X-COM and XCOM: General Purpose Thread

[shadow_archmagi]

Since there probably isn't enough discussion for any individual game in the X-COM or XCOM series to get a thread to continuously stay alive, let's just have one big one.

I'm currently working my way through Apocalypse, and I'm curious as to what people's benchmarks are. What should I have by week 4? How do I know if I'm falling behind? Last but not least, how do I earn lots of money, and how do I make lots of friends?

[Grif]

Hard to say. The Aliens do actually scale up according to your score. The better your score, the faster they "tech" up so to speak. But week 4 should have at least disruptor guns researched, and maybe some disruptor cannons if you have those lying around.

You should probably be also starting on at least the early stages of the Toxigun research, one of the most OP weapons you can field later.

To earn cash, and lots of it, start by raiding Cult of Sirius. They hate you anyway, so it's no loss. On a good haul, you can nab up to 3-4 psiclones which you can sell for a pure profit, plus assorted weapons which you can do the same. I know some recommend you to raid neutral organisations such as Transtellar or Solmine, but you have to juggle your relationship with them, but then again, you can nab Elerium off them.

Having friends doesn't really matter in Apocalypse, although keeping the Government and Megapol on the good side is advisable, mainly because police vehicles can sometime help out in an air battle.

[RagingKrikkit]

Raid the Cult? But... but then this (http://lparchive.org/X-COM-Apocalypse/Update%2038/) doesn't happen...

[Cikomyr]

Hard to say. The Aliens do actually scale up according to your score. The better your score, the faster they "tech" up so to speak. But week 4 should have at least disruptor guns researched, and maybe some disruptor cannons if you have those lying around.

You should probably be also starting on at least the early stages of the Toxigun research, one of the most OP weapons you can field later.

To earn cash, and lots of it, start by raiding Cult of Sirius. They hate you anyway, so it's no loss. On a good haul, you can nab up to 3-4 psiclones which you can sell for a pure profit, plus assorted weapons which you can do the same. I know some recommend you to raid neutral organisations such as Transtellar or Solmine, but you have to juggle your relationship with them, but then again, you can nab Elerium off them.

Having friends doesn't really matter in Apocalypse, although keeping the Government and Megapol on the good side is advisable, mainly because police vehicles can sometime help out in an air battle.

Gee. And me who figured the point of the game was to save humanity, preserve the civilization... :smallwink:



I need to start working on a Stargate SG-Command Mod for XCom - Enemy Unknown

[Grif]

Gee. And me who figured the point of the game was to save humanity, preserve the civilization... :smallwink:


Hey, you're doing all the heavy lifting here. You're allowed to be a snobbish self-righteous arse. :smallbiggrin:

[Cikomyr]

Hey, you're doing all the heavy lifting here. You're allowed to be a snobbish self-righteous arse. :smallbiggrin:

So basically, you are the empowered military taking over all of humanity's civilian authorities, killing those who oppose you. Because you Know Better?


It's like you play the other side of all those Alien Invasion Movies where the military are the secondary villains.

[Grif]

So basically, you are the empowered military taking over all of humanity's civilian authorities, killing those who oppose you. Because you Know Better?


It's like you play the other side of all those Alien Invasion Movies where the military are the secondary villains.

Kinda. :smallbiggrin:

(Of course, normally, I won't do that, but there are just those times when the organisations in Apoc do stupid things. Like side with Aliens.)

[The Succubus]

I used to play strategy games like these but I don't anymore. I guess that makes me ex-COM. =/

[shadow_archmagi]

I used to play strategy games like these but I don't anymore. I guess that makes me ex-COM. =/

Ow.


Gee. And me who figured the point of the game was to save humanity, preserve the civilization... :smallwink:


I'm actually doing pretty well. Somehow, SELF and the Mutant Alliance both acquired Friendly status with me, and the only factions I'm unfriendly with are the gangs. Transtellar got aliened though, I just couldn't be bothered to save them once they turned hostile. (I had just invented toxiguns, and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my precious alien-killing poison on stray security guards who fight me to the death for some reason)

[Grif]

Ow.



I'm actually doing pretty well. Somehow, SELF and the Mutant Alliance both acquired Friendly status with me, and the only factions I'm unfriendly with are the gangs. Transtellar got aliened though, I just couldn't be bothered to save them once they turned hostile. (I had just invented toxiguns, and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my precious alien-killing poison on stray security guards who fight me to the death for some reason)

Uh. Transtellar turning hostile is going to make your life very, very tedious.

For one thing, you can now no longer transfer items and agents between bases using their taxis/cargo aircars. Yes, that means your agents will take the tube, (heh heh) while you need to finagle with cargo using your vehicles.

