Cheiromancer
2013-07-30, 09:37 AM
I am posting this discussion here (rather than homebrew) because I think it is a matter of interpretation of the 'rules and procedures of Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 Edition'. It is premised on the FAQ being wrong concerning the Extra Spell feat, and there consequently being a gap in the rules. I am proposing an extension of the rules to fill this gap, one that may be of broader theoretical interest.
I read Extra Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 79) as allowing you to learn a spell from another class list. Let's suppose I am right, and the FAQ (p. 40) is wrong. (I may be wrong, but that is a discussion for another thread.)
Let's also suppose that it is not a major problem for a wizard (say) to be casting things like raise dead. Things like the Arcane Disciple feat (Complete Divine, p. 79) and the Rainbow Servant prestige class (Complete Divine, p. 54) have blurred the previous sharp lines between arcane and divine spellcasting. Let us suppose that one spell, at the cost of one feat, is not going to be a problem.
There is, however, the problem of classes like the Trapsmith (Dungeonscape, p. 53). A trapsmith has haste and clairvoyance/clairaudience as 1st level spells, and has otiluke's resilient sphere at 2nd level. A generous DM might allow this as well, or he might balk. He might say that if a spell is on your spell list already, you cannot add it as a lower level spell with this feat. Except: why not? If a necromancer wants to get animate dead at lower than 4th level, why shouldn't that be possible? And anyway, a class like Duskblade (PHBII, p. 19) doesn't have haste at all- should it really be able to get it as a 1st level spell via Extra Spell if it is only available to a wizard as a 3rd?
However, there appears to be a gap in the rules. Even if Extra Spell allows you to get a spell from the trapsmith list (and we are supposing it does), it does not say what spell you gain it as. It is natural to assume that since haste is a first level spell for the trapsmith, it becomes a first level spell for you, too. But the trapsmith is a prestige class whose logical entry is 5 rogue levels; you have to be a 6th level character to be a 1st level trapsmith and cast 1st level trapsmith spells. Which in itself makes it completely reasonable that some of these spells should be spells that are 3rd level on other lists; 6th level is when clerics, druids, sorcerers and wizards all have access to 3rd level spells. But this also suggests that 1st level trapsmith spells become 3rd level spells for a duskblade with extra spell, and can only be learned when a duskblade has access to 4th level spells. (This isn't a very good deal for the duskblade, but it is better than never learning haste at all, I suppose.)
So rather than the "natural" way of determining the spell level of a spell acquired by the extra spell feat, suppose we calculate a Spell Level Modifier (SLM) for a given spell list, to determine whether the spell level needs to be modified up or down when a spell moves from one spell list to another. I think the appropriate formula is as follows:
SLM = [(character level when 1st level spells are cast) - 1] / 2
(round down)
In table form:
{table=head]Level |SLM
1 or 2 |+0
3 or 4 |+1
5 or 6 |+2
7 or 8 | +3
9 or 10|+4
etc.|
[/table]
So since a rogue 5/trapsmith 1 casts first level spells as a 6th level character, trapsmith spells have a +2 modifier. You'd treat a trapsmith spell as a spell two levels higher for the purpose of things like Extra Spell. Conversely a trapsmith could use Extra Spell to add a 3rd level wizard spell to his list as a 1st level spell.
According to the same logic, a paladin's spell list has a SLM of +1. So if you wanted to snag bless weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWeapon.htm/) it would be treated as a 2nd level spell, not a 1st. Conversely a paladin could use Extra Spell to get a 2nd level cleric spell as if it were a 1st level paladin spell.
I am unsure whether the rules for magic items are in need of adjustment. A trapsmith could make a very cheap (750 gp) wand of haste. With Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 55), a very cheap (750 gp) wand of otiluke's resilient sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm). My feeling is that things would be a lot more tidy if SLM applied to item creation as well.
Incidentally, the Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East, p. 25) has a spell progression that begins with 4th level spells. With a logical entry of 7 levels (due to a prerequisite of Knowledge (the planes): 10 ranks). This means it has already incorporated a SLM of +3. Which I find very encouraging.
