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Telonius
2013-07-30, 09:25 AM
Inspired by this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295086).

Y'all Ain't From Around Here, Are Ya?
Requirement: Commoner20
Benefit: You gain a +20 bonus on Knowledge (Local) checks, but only when interacting with people not native to your hometown. This benefit is only active within 10 miles of your hometown.

My Momma Told Me
Requirement: Commoner20, Knowledge(History)(5 ranks)
Benefit: You gain the Bardic Knowledge class feature, as though you were a Bard equal to your Commoner level.

Creepy Old Coot
Requirement: Commoner20, Intimidate(5 ranks), Age category Old or older
Benefit: Once per day when dealing with anyone not native to your hometown, you may add your Commoner level as an untyped bonus to an Intimidate check. Additionally, your maximum age increases by 10%.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. The Intimidate bonus does not stack with itself, but the age increase does.

Not in My Inn
Requirement: Commoner20, Profession(Innkeeper)(10 ranks)
Benefit: Once per day, you may create an effect similar to the Apostle of Peace's "Calming Aura." The area of effect encompasses your Inn.

Smite Varmint
Requirement: Commoner20, 10 ranks in any skill relating to farming.
Benefit: Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to your level divided by 4, you may add a bonus equal to your Commoner level to all attack and damage rolls. This ability may only be used on any creatures currently threatening (or occupying) squares that contain your crops, livestock, farming implements, or homestead. Additionally, during the period this ability is active, your attacks overcome all damage reduction and ignore all miss chances.

ahenobarbi
2013-07-30, 10:35 AM
Nice :smallbiggrin:

How about small power=up to them (my changes):




...

Creepy Old Coot
Requirement: Commoner20, Intimidate(5 ranks), Age category Old or older
Benefit: Once per day when dealing with anyone not native to your hometown, you may add your Commoner level as an untyped bonus to an Intimidate check. Additionally, your maximum age increases by 10%.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. The Intimidate bonus does not stack with itself but each time you take this feat you get additional daily use of this ability, but the age increase does .

Not in My Inn
Requirement: Commoner20, Profession(Innkeeper)(10 ranks)
Benefit: Once per day, you may create an effect similar to the Apostle of Peace's "Calming Aura." The area of effect encompasses your Inn.
Special: Each time you take this feat you get additional daily use of this ability.

Smite Varmint
Requirement: Commoner20, 10 ranks in any skill relating to farming.
Benefit: Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to your commoner level divided by 4, you may add a bonus equal to your Commoner level to all attack and damage rolls. This ability may only be used on any creatures currently threatening (or occupying) squares that contain your crops, livestock, farming implements, or homestead. Additionally, during the period this ability is active, your attacks overcome all damage reduction and ignore all miss chances.

?

Network
2013-07-30, 12:10 PM
Y'all Ain't From Around Here, Are Ya?
Requirement: Commoner20
Benefit: You gain a +20 bonus on Knowledge (Local) checks, but only when interacting with people not native to your hometown. This benefit is only active within 10 miles of your hometown.
If it wasn't actually an epic feat, I'd have liked it, but as it stand, it's just a version of Epic Skill Focus with more restrictions and a higher bonus. There's no real need for it, and I suggest you make a non-Epic version.

Smite Varmint
Requirement: Commoner20, 10 ranks in any skill relating to farming.
Benefit: Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to your commoner level divided by 4, you may add a bonus equal to your Commoner level to all attack and damage rolls. This ability may only be used on any creatures currently threatening (or occupying) squares that contain your crops, livestock, farming implements, or homestead. Additionally, during the period this ability is active, your attacks overcome all damage reduction and ignore all miss chances.
For a number of rounds? Except in Pathfinder, the paladin's Smite Evil ability only apply to one attack ; in Pathfinder, only during one round. Why is Smite Varmint better?

zabbarot
2013-07-30, 12:37 PM
For a number of rounds? Except in Pathfinder, the paladin's Smite Evil ability only apply to one attack ; in Pathfinder, only during one round. Why is Smite Varmint better?

If balance is the issue you could consider that the Paladin's BAB is at least 20 at this point while the Commoner's is just passing 10. This feat pretty much just says the commoner can be useful in combat for a few rounds. Hell, if it's really about balance it should probably boost their AC too.

Cheiromancer
2013-07-30, 12:41 PM
I've toyed with the idea of letting two commoner levels act as +1 ECL. (Equivalently, that there is a -1 LA for every two commoner levels you have).

In which case you could be a 20th level commoner in a 10th level party, and would get epic feats shortly thereafter.

Network
2013-07-30, 12:43 PM
If balance is the issue you could consider that the Paladin's BAB is at least 20 at this point while the Commoner's is just passing 10. This feat pretty much just says the commoner can be useful in combat for a few rounds. Hell, if it's really about balance it should probably boost their AC too.
To take the feat, the character must have 20 commoner levels, thus 20/4 = 5 rounds of activity. It gets two attacks on a full attack action, so 5*2 = 10 attacks at minimum. At the same level, the paladin can only smite on 5 attacks a day. It is better than the paladin.

Carl
2013-07-30, 01:49 PM
To take the feat, the character must have 20 commoner levels, thus 20/4 = 5 rounds of activity. It gets two attacks on a full attack action, so 5*2 = 10 attacks at minimum. At the same level, the paladin can only smite on 5 attacks a day. It is better than the paladin.