[shadow_archmagi]

Uh. Transtellar turning hostile is going to make your life very, very tedious.

For one thing, you can now no longer transfer items and agents between bases using their taxis/cargo aircars. Yes, that means your agents will take the tube, (heh heh) while you need to finagle with cargo using your vehicles.

Does that come up a lot? I usually make it through games with just one base, maybe a second one that I keep interceptors in just for the extra response time.

[Grif]

Does that come up a lot? I usually make it through games with just one base, maybe a second one that I keep interceptors in just for the extra response time.

When you want space for extra Large Labs, yeah. Especially Large Workshops and Hangars, since you will need those to manufacture X-COM specific vehicles.

(Also when you want to train up a new cohort of agents, but that comes up less often.)

[RagingKrikkit]

So, who wants Firaxis to remake Apocalypse without cutting the half of the game that makes you want to not kill all the civilian companies?

[Surrealistik]

Remake Apocalypse with:

Functioning people tubes (they actually aren't able to go everywhere)
Ground vehicles that are worth a damn
A more gritty cyberpunk aesthetic
The expanded diplomacy and intrigue elements that were originally intended; benefits and hazards of allies and enemies should be more impactful.
Point buy multiplayer mode for tactical skirmishes that's actually balanced
Environments that change with heavy alien infestation (think creep)
Dynamic and expanding Micronoid empire (and for gods sake, change their name to something that's not so 60s pulp).


Best X-Kawm ever.

[Triaxx]

Only if they also redo Interceptor. That's my favorite game from the series. (The only one where characters named after me don't end up being more threat to their own team than the enemy, or dying without getting a shot off. :P)

[Grif]

Remake Apocalypse with:

Functioning people tubes (they actually aren't able to go everywhere)
Ground vehicles that are worth a damn
A more gritty cyberpunk aesthetic
The expanded diplomacy and intrigue elements that were originally intended; benefits and hazards of allies and enemies should be more impactful.
Point buy multiplayer mode for tactical skirmishes that's actually balanced
Environments that change with heavy alien infestation (think creep)
Dynamic and expanding Micronoid empire (and for gods sake, change their name to something that's not so 60s pulp).


Best X-Kawm ever.

Fund it!

(They can even reuse the combat system from the original Apoc!)

[nooblade]

Remake Apocalypse with:

Functioning people tubes (they actually aren't able to go everywhere)
Ground vehicles that are worth a damn
A more gritty cyberpunk aesthetic
The expanded diplomacy and intrigue elements that were originally intended; benefits and hazards of allies and enemies should be more impactful.
Point buy multiplayer mode for tactical skirmishes that's actually balanced
Environments that change with heavy alien infestation (think creep)
Dynamic and expanding Micronoid empire (and for gods sake, change their name to something that's not so 60s pulp).


Best X-Kawm ever.

I know of two freeware XCOM projects and I wish they were like this instead of focusing on original XCOM stuff only. Well maybe in years and years.

[Surrealistik]

It may be sacrilege, but I thought Apocalypse was the best of the ecks kawms personally.

[factotum]

I would agree with you there, so let's be sacrilegious together! :smallwink: I thought the "real-time but pause when something important happens" gameplay sped things up a lot, especially when looking for that elusive last alien, and the destructible terrain was fun too--who didn't like to shoot out the supports of a walkway and have it crash down on the alien beneath? (I even saw a video once where someone used vortex mines to destroy all the supports of a slum building, causing the entire thing to collapse...).

[Grif]

I would agree with you there, so let's be sacrilegious together! :smallwink: I thought the "real-time but pause when something important happens" gameplay sped things up a lot, especially when looking for that elusive last alien, and the destructible terrain was fun too--who didn't like to shoot out the supports of a walkway and have it crash down on the alien beneath? (I even saw a video once where someone used vortex mines to destroy all the supports of a slum building, causing the entire thing to collapse...).
That video was beautiful.

*sniff*

I never seen another game implementing destructible environment like that.

[shadow_archmagi]

That video was beautiful.

*sniff*

I never seen another game implementing destructible environment like that.

Red Faction Gorilla comes close.


So, I have enough energy shields to give my entire 12-man squad two. It's great.

The only downside is that now they're so hard to kill, sometimes the explosions that would kill them just destroy the floor underneath them, and they end up stuck in a hole for the rest of the mission.


Ugh. I just got a base invasion where one man (Nicknamed Sylvester Stallone, because everyone in my dedicated raiding party has S names) gunned down a dozen Osiron chumps, only to be hit by a rocket from the last man, which triggered the dozen grenades on the dozen corpses he was standing on.

