PC Starting Levels

[Arkusus]

I'm starting up a more horror themed campaign, that includes taint mechanics, and I'm trying to figure out what level the characters should start as...

It should be noted that while I'm not really restricting their builds, none of them ave played much 3.5 (D&D yes, 3.5 no) so I'm not too worried about super builds. Mostly I want them to worry about taint, and have to regularly cleanse themselves when they can, but not be overwhelmed by it. Obviously as they level, it will be easier to make the related save against taint, but that's fine.

[137beth]

I'm starting up a more horror themed campaign, that includes taint mechanics, and I'm trying to figure out what level the characters should start as...

It should be noted that while I'm not really restricting their builds, none of them ave played much 3.5 (D&D yes, 3.5 no) so I'm not too worried about super builds. Mostly I want them to worry about taint, and have to regularly cleanse themselves when they can, but not be overwhelmed by it. Obviously as they level, it will be easier to make the related save against taint, but that's fine.
I prefer starting at about level 11, but for a new group, I would recommend around 3rd level. 1st level is fairly stale (though PF makes it somewhat better) and highly lethal. 3rd level is where you are just starting to see what each class is, and more or less eliminates "it's a chicken, run away!"

[Arkusus]

I prefer starting at about level 11, but for a new group, I would recommend around 3rd level. 1st level is fairly stale (though PF makes it somewhat better) and highly lethal. 3rd level is where you are just starting to see what each class is, and more or less eliminates "it's a chicken, run away!"

I do agree with a minimum of level 3. The changes in power between level 1 and 2 are ridiculous.

I'm leaning towards starting around levels 7-9, so the party has a little more leveling to do, but still starts out decently strong.

[137beth]

Sounds reasonable--you are going to want to give them some character-building advice, since the choices needed to build an 8th level character from scratch can be overwhelming to beginners. After that, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Xervous]

Starting level (and level cap, if you are using one) should conform to what you want the general tone of the campaign to be.

Remember:
1-5: Gritty Fantasy
6-10: Heroic Fantasy
11-15: Wuxia
16-20: Godlike

If you start players too high in an oppressive horror environment, they may not "connect" with their surroundings for a number of reasons.

If mostly everyone around them is lower level, either the monsters will be complete jokes or credible threats. In the first case, things won't be scary if they aren't to be feared. Second case, the monsters are perfectly capable of wiping out all the other people, why hasn't this happened already?
If you flood the world with NPCs around the character's level that are struggling in the same fashion, you might clash with players' standards for NPCs and they'll feel disconnected from the world.

Higher level players have much more power and are likely to be capable of trivializing popular horror missions/adventurers/etc. The wizard has Fly at level 5, Dimension Door at 7, and Teleport at 9. I could list pages worth of potential problem spells, but its probably a waste of time.


However, start too low, and players will feel absolutely helpless in a world designed to be cruel, in a game that is cruel to very low level characters.


Alternatively, you could include something that is equally scary (to a degree) to lower and higher level characters. If you can conceive such a grand monstrosity that players will accept, you have a golden key to a horrifyingly good story.

[Galvin]

I prefer starting all my campaigns at 1st, as a matter of preference involving character roleplaying. 1st level implies they are fresh-of-the-boat adventurers, not experienced treasure hunters, that allows a PC to progress with their character as they grow more experienced with adventuring. I would recommend 2nd or 3rd for this particular campaign, if you start them at like 7th, then they might be a bit overwhelmed, as you have stated they are rather new.

[Splendor]

I personally like starting at 1st. But often play starting at 3rd.
Horror campaign w/taint? Pure Soul feat thank you.

[IronFist]

This is terror. Start at level 1. You should be afraid of your own shadow at level 1.

[some guy]

However, start too low, and players will feel absolutely helpless in a world designed to be cruel, in a game that is cruel to very low level characters.

Sounds perfect for a horror game.

Yeah, I'm with others suggesting starting at level 1.

I would say playing any higher than level 3 and your players will be too powerful to evoke a horror feeling. Even level 3 is quite high, I can imagine spells that completely shut down/destroy monsters in the first round of cambat at level 3. And why would you be afraid of anything if you can do that?

[LordBlades]

I prefer starting all my campaigns at 1st, as a matter of preference involving character roleplaying. 1st level implies they are fresh-of-the-boat adventurers, not experienced treasure hunters, that allows a PC to progress with their character as they grow more experienced with adventuring. I would recommend 2nd or 3rd for this particular campaign, if you start them at like 7th, then they might be a bit overwhelmed, as you have stated they are rather new.


Just my 2 cents for the Op regarding starting at level 1:

Level 1 can be extremely lethal. If you're not comfortable with either fudging rolls or losing PCs in one lucky blow from random mook #34 you might want to avoid:
a)two-handed weapons. a Greatsword or a Greataxe wielded by a 13 str warrior deals a max of 13 damage on a hit. Enough to kill a PC that has taken some damage.
b)weapons with high crit multipliers(bows, spears, axes, picks etc.). Even something as simple as a longbow wielded by a lvl 1 warrior (city guard or skeleton for example) can put out a 3d8 on a crit (14 damage average, 24 max).

