Difference between inflicted and natural lycothropes?

[CyberThread]

as far as rp and mechanics go, what are the core differences between inflicted and natural lychontrhopes ?

[dascarletm]

Lil Jimmy gets bit by a werewolf, he then can become one, an inflicted one.

Lil Jerry's parents are werewolves, he is born a natural lycanthrope.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Natural get more DR, can control when they change, and get +1 LA. RP wise the big difference is that an afflicted had his condition forced upon him and is possibly looking for a way out/is having issues controlling it and is afraid to be around people. A natural cannot be cured, but is likely to want to be. A natural is gifted with immense power (think about how 1-3 is the most common and how strong even weaker were-creatures are) and can convert others to his kind (willingly or not). Big rp stuff there would be: fight animal urges (defy the alignment the template wants to force on you); make brethren (think of Malack's "children"); or hide from those who hate him on principle.

[Karnith]

Another difference (or, more precisely, a mechanical difference) is that natural lycanthrope is an inherited template, while afflicted lycanthrope is an acquired template. Afflicted lycanthropes must also use the Control Shape skill to effect shape changes or to resist changing shape, while natural lycanthropes get no benefit from the skill.

[Phelix-Mu]

I find the whole issue with the forced alignment change to be somewhat moronic. It kind of makes sense for afflicted ones of certain kinds, but I usually deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

It's kind of old-fashioned to think that an animalistic desire for blood and violence makes one evil. It might force a non-evil character to have a psychotic break, and depending on how a given character deals with these once a month severe episodes of mental illness and their lingering effects, then that character might become evil ("Killing people feels so right"), or might just be extremely troubled. The pain and mental trauma of an afflicted lycanthrope's transformation makes the pyschotic episode more severe, but I don't see this as a compulsion to be evil, just a compulsion toward violence. And as most compulsions, while there is great likelihood of moral danger, being compelled into a course of action reduces the level of personal responsibility (depending on the precise circumstances).

As for natural lycanthropes, I usually let them be whatever alignment they want. "Always x or y" based on our perception of the "nobility" of the animal type is a positively medieval way to view animals. They aren't what they are because the are good or evil, but because of instinctual programming.

The whole rationale behind this is clearly setting dependent; in Ravenloft, yeah, insane animal-people are probably going to be evil, giving in to their base instincts. But in Eberron, this kind of alignment thing is extremely fluffy, and I often dismiss it regardless of setting, preferring to play lycanthropy as a condition that has a strong, often disturbing, mental component.

One of the more interesting quirks about lycanthropes are their reproductive and maturation processes. As I recall, the rules are somewhat vague on this, but clearly a lycanthrope passes the condition on to his or her children (or at least is as likely to do so as not, in the case that only one parent is a lycanthrope), or else there wouldn't be such a thing as a natural lycanthrope.

Furthermore, while the implications are a bit complicated, pregnancy doesn't have a stated impact on the lycanthrope's ability to change form. Thus, it's fairly safe to assume that the lycanthrope mother-to-be will carry the children in a manner that combines features of both human babies and animal babies. Thus, a female lycanthrope could conceivably breed with either the appropriate type of animal, a humanoid, or another lycanthrope. The number of children produced will probably be high (depending on animal type), and the gestation period will likely be shorter than normal for that type of humanoid (unless it's one of the few types of animals that have a longer gestation period than humanoids...elephants, whales, and these would be unlikely candidates for lycans in any case).

A wise female would spend the last several months of pregnancy in animal form (provided she had full control over her form), since many animals are considerably less inconvenienced by pregnancy than the average humanoid. The childbirth process itself can also be easier as an animal, due to changes in proportions.

Baby lycanthropes stand to be smaller than human infants, as they probably spend less time in the womb. Regardless, they probably emerge less helpless than human infants, taking after their animal forms and having greater instinct for movement and other survival-oriented behavior. Lycanthrope mothers of natural lycanthropes may pay less attention to her offspring than a normal humanoid would; this largely boils down to the society in which the children are being raised, and how much luxury a lycanthrope mother has to spend time with the kids while not working or hunting.

The main point of this is that natural lycanthropes probably reach maturity much faster than normal humanoid children of the same race. While they may still lack book smarts, they will be fully mobile and learning to fend for themselves very early on.

All subject to DM fiat.

Natural lycanthropes are essentially humans with strong animal heritage (can't be much stronger than actually being an animal part of the time). Thus, they are influenced by the instincts of that particular animal. Natural werewolves will probably opt to follow a pack structure, natural werebears will spend most of their time alone in their own territory (except for a female with cubs), and natural wereagles may mate for life. Afflicted lycanthropes may eventually gravitate toward these behaviors, but since they were raised as humanoids, they will be torn between the world they knew and the world that their new instincts drive them to seek out.