[Asheram]

Ugh. I just got a base invasion where one man (Nicknamed Sylvester Stallone, because everyone in my dedicated raiding party has S names) gunned down a dozen Osiron chumps, only to be hit by a rocket from the last man, which triggered the dozen grenades on the dozen corpses he was standing on.

Sounds like a blast. :smallbiggrin:

I really should pick up Apocalypse some day... Still sticking with OpenXcom for a while longer though.

[Tengu_temp]

By the way, there is a trick to stealing from organizations in Apocalypse without lowering your relations with them:

Only use stun weapons. Don't use lethal weapons of any kind. Raid a facility, stun everyone, pick up all the look you can carry, and flee. Don't end the mission with a victory, just run away!

Note that you will still get score for this mission, so the aliens will get more advanced. Also, don't use this tactic against gangs or other organizations that are unfriendly towards you, they will be too heavily armed.

[Surrealistik]

Having played Apoc again, I must gush about my love for personal teleportation devices. 4 per soldier, never lose a shield ever again. Like Mastercard, it's all you need. Once you have a ton of these, you have no excuse for casualties outside of maybe Psimorph mind control (unless you exploit the Mind Shield bug or have your own psychics to regain control).

Incoming vortex grenade? Pick it up, teleport to the middle of an enemy group, drop it, then teleport behind an alien some distance from the blast, execute him gangland style with C Toxin on auto, then teleport away to safety.

Likewise, you can just drop your own vortex grenades as well. Telebombing runs are a great way to cause massive risk free AoE damage, and remotely collapse structures/destroy objectives.

Dimensional missile locked on? Teleport behind, above, or to the side of an alien group behind cover (or so the group is interposed between you and the rocket) wait for it to turn and hit a surface (floor, ceiling, wall) in the midst of the aliens, then teleport away. Lol.

Also great when used in tandem with cloaking devices to snipe aliens like the Megaspawn beyond their detection range.

So much fun.

[shadow_archmagi]

What does one get out of visiting the alien dimension? I haven't been there yet.

[tensai_oni]

What does one get out of visiting the alien dimension? I haven't been there yet.

Nothing, except you need to destroy it to win the game.

EDIT: Okay, almost nothing. There's one thing, but you get it so late into the destroy-a-thlon that it doesn't really matter anymore.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, winning the game and toxin gas grenades/missiles if you capture the Queenspawn.

[RagingKrikkit]

Having played Apoc again, I must gush about my love for personal teleportation devices. 4 per soldier, never lose a shield ever again. Like Mastercard, it's all you need. Once you have a ton of these, you have no excuse for casualties outside of maybe Psimorph mind control (unless you exploit the Mind Shield bug or have your own psychics to regain control).

Incoming vortex grenade? Pick it up, teleport to the middle of an enemy group, drop it, then teleport behind an alien some distance from the blast, execute him gangland style with C Toxin on auto, then teleport away to safety.

Likewise, you can just drop your own vortex grenades as well. Telebombing runs are a great way to cause massive risk free AoE damage, and remotely collapse structures/destroy objectives.

Dimensional missile locked on? Teleport behind, above, or to the side of an alien group behind cover (or so the group is interposed between you and the rocket) wait for it to turn and hit a surface (floor, ceiling, wall) in the midst of the aliens, then teleport away. Lol.

Also great when used in tandem with cloaking devices to snipe aliens like the Megaspawn beyond their detection range.

So much fun.

You are a horrible person for daring to play an X-Com game in real-time.[/sarcasm]

[Hiro Protagonest]

You are a horrible person for daring to play an X-Com game in real-time.[/sarcasm]

The Bureau will be utter sacrilege! Exploring political themes? Mutons are scary? At least one of your troopers is actually important to the story and must be kept alive? Real-time combat to try and pull in those ADHD kids (I loooove how diehard turn-based fans basically use this argument every time something converts to real-time, never mind that real-time tactics is also an underused genre)? Heresy!

This planet has been marked for extermination (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Exterminatus) by the Imperium of Man for its irredeemable heresy. Send in Samus (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Samus).

[MCerberus]

So there's a rumor going around: Enemy Within.
Sound like either C'thulu or mind-controlled world governments.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So there's a rumor going around: Enemy Within.
Sound like either C'thulu or mind-controlled world governments.

Mind-controlled governments was the first one. How else can you explain the aliens never attacking your base and the Powers That Be restricting you to one base and one Skyranger?

I hope it's Terror From The Deep.

[Triaxx]

Tactics is an underused Genre, no matter realtime or turn-based.

[MCerberus]

Mind-controlled governments was the first one. How else can you explain the aliens never attacking your base and the Powers That Be restricting you to one base and one Skyranger?