Also, some concepts are quite hard to bring to life at level 1. Mainly anything that requires multiclassing. For example Gishes (fighter/magic user multiclass) at level 1 are either plain fighters with no magical capability or plain magic users with little martial skill.

I prefer 3 as the starting level, because it's high enough to allow most character concepts to take shape but low enough so the story is still about 'Albert the soon to be awesome who will slay the dragon' and not about 'Albert the already awesome who has slain the dragon'.

[Crake]

This sounds much like a game I started running about half a year ago. What I did was start at level 1, play with E6, but secretly have in place a way to expand past E6 should I feel the want or need to do so.

[SiuiS]

I prefer starting at about level 11, but for a new group, I would recommend around 3rd level. 1st level is fairly stale (though PF makes it somewhat better) and highly lethal. 3rd level is where you are just starting to see what each class is, and more or less eliminates "it's a chicken, run away!"

But that doesn't account for the specific mechanic they are asking about.

Lookin at taint, I think really you're going to want to soften the curve if they are low level. Normally, I would go with level 3 as well, but suggest level 5 here; enough that they feel strong, which makes the slow corruption more overpowering; 15 failed saves and you're permanently gone, the end? Scary.

Keep them low enough that even with spells to reduce taint it's a choice between that or combat effectiveness. Don't just tell then how to cure it, let them experiment. Keep the RP stuff up, like the nausea and hallucinations. Keep the atmosphere oppressive and they shouldn't be able to just shrug, cure and go.

Third might be doable, still, but risks Being too oppressive.

[Fable Wright]

Also, some concepts are quite hard to bring to life at level 1. Mainly anything that requires multiclassing. For example Gishes (fighter/magic user multiclass) at level 1 are either plain fighters with no magical capability or plain magic users with little martial skill.

Duskblade 1 has higher DPR than fighters and can (with Fascinating Illumination) outcast magic users and is rather good at being a gish. And most Gishes really don't come online until at least level 7 anyways, so I'm not sure how a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 1 is much of an improvement over just Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 1 when it comes to executing the concept.

Anyways. Level 1 is the traditional starting point, though at that point, you are ridiculously fragile. The last campaign I participated in at level 1, we had one big fight (with a truckload of cover in various forms, to add to survivability, and a few of the enemies were killed off thief-style ahead of time) and proceeded immediately to level 2, which was much more survivable; you really don't want to spend too long at level 1 if you want the characters to stick around. I would advocate starting at level 1 if you have some encounters in mind with excellent ambient cover and a few enemies that you're willing to hand idiot balls, and starting at level 2 if you don't want a stray crit to immediately kill a character. Level 3 is when characters really start coming into their own with 2nd-level spells, Arcane Channeling (for Duskblades), Sneak Attack/Eldritch Blast/Breath Weapon 2d6, and so on, and so I recommend not starting there, so the characters can feel like they've achieved something by leveling up.

[LordBlades]

Duskblade 1 has higher DPR than fighters and can (with Fascinating Illumination) outcast magic users and is rather good at being a gish. And most Gishes really don't come online until at least level 7 anyways, so I'm not sure how a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 1 is much of an improvement over just Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 1 when it comes to executing the concept.

It depends what kind of Gish you want. Duskblade is severely lacking in the buff department, so if you want a gish that buffs himself and then proceeds into melee as opposed to one that channels blasting spells through his weapon, duskblade is a poor fit.

Portraying most gish concepts at level 1 requires making several sacrifices that don't really pay off in the long run. You can play a Duskblade(rather weak in the long run), you can play a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer (arguably inferior to paladin 2/sorc X, you can play a fighter with Magical Aptitude, or you can play a Wizard with Outsider subtype). Starting at level 2+gives you much more freedom.

Also, gishes can easily come online as soon as level 5 if you're so inclined. something like Neraph Warblade 1/Wizard 4 with Alter Self into Dwarf Ancestor, Fist of Stone, Blur and Power Attack (with or without Wraithstrike) can outdo most melees at that level with ease.

[Arkusus]

Honestly, I do get what you guys are saying.

The problem that I usually have with starting at level 1 usually goes as follows: level 1's double in hitpoints at their first level. Then they get half again at their next level. Honestly that seems a bit silly to me. I do totally get the allure of starting characters off at level 1, so your story gets off from the very beginning, but that also leads into problem 2...

The campaigns rarely stay together more than about 6 months. Basically, either someone in the group gets a job on our usual night, or moves out of town, or just can't show up for a few weeks straight and everyone else loses interest, or something like that often ends up happening.

So, showing full growth of everyone's characters isn't really necessary... and to be honest, in a 'realistic' horror campaign, the players would have likely spent some time in relative safety honing their skills beyond where they might have otherwise, doing less dangerous things. (Less dangerous for a horror scenario). Doing level 1 stuff in this setting... kinda sounds boring.


I'm tempted to start at level 3, but I think I'd be tempted to speed up leveling if I did that.

Ah yes, also these people are coming from mostly playing 4e (one has played 3.5, but not much) so a little more HP acts as a bit of a stupidity-shield early on. I do intend on being a little light on them right at first, till they get the hang of all the mechanics. (The melee characters shouldn't have much trouble, but at least one person in the party will be a caster, which will take some getting used to, especially from 4e)