proceed to mop the floor with the rest of the dungeon. In the event of a combat, the Slaves take a total defensive action, back to back with one another, in a tight cluster near the door/entranceway to a room.

Also, get names out of all your slaves, or give them nicknames each. This increases their chances of survival dramatically. Bonus points for last names and maybe knowing where they are from.

Love this idea

[Slipperychicken]

Sounds like the most rational thing to do from their perspective is have someone lead the freed slaves to safety while the others press on with the fighter.

[Karoht]

Sounds like the most rational thing to do from their perspective is have someone lead the freed slaves to safety while the others press on with the fighter.More or less. Have the Slaves bring up the rear with a designated leader (a party member, probably a caster) while the front liners clear a path.

[joca4christ]

@Karoht

There are no casters built into this particular dungeon. I would have to squeeze one in, and I'm not inclined to do that just to counter good tactics.

The group in question is full of novice players, so I'd hate to have them listen to the advice given here only to maliciously subvert it. They are only level two, and that's a low level two to boot. They've managed to find their way there without getting much lootz so their WBL is actually pretty low.

I do appreciate all the advice given. I know one of the players has read the thread already. Not sure about the others one, but it'll be another week and half or so before we play again. They'll have time.

[dupersudi]

Keep going, it sounds like the PCs have successfully entered the fortress, they cannot turn back without consequence, and at least one of the PCs character sounds like he would be vehemently against this. Even trying to enact the Star Wars Detention ploy would be iffy, because there would still be a number of guards and some prisoners missing(and if naked guards were found/smallish fortress were everyone knows everyone...).

My advice? Push forward, arm the skilled/capable slaves only continue to remain fairly stealthy so as not to draw the entire garrison on them at once. If there are enough slaves and they play it out carefully enough their power will continue to grow as they go on. Just because they're out of juice doesn't mean they can just stop, especially if time is a factor.

[Karoht]

@Karoht
There are no casters built into this particular dungeon. I would have to squeeze one in, and I'm not inclined to do that just to counter good tactics.Agreed. This was my concern as well.


The group in question is full of novice players, so I'd hate to have them listen to the advice given here only to maliciously subvert it.Yeah, that was my thoughts, hence the warning toward such at the end of my previous post. I am not inclined to suggest including a caster either.

I more or less pointed it out as 'here is how it could go really bad really quick, if the following happened.'
Also, I had somehow forgot that they were level 2.

So yeah.
Convince slaves to help, with the promise of their freedom.
Play dress up with slaves to make them look like guards.
'Guards' pretend to watch over the 'prisoners' while the party rests up.
Bard plays the face when needed.
Party proceeds to roflstomp the rest of the dungeon, with party of 'Guards' in rear guard for cover/support.

That is my suggestion in a nutshell.

[Slipperychicken]

More or less. Have the Slaves bring up the rear with a designated leader (a party member, probably a caster) while the front liners clear a path.

I was thinking more along the lines of "one PC evacuates already-freed slaves from fortress, others locate and free the children".

[joca4christ]

Just an update.

My players opted for the "disguise" route and so far have successfully delved deeper and have found the jail cells.

The party dressed it's three smallest members as hobgoblins, took the half-Orc fighter, and aaismar oracle as "prisoners", as well as a couple other freed slaves. They told a guard they encountered that they had caught these guys in the caught them in the forge after a huge battle.

After making their way thru a barracks with two drunk hobgoblins and two sleeping hobgoblins, they found the way to the hidden empty cells & fought a automaton. Embolden by the defeat of this monster, they pressed on to the jailers room, caught the two hobgoblins by surprise there, making quick work of them. Then, hearing screams from a nearby room, they investigated and saw a woman being tortured. They made quick work of her captors and that's where we've ended for the night.

Thanks for offering the advice, let's see how far they get now!

[IronFist]

The party dressed it's three smallest members as hobgoblins, took the half-Orc fighter, and aaismar oracle as "prisoners", as well as a couple other freed slaves. They told a guard they encountered that they had caught these guys in the caught them in the forge after a huge battle.
You meant goblins, right? Hobgoblins are pretty big.

[joca4christ]

The party dressed it's three smallest members as hobgoblins, took the half-Orc fighter, and aaismar oracle as "prisoners", as well as a couple other freed slaves. They told a guard they encountered that they had caught these guys in the caught them in the forge after a huge battle.
You meant goblins, right? Hobgoblins are pretty big.

Goblins, yes. My mistake.