I hope it's Terror From The Deep.

They obviously spent most of your startup money on ominous backdrops, duh. In order to keep the mysterious man of mystery mysterious costs $10million a day.

edit- and the world governments could have at least gotten some ad revenue for X-Com by monetizing his transmissions. Greetings commander. Have you heard of the delicious taste of low-calorie diet Dr. Pepper?

[Seatbelt]

I hope its not terror from the deep. I dont know anything about it at all but I dont want to fight under water fish people. I want to fight aliens. Who... arent.. under water?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I hope its not terror from the deep. I dont know anything about it at all but I dont want to fight under water fish people. I want to fight aliens. Who... arent.. under water?

Terror From The Deep is basically a giant alien ship that crashed into Earth and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. They were woken up by a last-ditch distress call from the invaders.

[RagingKrikkit]

So there's a rumor going around: Enemy Within.
Sound like either C'thulu or mind-controlled world governments.

Sounds more like what Dr. Shen was worried about.

"What if the aliens were once like us? ...We have to keep moving forward with the project, but the thought of following the same path as the aliens is... troubling."

My guess: psionics and the advanced technology discovered duing the war begins to tear humanity apart as more and more people begin to push for the advances the aliens had made. Genetic engineering, cybernetic augmentation, everything that made the aliens the terror machine they were. And now it's happening to us.

[thorgrim29]

Well I preordered the Bureau, if it continues to sell I'll got a bunch of old xcom games with it so that's pretty cool

Oh and I managed my first ever successful battleship raid on classic today, happy days.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well I preordered the Bureau, if it continues to sell I'll got a bunch of old xcom games with it so that's pretty cool

Oh and I managed my first ever successful battleship raid on classic today, happy days.

...Okay, I am soooo pre-ordering.

[RagingKrikkit]

Wait, you mean like a bundle pack?

[thorgrim29]

yeah, right now anyone who preorders gets a dlc and a copy of spec ops: the line, and if more people preorder we'll get pretty much every game with xcom in the title (including the latest one)

[RagingKrikkit]

Any idea what retailer that is? Amazon is promising credit for other 2k games, but I didn't see anything about the rest.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Any idea what retailer that is? Amazon is promising credit for other 2k games, but I didn't see anything about the rest.

It's Steam.

[RagingKrikkit]

Well. Then

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee409/xLiGhTz/rageface.jpg

[Surrealistik]

Well. Then

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee409/xLiGhTz/rageface.jpg

One of us. One of us. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1Y_KNYNzN6A&t=7)

[RagingKrikkit]

I have neither the time, money, or inclination to swap to PC gamaing. Besides, why would I want to join a group of elitist snobs who whine all day about mods and graphics cards?

[Ogremindes]

I have neither the time, money, or inclination to swap to PC gamaing. Besides, why would I want to join a group of elitist snobs who whine all day about mods and graphics cards?


yeah, right now anyone who preorders gets a dlc and a copy of spec ops: the line, and if more people preorder we'll get pretty much every game with xcom in the title (including the latest one)

That seems like a reason.

[RagingKrikkit]

Well, frankly the whole reason I got interested in that bundle was because of Spec Ops, which I can get from Amazon for the Xbox 360 for 28.90. I already have the original X-Com, TFTD and the new one, could get Apocalypse whenever I wanted for zero cash, and have no real interest in Interceptor or Enforcer. So, I could spend upwards of $1000 dollars to get/build a gaming PC and another $60 for a game I want, and get a game I have a peripheral interest in, or I could spend $30 bucks now for a game I want, and maybe another $30 in a year if I feel like getting the other.

[Gnoman]

Well, frankly the whole reason I got interested in that bundle was because of Spec Ops, which I can get from Amazon for the Xbox 360 for 28.90. I already have the original X-Com, TFTD and the new one, could get Apocalypse whenever I wanted for zero cash, and have no real interest in Interceptor or Enforcer. So, I could spend upwards of $1000 dollars to get/build a gaming PC and another $60 for a game I want, and get a game I have a peripheral interest in, or I could spend $30 bucks now for a game I want, and maybe another $30 in a year if I feel like getting the other.

You can build a decent PC (decent as in "plays everything now, and will easily play most games for the next few years as long as you're not obsessed with maximum quality") for around $400-600, and a "good enough" one that plays most things for even less. The notion that PC gaming costs a fortune is pure myth, and always has been. The only people who drop $1000+ on a gaming rig are those who absolutely must have the absolute best. Besides this, the actual games wind up being much cheaper unless you must get them on release due to Steam sales and similar.