[Cheiromancer]

I find the whole issue with the forced alignment change to be somewhat moronic. It kind of makes sense for afflicted ones of certain kinds, but I usually deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

It's kind of old-fashioned to think that an animalistic desire for blood and violence makes one evil. It might force a non-evil character to have a psychotic break, and depending on how a given character deals with these once a month severe episodes of mental illness and their lingering effects, then that character might become evil ("Killing people feels so right"), or might just be extremely troubled. The pain and mental trauma of an afflicted lycanthrope's transformation makes the pyschotic episode more severe, but I don't see this as a compulsion to be evil, just a compulsion toward violence. And as most compulsions, while there is great likelihood of moral danger, being compelled into a course of action reduces the level of personal responsibility (depending on the precise circumstances).


The alignment change would sort of make sense if the player always lost control when he changed. Suppose you are a werewolf, and you do nothing to control your condition. Then you are basically allowing a chaotic evil monster to run wild 3 nights out of every month. Not counting times when you lose control in combat. Letting that happen is arguably an evil act, no matter how many orphanages you build the rest of the time.

However, you only lose control if you are unaware you are a lycanthrope:

The character’s actions during this first episode are dictated by the alignment of its animal form. The character remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Wisdom check, in which case he becomes aware of his lycanthropic condition...

A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.

Now if you have control over your actions you should be able to do whatever you like. But say you change form too often and fail the will save. RAW you count as chaotic evil no matter how responsibly you behave. This means that you fall if you are a paladin (and probably fall if you are a cleric); paladins cannot willingly associate with you; you detect as evil and are affected by smite evil and the like... but I don't think you have to act any differently. There aren't any penalties for not acting according to your stated alignment, except those that I already mentioned (fall if a paladin, etc.).

It is basically part of the curse that you count as chaotic evil for the purpose of spells and class abilities. I'd be fine with that. It's just the lousy LA and RHD that bother me.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's two kinds of Lycanthrope imo. The first is the "slavering monster" that gives you the urge to murder babies and cause death and destruction simply for it's own sake.
The second is basically "the animal within" where you get the instincts of a normal (neutral) animal of your type in addition to your human ones.

So, a werewolf might lash out when threatened or cornered and might kill some cattle if he's hungry before he becomes aware of his condition.
He won't run around town killing everything he can find simply for the sake of killing.
If you include forced alignment changes at all with the second kind they should make you true neutral. A better method would be to roll a will save to resist his new urges if he's aware of his condition. If he's not he should act like a normal wolf would.

I prefer the second option because imo, how an afflicted character deals with his new instincts should be an opportunity for roleplaying instead of restricting it to a fairy tale stereotype.

[Lord Vukodlak]

RP can be a rather broad mechanic. The way I read the template. The beast has a different personality, wants and desires as the afflicted. This goes in line with lycanthropy as an affliction where the character acts according to the alignment of the animal form.

I play this as two personalities vying for control in the same body, sooner or later the beast takes over which follows the inevitable alignment change an afflicted suffer.

As a houserule I have an afflicted whose succumbed to the animal always appear as an animal under true seeing

Natural Lycanthropes have no such draw backs they have "full control over this power." All the issues of an afflicted don't exist for them.

Races of Faerun actually gives some nice details society for natural lycanthropes. For them its almost always a blessing the only draw back to being a lycanthrope is the persecution you face from other. The children of natural lycanthropes can start to change form on the first fullmoon after their birth. They often come from a family of lycanthropes who pass down the "curse" through generations.

For my own personal RP rules I draw a bit from an old second edition book Van Helsing excuse me Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts, its a nice book which can actually work across systems as its based more on RP then on actual rules.(but you can still clearly find 2nd edition rules references.

For instance if your father is a natural lycanthrope and your mother is normal, according to Van Richten you have a 50% chance to be born a natural lycanthrope. However if your mother is a natural born lycanthrope you will either be an a natural born yourself or afflicted with the curse. It does not mention what happens if your parents are infected rather then natural born.

True Lycanthropes mature at roughly the same rate as their base race.
Though they'll reach sexual maturity a little earlier. However unlike in 3rd edition a lycanthrope natural born can't transform until they reach puberty during the first few days they suffer uncontrollable changes until they learn to master their abilities. (children infected with lycanthropy can't transform until puberty either). I presume this is done so the DM never has to write up juvenile lycanthropes. True Lycanthropes have higher instances of multiple births but its not that significant.

