[3.5] Dragonfire Adept and Change Shape

[Pungatha]

Hello. I recently posted a question on the Simple Q&A for a rules question I had regarding the use of the Humanoid Shape invocation of a Dragonfire Adept and how their breath weapon interacts.

According to the SRD (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Change_Shape) entry, a creature under Change Shape would lose its original form's Breath and Gaze attacks.

However, my question is in regards to the original form qualification of that statement.

Would my Dragonfire Adept, once it changes form, lose its Dragon Breath class ability?

Like I mentioned, I posted this earlier but got two conflicting answers (Answer 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15723157&postcount=1253) vs Answer 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15723438&postcount=1254))

Which is correct?

Thank you.

[Deophaun]

Yes, you lose your original form's breath weapons.

No, you do not lose any breath weapons not derived from your original form (like from class features).

[BowStreetRunner]

The confusion stems from two separate entries under the Change Shape rules. I'm going to use the Rules Compendium wording here:


"The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its natural form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its natural form not derived from class levels." Emphasis Added

"The creature retains all other attacks and special qualities of its natural form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks."

Note that the reference to abilities derived from class levels is made regarding extraordinary special attacks but they fail to make the same reference later on.

[Deophaun]

Note that the reference to abilities derived from class levels is made regarding extraordinary special attacks but they fail to make the same reference later on.
Ultimately meaningless, as the limitation of "original form" already prevents things like the barbarian's rage (which they cite) from being excluded, as the barbarian's rage was never granted by or dependent upon the original form to begin with.

Edit: Doing a bit more research to figure out why the class level clause was excluded from the change shape ability, and it may be because there are actual classes that link their breath weapon to the form of the originator, such as the Dragon Disciple.

The DFA has no physical link to his breath weapon ability: it's described as being a spiritual link (a dragon-infused soul) rather than through lineage. The Dragon Disciple, on the other had, gets his breath weapon from his draconic blood. Thus, the question is not does the DFA lose his abilities (as they are not based on his form, but his soul), but does the Dragon Disciple lose his?

[Pungatha]

Is there anything to back up anyone's interpretation?

[Deophaun]

Is there anything to back up anyone's interpretation?
Aside from the wording of the change shape ability and the wording of the DFA's class features?

[Pungatha]

Well any sort of errata or ruling or linkage, yes. Those would be useful.

[Deophaun]

Errata, no. Ruling, none that I know of (and rulings from WotC are always of questionable value).