[RagingKrikkit]

Okay, we're derailing, and I'm going to forgo making a comeback to get us back on topic.

I looked up some videos for The Bureau, and finally saw some Sectoids and Mutons. Honestly, that was one of my biggest worries before: where are the classic aliens?

[Grif]

On a related topic, have anyone tried Xenonauts?

It's really like old-school X-COM, but with modern HD graphics.

[Hiro Protagonest]

On a related topic, have anyone tried Xenonauts?

It's really like old-school X-COM, but with modern HD graphics.

I will. Eventually...

The added realism is what wins me over. The light tanks being able to roll over terrain (rather than requiring your troops to shoot it), a far more intuitive arsenal, and far better aerial combat with the ability to send out squadrons so you don't fight them one at a time are great. I hope they draw from Jagged Alliance 2 or the new XCOM with a suppression fire system.

[Triaxx]

It sounds better than UFO:AI, which has gone kind of nuts with excessive difficulty lately.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It sounds better than UFO:AI, which has gone kind of nuts with excessive difficulty lately.

You mean the UFO Afterblank series? I hear there's some gamebreaking bugs in that.

[Triaxx]

No, the freeware UFO: Alien Invasion. It's still not complete, and last I knew they were up to version 2.5, but it's currently got balance issues to the point that it's more efficient to just run all the fights with auto-battle to minimize losses.

[Surrealistik]

No, the freeware UFO: Alien Invasion. It's still not complete, and last I knew they were up to version 2.5, but it's currently got balance issues to the point that it's more efficient to just run all the fights with auto-battle to minimize losses.

Nade launcher spam and laser sniping doesn't work anymore?

[Triaxx]

No, because they kicked lasers way up the tech tree, and there's no three round burst on the launcher. Plus the way they work the reaction fire, the aliens are more likely to kill you for trying to shoot them than you actually succeeding at doing anything.

[Surrealistik]

What about flashbang spam?

[Triaxx]

I never could figure out if they were or weren't working.

[nooblade]

Speaking of free stuff...

I never did try the third free XCOM project I knew of (other than UFO:AI or openXcom) because it didn't have a geoscape in it yet. Anyone here give the ASCII graphics X@COM (http://xcomrl.blogspot.com/) a shot? And it looks like openXcom (http://openxcom.org/) has made quite a bit of progress too. I think I might even prefer to use openXcom over the steam version I got a while ago.

It looks sort of like there's another project called UFO2000. Anyone know if it's not dead? Maybe slow to update, apparently there were like two years between some other newsposts.

[Asheram]

And it looks like openXcom (http://openxcom.org/) has made quite a bit of progress too. I think I might even prefer to use openXcom over the steam version I got a while ago.

Well, OpenXcom is very recommended. It has none of the classical x-com bugs and a lot of optional features to improve your play, such as the option to manually place the facilities of your first base and the setting to auto-sell on manufacturing is a godsend.

That said, the AI is a lot smarter and will kill you more often, especially since they stealth buffed the aliens to on the start of the mission, within a certain range, all be turned towards the skyranger. (Turn one smoke is not mandatory but it'll improve survival)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hm... does OpenXcom change the way the radars work, or is it still that the best radar you can get is one short range plus one long range, and the others don't stack?

[Asheram]

Hm... does OpenXcom change the way the radars work, or is it still that the best radar you can get is one short range plus one long range, and the others don't stack?

It's fixed. Now there's a larger percentage chance to detect UFO when you stack radars, but the Hyperwave Decoder still has a 100% and max range (as it should)

((Oh, and you can now see eventual radar coverage when placing bases))

[Gnoman]

There *was* (it still exists, but the original site no longer distributes it) a very, very nice remake called "The Two Sides", which was designed as a multiplayer version. They shut the project down once Firaxis announced the new XCOM game, but it was mostly done, with a few minor bugs and no X-COM AI (in other words, if you want to play as the aliens, you had to find an opponent, even though the alien tech tree was pretty much done.)

[Sharoth]

~sigh~ Who ever knew that a 63% chance to hit meant that it would miss 8 times out of 8. I had saved and reloaded just to see what would happen.

[BRC]

~sigh~ Who ever knew that a 63% chance to hit meant that it would miss 8 times out of 8. I had saved and reloaded just to see what would happen.
The person who programmed the game to use random number seeds rather than as-needed RNG.

Basically, the game randomly generates a list of numbers between 0 and 99. Every time you take a shot, it picks the next number in the list, compares that to your %chance to hit, and produces a result. If your number is lower than the chance to hit, you hit (Or so I assume anyway. I havn't seen the code, but that's how I'd do it. The List vs Rolling the dice each time I DO know is true.).

