Gish profciency question.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm trying to make a wizars basex gish with ranger as the martial dip; but spellsword requires the full armor proficiencies and I don't want to burn two feats for the armor (which I won't even use!). I want to go ranger for flavour reasons and because I like skill points (Int-based casting ensures I still get a decent amount even with low SP per level classes)

Dragon slayer isn't really an option due the BAB requirement (spellsword is just a stepping stone towards Abjurant champion)

[Snowbluff]

My solution is to not use spellsword.

I was thinking outsider would help, but they are technically only proficient with what they are wearing, which doesn't really mean anything. AFAIK.

You could retrain the feats if spellsword wasn't in CW.

[Petrocorus]

Spellsword is not mandatory, even for gish.

You can use Ruathar, Evereskan Tomb Guardian, Master of Yuirwood. Those are the more common rangerish gish PrC. Or Sentinel of Bharrai also.

Take also a look at the Swiftblade.

There are many ways to improve AC without spellsword.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Spellsword is just the easiest +1BAB/+1 spellcasting level that Imcould remember from the topnof my head, I only intended to dip it to pave my way into Abjurant Champion.

Ruathar is 3/4 BAB so it is less than ideal, Evereskan Tomb Guardian and Masternof Yurwood sound like Realm prestige classe and a)I am not too familiar with the Realms, b) I'm playing on a custom setting so I don't think theybwould be available (yes I probably could re-fluff them; but realm classes fluff and crunch are usually quite interwined). Finally Sentinel of Bharrai is an exalted class and I don't like exalted in general.

Edit:Swiftlade doesn't really fit my character concept.

[Galvin]

As mentioned above, avoid Spellsword. As a general rule, they sorta suck. Without full Caster Level progression and the only additional class feature is reducing arcane spell failure. There is an armor enchantment called "Shadow", I believe, that reduces arcane spell failure, and then get your armor as mithril... that solves the spell failure problem, if your intending on using heavy armor. If not, any shadow mithril light armor will be enough to eliminate all ASF.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Again I only intend to dip spellsword for 1 level before going into Abjurant Champion. I know there are lots of ways to avoid ASF (btw you are thinking on the Twilight enhancement, Shadow gives a bonus to Hide), spellsword is for the +1Bab/+1spellcasting level, the ASF is just the icing.

Spellsword is an awesome 1 level dip for gishes in general.

[Larkas]

I assume you are trying to go Wizard 2/ Ranger 3/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Whatever +9. Might I suggest just dumping that Spellsword level and going Wizard 6/ Ranger 2/ Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) 7/ Abjurant Champion 5? Even Wizard 4/ Ranger 3/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Whatever +9 would work (i.e.: you could still manage to get +16 BAB and 9th level spells).

[Dusk Eclipse]

My Plan was Ranger 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Something else 8

[Petrocorus]

Spellsword is just the easiest +1BAB/+1 spellcasting level that Imcould remember from the topnof my head, I only intended to dip it to pave my way into Abjurant Champion.

Ruathar is 3/4 BAB so it is less than ideal, Evereskan Tomb Guardian and Masternof Yurwood sound like Realm prestige classe and a)I am not too familiar with the Realms, b) I'm playing on a custom setting so I don't think theybwould be available (yes I probably could re-fluff them; but realm classes fluff and crunch are usually quite interwined). Finally Sentinel of Bharrai is an exalted class and I don't like exalted in general.

Edit:Swiftlade doesn't really fit my character concept.

Spellswordd is generally used for this.

The problem is there are not so many rangerish PrC out there. ETG and MoY are from the Realms indeed.

The only way i can recall to get the armor proficiency without dipping into fighter is to take the Dragonslayer PrC, but it require two crappy feats and BAB +5.


My Plan was Ranger 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Something else 8

Yep, this is an adaptation of the sorcadin build. Maybe you could take Ranger 1 / Fighter 1 instead of Ranger 2. The feat provided by Ranger 2 can be taken by Fighter 1.

Your something else could be Unseen Seer. I also second the proposition of Knight Phantom if you can adapt it to your world (it's specific to Eberron) and if you don't mind losing another caster level.

[Galvin]

Again I only intend to dip spellsword for 1 level before going into Abjurant Champion. I know there are lots of ways to avoid ASF (btw you are thinking on the Twilight enhancement, Shadow gives a bonus to Hide), spellsword is for the +1Bab/+1spellcasting level, the ASF is just the icing.

Spellsword is an awesome 1 level dip for gishes in general.

my apologies. But spellsword requires Medium and Heavy armor proficiency, which you do not possess. Is it really worth armor proficiency feats for a single, one level dip? is it THAT good?

[Petrocorus]

my apologies. But spellsword requires Medium and Heavy armor proficiency, which you do not possess. Is it really worth armor proficiency feats for a single, one level dip? is it THAT good?

It's not that good. What is good is the step-up to Abjurant Champion.
The classic sorcadin build Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 is impossible without this dip. Because the Abj. Champ. require BAB +5.

[Dusk Eclipse]

my apologies. But spellsword requires Medium and Heavy armor proficiency, which you do not possess. Is it really worth armor proficiency feats for a single, one level dip? is it THAT good?

Did you read the OP? I'm specifically asking for ways to get those proficiencies without spending feats because while Spellsword is useful is not worth 2 feats. I simply want to get into Abjurant Champion ASAP and spellsword helpsmdoing just that.

I'm avoiding fighter because it has really low skill points and a crappy list to booth.

[Petrocorus]

Did you read the OP? I'm specifically asking for ways to get those proficiencies without spending feats because while Spellsword is useful is not worth 2 feats. I simply want to get into Abjurant Champion ASAP and spellsword helpsmdoing just that.

I'm avoiding fighter because it has really low skill points and a crappy list to booth.

Is ToB allowed?

[Snowbluff]

Edit:Swiftlade doesn't really fit my character concept.

I wasn't going to suggest it. I think you know what you are doing, but you are probably better of taking 2 more Wizard Levels or going into Human Paragon.

EDIT: Actually, doing that might be a good idea if you want better skills.

[fishyfishyfishy]

I'm avoiding fighter because it has really low skill points and a crappy list to booth.

How about Warblade? It has a different feel than the Ranger, but is a very solid choice. It has a decent skill list and you can pick up a couple of maneuvers.

Another option might be Duskblade. A few 0 and 1st level spells and some spell like abilities and the proficiencies you need. If you take it to 3rd level you get Arcane Channeling.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Warblade doesn't get full proficiencies, I guess crusader can work, if I stagger the Wizard and ranger levels I could even get level two maneuvers.

Ranger 1 /Wizard 3/Crusader 1/Wizard +1/Spellsword 1etc could work; but it might be awkward fluff wise.