Power attack numpty ;).

A Paladin can combine their noticeably higher BAB with Power attack to produce vastly heftier hits per attack at the same hit chance as the commoner.

Network
2013-07-30, 02:23 PM
Power attack numpty ;).

A Paladin can combine their noticeably higher BAB with Power attack to produce vastly heftier hits per attack at the same hit chance as the commoner.
The paladin must have a charisma score of 30 to stay competitive if both characters use smite. If the commoner has a level of 21 or more (farly sure, given that it is an epic feat), the paladin's charisma score must increase by 2 for every commoner level of his opponent above 20. Also remember that their BAB only differ by 10 at most (unless you houserule it, of course), and the probability to hit with maximum Power Attack is fairly low.

zabbarot
2013-07-30, 02:31 PM
What I'm saying is that for the large number of turns that neither the paladin or the commoner has their version of smite, the paladin is clearly a stronger combatant. So why should he be upset if for a couple turns the Commoner can upstage him?

ahenobarbi
2013-07-30, 02:48 PM
For a number of rounds? Except in Pathfinder, the paladin's Smite Evil ability only apply to one attack ; in Pathfinder, only during one round. Why is Smite Varmint better?

Because "stronger than pally's Smite" doesn't sound like "overpowered". I mean mere fact that you're comparing it to smite evil makes it sound like balanced at best.

Telonius
2013-07-30, 02:49 PM
Nice :smallbiggrin:

How about small power=up to them (my changes):



?

Sounds good!


For a number of rounds? Except in Pathfinder, the paladin's Smite Evil ability only apply to one attack ; in Pathfinder, only during one round. Why is Smite Varmint better?

It's got a pretty limited activation. It's mainly for Farmer Jones to defend his turnips against Vorpal Gophers, or when the Paragon Warbeast Fox of Legend is after his prized chickens, or whatever other ridiculous enemies would be attacking a Commoner20's farm.

Network
2013-07-30, 03:52 PM
I know the paladin in just a tier 5 class, but there is really no reason a tier 6 class should get better abilities than it does. Smite Varmint is in all ways, shape or form stronger than smite evil, the primary class feature of a higher tier class. It scales better, and you can always throw an implement on an opponent's square and benefit from the bonus (while smite evil only work if your opponent is, well, evil). Unless you use a paladin fix which modify the class feature, I suggest it :
* Works for (commoner level)/5 rounds instead of (commoner level)/4 rounds.
* Applies the commoner's charisma modifier to attack rolls, instead of the commoner's class level.
* Doesn't overcome all forms of damage reduction and miss chance (which is usually only seen in tiers 1 and 2).

Svata
2013-07-30, 04:25 PM
Dude, its an EPIC feat. Even an NPC class should have better Epic options than a low-tier PC's first level class ability.

Network
2013-07-30, 04:46 PM
Dude, its an EPIC feat. Even an NPC class should have better Epic options than a low-tier PC's first level class ability.
Dude, its an EPIC feat. Epic feats should be designed with 200+ character levels in mind, not just 30.

TuggyNE
2013-07-30, 06:08 PM
I know the paladin in just a tier 5 class, but there is really no reason a tier 6 class should get better abilities than it does. Smite Varmint is in all ways, shape or form stronger than smite evil, the primary class feature of a higher tier class. It scales better, and you can always throw an implement on an opponent's square and benefit from the bonus (while smite evil only work if your opponent is, well, evil).

I disagree that it's strictly superior, since that kind of munchkinly activation is unlikely to work most of the time (it's not seriously threatening your farm equipment, you are!).


Unless you use a paladin fix which modify the class feature, I suggest it :
* Works for (commoner level)/5 rounds instead of (commoner level)/4 rounds.
* Applies the commoner's charisma modifier to attack rolls, instead of the commoner's class level.
* Doesn't overcome all forms of damage reduction and miss chance (which is usually only seen in tiers 1 and 2).

That said, I could understand toning it down a bit, though DR should probably still be there.


Dude, its an EPIC feat. Epic feats should be designed with 200+ character levels in mind, not just 30.

What? No one can possibly design for level 200, or even level 100; it's so far out of any sense of scale that it simply becomes absurd, like the Immortals Handbook. Think about it: the CR system assumes that every two levels is roughly a doubling in power; do you really think you can make meaningful characters that are ~1237940039285380274899124224 times as strong as level 20 characters? Epic stops somewhere between level 40 and level 60, depending on how sensible and imaginative you are, and even at level 40 the CR system has gone from "usually accurate to within 2 levels" to "often accurate to within 15 levels".

Gem
2013-08-03, 08:05 AM
I know the paladin in just a tier 5 class, but there is really no reason a tier 6 class should get better abilities than it does.

The tier system is a way to categorize an existing class' abilities. It is not a standard for future class abilities. There is no rule that says "commoners have to be weaker than paladins". Players have simply deduced that commoners are weaker than paladins based on the abilities available to both classes. Giving the commoner access to some interesting abilities might change that status quo, certainly. But I fail to see what's wrong with that? At best, you can argue that the homebrewed material is inconsisent with the class' base power level. Which, I believe, is the entire point of this exercise.

Seriously, even if it's stronger than the paladin's smite, so what? It's still more limited in application, and to gain access to it, you need to take 20 levels of commoner. It's a niche application.