Not all of it is useful however as it is written for second edition and Ravenloft so there are some rule differences.(when it brings up rules). As its also written in universe it carries the bias of Van Richten the character. Which is pointed out in a DM insert, while he views all lycanthropes as evil monsters its not actually the case, but then adds the bit about how ravenloft may eventually drive them to evil which in the context of Ravenloft makes sense.

Its a really interesting book even if your not playing second edition or ravenloft.

[TuggyNE]

I find the whole issue with the forced alignment change to be somewhat moronic. It kind of makes sense for afflicted ones of certain kinds, but I usually deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

It's kind of old-fashioned to think that an animalistic desire for blood and violence makes one evil. It might force a non-evil character to have a psychotic break, and depending on how a given character deals with these once a month severe episodes of mental illness and their lingering effects, then that character might become evil ("Killing people feels so right"), or might just be extremely troubled. The pain and mental trauma of an afflicted lycanthrope's transformation makes the pyschotic episode more severe, but I don't see this as a compulsion to be evil, just a compulsion toward violence. And as most compulsions, while there is great likelihood of moral danger, being compelled into a course of action reduces the level of personal responsibility (depending on the precise circumstances).

This gets a lot more complicated when you realize that most statted lycanthropes do not turn evil. Werebears become LG, weretigers are TN, and so on and so forth. The fluff says you're becoming, essentially, the human version of the way people think of those animals, which makes a certain sort of sense, and since it is after all a curse….

[Yogibear41]

In regards to the alignment change, dnd good and evil don't work like real good and evil. Its more of a point of view thing, normally only using say the human point of view. Your a human, elves and dwarves are nice to you, so they are good, orcs are mean to you so their bad. Thats an incredibly simplified version of it but its sort of the basic idea. After you have that as a base though it adds in shifts in alignments to a degree.

Myself personally, have a strong dislike for the word "always" when referring to alignment.

But back to the subject at hand, Phelix you have some interesting theories on the birth of natural lycanthropes, I never really considered a human intentionally staying in animal form throughout her pregnancy, althought I have read some splat books written about werewolves and how they could mate with man, wolf, etc.

I guess the way I have always imagined it is the natural lycanthrope is born from at least 1 lycanthrope parent. But its all setting specific, for example it could be that to be born a natural lycanthrope you would have to come from a natural lycanthrope parent thereby tracing your lineage back to the very first natural lycanthropes, and afflicted are unable to pass the gift/curse on to their children, but in say another setting it is also entirely possible that an afflicted parent could pass the it down onto their child, in another setting I could even see a parent who had been cured of lycanthropy years earlier, still producing a lycanthrope child do to the lingering of an animal spirit within their body.

As far as when a natural lycanthrope actually begins to experience their animal side, I like the idea that they are more or less normal humans(maybe with hightened senses like scent, and lowlight) until they hit puberty and then they experience the true beast awakening within them, this is the time that they master their ability to change and why they don't have to put ranks in control shape. I actually read something similar to this in a ravenloft book, but it said early age not puberty.


I myself have actually been tinkering around with multiple ideas for an e6 game I have been working on for awhile now. I've gone back and forth several times about have no natural lycanthropes and having them all be passed the gift one way or another, I have also toyed with the idea that it isn't passed through a bite, but through a ritual where it is freely given. I've considered having no control shape skill exist at all, letting them only change on the 3 nights of the full moon, and having them perform will saves to be able to control themselves, with this idea I have also considered lowering the DC of the will save by 1 or 2 every year they have lived with the gift showing a slow but steady mingling of the animal and human spirits into one.

In every idea I have thought of though, none of them involve a forced alignment change on the good-evil access. I might consider a temporary shift to chaotic while changed, because the fact is your an animal. Its my opinion that even if you lose control while you are changed that you wouldn't do anything that you normally really really didn't want to do anyway.

If your a cold blooded killer deep down and you want to kill certain people, but you have stayed your hand because you are scared of the consequences of the law/etc. well when you wake up the next day a few people might be dead.

If you really care about someone, and they confront you while transformed your not going to hurt them because deep down they are a loved one.

Of course if some dumb monster hunter bent on killing you just because he "thinks" your a monster and attacks you, hes probably going to die....

Really it all boils down to base human emotions.


Suppose I might have drifted off subject a bit, but saw things in posts I just had to respond too :smallsmile:

One more little tidbit that I like if you are using the natural/afflicted route
I think natural or true born lycanthropes real form is the animal/hybrid form and when seen by a spell/etc you see that and not the human, also when they die they changed into animal shape not into human.