So if you're numbers were
70, 87, 43, 15.
And you missed on the 70, everytime you reloaded you would be resetting the list again. You kept missing because you were literally taking the exact same shot every time. 70. 70. 70. 70. 70 over and over again.

They did this to prevent people save-scumming a specific shot until they hit.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, if you reload just before that specific action and then do it again, the result is predetermined.

[shadow_archmagi]

~sigh~ Who ever knew that a 63% chance to hit meant that it would miss 8 times out of 8. I had saved and reloaded just to see what would happen.

Game prevents that particular brand of cheating

[Asheram]

Game prevents that particular brand of cheating

But save-scumming is the one equalizer we have when it comes to Xcom. I've never encountered a game series so... vicious and bloodthirsty.

[Hiro Protagonest]

But save-scumming is the one equalizer we have when it comes to Xcom. I've never encountered a game series so... vicious and bloodthirsty.

You can savescum. You can't savescum one particular shot. Hell, if you shoot at someone else it'll reset the result, I think.

[Seatbelt]

You can savescum a particular shot. You just need to force a die roll before you take that shot. Your sniper whifs an 80% shot? Reload and move your someone to provoke an overwatch attack. You know the next number in the list is a poor one, so your soldier is probably going to be fine. Or make an attack that had a low chance of success anyway. But if you're going to be a dirty whore you may as well force the AI to use that low number.

[Surrealistik]

Better yet, play Ironman and dispense with the need (and ability) to save scum entirely.

[Seatbelt]

I'm just saying you can cheat, and if you're going to cheat anyway you may as well do it correctly.

[Triaxx]

UFO:AI doesn't allow battlescape saving at all.

[Surrealistik]

When your team has been routed, and the world is in... ashes... then you have my permission to save.

[shadow_archmagi]

But save-scumming is the one equalizer we have when it comes to Xcom. I've never encountered a game series so... vicious and bloodthirsty.

Blood will be spilled, sure. Just make sure you have enough blood. Keep a rotation of soldiers so you never have an all-rookie squad, keep enough lumber on hand for funeral pyres.

[chiasaur11]

But save-scumming is the one equalizer we have when it comes to Xcom. I've never encountered a game series so... vicious and bloodthirsty.

The point of save scumming is to try alternate approaches. Backing off when you attacked, going for explosives when you just scouted last time, that sort of thing. Just repeating the same thing is the definition of insanity.

[Tavar]

The point of save scumming is to try alternate approaches. Backing off when you attacked, going for explosives when you just scouted last time, that sort of thing. Just repeating the same thing is the definition of insanity.

Only if there aren't random variables involved. If there are, then repeating the same action can have very different results. Still would be incredibly boring for me, but it's not insane.

[Sharoth]

I picked up the slingshot DLC and started a new game. I am on an X-Box 360. My question is, when does the DLC start? The first month? Or after that?

[Sharoth]

The reason why I had saved at that particular time was I wanted to see what would happen (and I did not understand how the game mechanics worked). I was tired of my squad being unable to hit the broad side of a barn at 10 feet away. ~grins~ I guess I was unlucky with that squad.

[Cristo Meyers]

I picked up the slingshot DLC and started a new game. I am on an X-Box 360. My question is, when does the DLC start? The first month? Or after that?

The first time the Council gives you a mission you'll have the option of starting the DLC. Though I think if you refuse the mission when it first shows up then it won't start at all, you'll just keep getting normal Council missions.

[shadow_archmagi]

Eugh. I just captured my first megaspawn, but it cost me three troopers. Those things are nasty.

Worse, aliens seem to prefer cloaks over shields these days, so my supply of shields is drying up. The glory days of two shields per soldier are over. :-(

Also, Transtellar officially hates me forever due to being at war with "their alien friends." They're not infested, they're just jerks.

[Grif]

Eugh. I just captured my first megaspawn, but it cost me three troopers. Those things are nasty.

Worse, aliens seem to prefer cloaks over shields these days, so my supply of shields is drying up. The glory days of two shields per soldier are over. :-(

Also, Transtellar officially hates me forever due to being at war with "their alien friends." They're not infested, they're just jerks.

Transtellar has always been jerks in my experience. :smalltongue:

But yeah, shields would get relatively rarer as time progresses. But still, you should be able to churn them out by the bucketload by now. (Assuming you have a dedicated Large Workshop for shieldmaking.)

[NEO|Phyte]

If Transtellar isn't infested, you should be able to bribe them back up to friendly.

[Surrealistik]

You can't bribe them when they lurve their 'alien friends'. Even in the dystopian cyberpunk world (city) of Megaprimus some things are worth more than money, including if not especially unrequited affection for marauding invaders totally indifferent to your goals and ambitions.