Are there any bizarre consequences of this proposed rule? In the end it is a homebrewed rule, I suppose, but I want it to harmonize as much as possible with the rules and procedures that already exist, and these includes ways of extrapolating existing rules to fill whatever gaps may appear.
I read Extra Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 79) as allowing you to learn a spell from another class list. Let's suppose I am right, and the FAQ (p. 40) is wrong. (I may be wrong, but that is a discussion for another thread.)
Let's also suppose that it is not a major problem for a wizard (say) to be casting things like raise dead. Things like the Arcane Disciple feat (Complete Divine, p. 79) and the Rainbow Servant prestige class (Complete Divine, p. 54) have blurred the previous sharp lines between arcane and divine spellcasting. Let us suppose that one spell, at the cost of one feat, is not going to be a problem.
There is, however, the problem of classes like the Trapsmith (Dungeonscape, p. 53). A trapsmith has haste and clairvoyance/clairaudience as 1st level spells, and has otiluke's resilient sphere at 2nd level. A generous DM might allow this as well, or he might balk. He might say that if a spell is on your spell list already, you cannot add it as a lower level spell with this feat. Except: why not? If a necromancer wants to get animate dead at lower than 4th level, why shouldn't that be possible? And anyway, a class like Duskblade (PHBII, p. 19) doesn't have haste at all- should it really be able to get it as a 1st level spell via Extra Spell if it is only available to a wizard as a 3rd?
However, there appears to be a gap in the rules. Even if Extra Spell allows you to get a spell from the trapsmith list (and we are supposing it does), it does not say what spell you gain it as. It is natural to assume that since haste is a first level spell for the trapsmith, it becomes a first level spell for you, too. But the trapsmith is a prestige class whose logical entry is 5 rogue levels; you have to be a 6th level character to be a 1st level trapsmith and cast 1st level trapsmith spells. Which in itself makes it completely reasonable that some of these spells should be spells that are 3rd level on other lists; 6th level is when clerics, druids, sorcerers and wizards all have access to 3rd level spells. But this also suggests that 1st level trapsmith spells become 3rd level spells for a duskblade with extra spell, and can only be learned when a duskblade has access to 4th level spells. (This isn't a very good deal for the duskblade, but it is better than never learning haste at all, I suppose.)
So rather than the "natural" way of determining the spell level of a spell acquired by the extra spell feat, suppose we calculate a Spell Level Modifier (SLM) for a given spell list, to determine whether the spell level needs to be modified up or down when a spell moves from one spell list to another. I think the appropriate formula is as follows:
SLM = [(character level when 1st level spells are cast) - 1] / 2
(round down)
In table form:
{table=head]Level |SLM
1 or 2 |+0
3 or 4 |+1
5 or 6 |+2
7 or 8 | +3
9 or 10|+4
etc.|
[/table]
So since a rogue 5/trapsmith 1 casts first level spells as a 6th level character, trapsmith spells have a +2 modifier. You'd treat a trapsmith spell as a spell two levels higher for the purpose of things like Extra Spell. Conversely a trapsmith could use Extra Spell to add a 3rd level wizard spell to his list as a 1st level spell.
According to the same logic, a paladin's spell list has a SLM of +1. So if you wanted to snag bless weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWeapon.htm/) it would be treated as a 2nd level spell, not a 1st. Conversely a paladin could use Extra Spell to get a 2nd level cleric spell as if it were a 1st level paladin spell.
I am unsure whether the rules for magic items are in need of adjustment. A trapsmith could make a very cheap (750 gp) wand of haste. With Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 55), a very cheap (750 gp) wand of otiluke's resilient sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm). My feeling is that things would be a lot more tidy if SLM applied to item creation as well.
Incidentally, the Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East, p. 25) has a spell progression that begins with 4th level spells. With a logical entry of 7 levels (due to a prerequisite of Knowledge (the planes): 10 ranks). This means it has already incorporated a SLM of +3. Which I find very encouraging.
Are there any bizarre consequences of this proposed rule? In the end it is a homebrewed rule, I suppose, but I want it to harmonize as much as possible with the rules and procedures that already exist, and these includes ways of extrapolating existing rules to fill whatever gaps may appear.