Also Transtellar tends to side with the aliens as they're initially friendly with them (i.e. attacking/disrupting the aliens makes them more hostile to you). There is also a note about Megapol regarding them as being especially susceptible to alien contamination for whatever reason; I assume this was a plot point that got lost when the game was rushed to market. To speculate, either there's an alien mole (or several) in the upper echelons of its management, or they really, _really_ will do anything for that Klondike Bar of interdimensional technology, including open betrayal of its own species; just think of all the logistical applications!

[Kizor]

Yeah, random numbers are tricky with computers. You're basically trying to build an entirely predictable system and then telling it to surprise you. Beginning programmers may find that a program they made to pick a random number between 1 and 100 randomly picks 63 every time it's run.

Games don't use actual random numbers, they use cheaper I-can't-believe-it's-not-randomness that work well enough but can have strange quirks like the same random event happening every time after a save.


I hope its not terror from the deep. I dont know anything about it at all but I dont want to fight under water fish people. I want to fight aliens. Who... arent.. under water?

I'd actually like to see TftD done well. The sea has lots of the horrible creatures and oppressive atmosphere that suits X-COM so nicely.

The original Terror was mostly just the first game all over again, with new graphics and new maps. There were new aliens and mixed crews, overland missions where some of your gear wouldn't work, and the tech tree was shuffled around a tiny bit (you'd need a specific terror unit to get power suits), but it played just the same. Grenades flew at the bottom of the sea just like they always have, and nobody would float without flying suits.

In fairness the game's remembered for some changes, but many of them weren't for the better. I'm told there were huge cruise ship terror missions that degenerated into checking cabin after cabin to chase down that last Tasoth. There were lobstermen, murderous things you might love to hate, with extreme damage resistance to most attacks, and melee weapons that cut through them like butter. There were flying Chryssalids. Mostly there was the difficulty. If what I've heard is correct, DOS versions of X-COM have a bug that jams the difficulty on "beginner", so the devs received feedback on the higher difficulty levels being too easy, and chose to adjust TftD to compensate. The game's masochistic. I've tried it a few times (FLYING CHRYSSALIDS) but bounced off.

A friend of mine has iron-manned it on Superhuman.

[Surrealistik]

Unfortunately, TFTD like the original is ridiculously easy once you get Mind Control + blaster weapons. The X-Com series overall is notorious for its collapsing difficulty.

[tonberrian]

I've taken to playing XCOM like I do Fire Emblem: no one gets left behind.

Aside from a few mistakes on stunning, hasn't been too bad so far.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If what I've heard is correct, DOS versions of X-COM have a bug that jams the difficulty on "beginner", so the devs received feedback on the higher difficulty levels being too easy, and chose to adjust TftD to compensate. The game's masochistic. I've tried it a few times (FLYING CHRYSSALIDS) but bounced off.

A friend of mine has iron-manned it on Superhuman.

Yeah, it's a sequel to the original X-COM in the sense that, once you've done the no-psionics no-lasers (while you can succeed with going straight for plasma, the laspistol is the best weapon in the game, its full-auto capability with the low TU cost allowing it to slightly out-DPS lasrifle in close-quarters, and the plaspistol is weaksauce in comparison due to higher TU costs and need for reloading) no-explosives one-base Superhuman challenge, and ask "what's next?" the answer is "Terror From The Deep".

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, it's a sequel to the original X-COM in the sense that, once you've done the no-psionics no-lasers (while you can succeed with going straight for plasma, the laspistol is the best weapon in the game, its full-auto capability with the low TU cost allowing it to slightly out-DPS lasrifle in close-quarters, so the plaspistol is weaksauce in comparison due to higher TU costs and need for reloading) no-explosives one-base Superhuman challenge, and ask "what's next?" the answer is "Terror From The Deep".

TFTD is indeed a formidable, hair ripping challenge with all of those restrictions in place as long as you're iron-manning (no save scumming, one save after each mission).

[Grif]

Unfortunately, TFTD like the original is ridiculously easy once you get Mind Control + blaster weapons. The X-Com series overall is notorious for its collapsing difficulty.

Another reason why I loved Apocalypse. Psi isn't the end all, be all weapon in the game, having been nerfed appropriately to be limited to LOS and made weaker overall. I'm kinda glad the new XCOM took the same route.

[Surrealistik]

Another reason why I loved Apocalypse. Psi isn't the end all, be all weapon in the game, having been nerfed appropriately to be limited to LOS and made weaker overall. I'm kinda glad the new XCOM took the same route.

To be fair, Toxin C and Personal Teleporters are pretty damn broken, the latter hilariously broken in real time. I'd say Apoc still has collapsing difficulty, but it does take a little longer to fully manifest. I _definitely_ agree though that it has the best implementation of psionics hands down in the series, bar none, including the remake.

[shadow_archmagi]

Another reason why I loved Apocalypse. Psi isn't the end all, be all weapon in the game, having been nerfed appropriately to be limited to LOS and made weaker overall. I'm kinda glad the new XCOM took the same route.

The new XCOM actually buffs Psi relative to Apoc- You no longer need to maintain LOS to maintain psi, and almost everything is mind-controllable.

The real nerf in Apoc is that essentially everything scary is immune to psi. (Although a cloaked skeletoid with a dimension gun is pretty scary)

[Surrealistik]

The new XCOM actually buffs Psi relative to Apoc- You no longer need to maintain LOS to maintain psi, and almost everything is mind-controllable.

The real nerf in Apoc is that essentially everything scary is immune to psi. (Although a cloaked skeletoid with a dimension gun is pretty scary)

TBH, requiring LoS is a pretty huge and material nerf of psionics in Apoc vs the remake and prior X-Coms.

That most alien enemies have decent psi resistance or outright immunity is of course a major element as well.

[Grif]

TBH, requiring LoS is a pretty huge and material nerf of psionics in Apoc vs the remake and prior X-Coms.


Exactly this.

In Enemy Unknown, all you need to breeze through even a Battleship assault is a full complement of psionics, about six would be enough.

Send your rookie in to spot the first alien. Then MC that alien. Use that alien to gain LOS of his allies. MC that one. And so on and so forth.

It also works in reverse, with your entire complement of rookies being MC on turn 3 by Ethereals if you're unlucky.

[RagingKrikkit]

The best part is that if they see even ONE of your troops, they will proceed to psi mob whoever has the weakest psi defense, usually the one with the blaster bombs.

[Cikomyr]

The best part is that if they see even ONE of your troops, they will proceed to psi mob whoever has the weakest psi defense, usually the one with the blaster bombs.

Let's be fair here. You would do the exact same thing if the situation was reversed.

[Sharoth]

Let's be fair here. You would do the exact same thing if the situation was reversed.

~whistles innocently and slowly backs away from the thread~

[Surrealistik]

Nothing like taking on a landed Snakeman battleship on Superhuman at night while iron manning with just t-shirts, smoke nades, laspistols, autocannons and high explosives and coming out on top.

Lost my tank (Chryssie tore it to shreds) and 1 guy from a stray plasma rifle autofire burst meant for my tank (he was concealed by smoke). 1 guy was KOed by a stun launcher and 2 others were wounded by spreading flames, lol.

[Anarion]

Let's be fair here. You would do the exact same thing if the situation was reversed.

That's why your low willpower troops don't get "carry a weapon" privileges.

[shadow_archmagi]

Welp. Just finished Apoc.

That was perhaps the closest to a sane difficulty curve I've seen yet from Xcom.

[zenoisy]

my friends always talking about this game, should get it

[Gnoman]

Welp. Just finished Apoc.

That was perhaps the closest to a sane difficulty curve I've seen yet from Xcom.

My one real criticism with Apocalypse was the wasted potential. Ground vehicles were completely useless (destroying the road would destroy even the most powerful tank, and that was extremely easy with a near-miss), there wasn't enough interplay of the other factions, and damage didn't carry over from the city to tactical (or vice-versa). It would have been great to fire missiles at a building right before attacking it, and have the building be damaged because of this.

[RagingKrikkit]

Firaxis is sitting on millions if they can pull off a remake that has all the depth MicroProse wanted to do with Apoc.

[Grif]

My one real criticism with Apocalypse was the wasted potential. Ground vehicles were completely useless (destroying the road would destroy even the most powerful tank, and that was extremely easy with a near-miss), there wasn't enough interplay of the other factions, and damage didn't carry over from the city to tactical (or vice-versa). It would have been great to fire missiles at a building right before attacking it, and have the building be damaged because of this.

I do believe there were mods that was able to increase the toughness of the road to the point where ground vehicles were actually usable.

[Gnoman]

Really? I was never able to find any Apocalypse mods.

[Surrealistik]

Such a mod does exist, though I don't recall from where. A quick google search should turn it up though.

Also OpenXcom (http://openxcom.org/) is pretty sweet, I strongly recommend it.

[chiasaur11]

Really? I was never able to find any Apocalypse mods.

Check strategycore.co.uk. They should have what you need. At least, they did last I checked.

[Name_Here]

Have been trying to finish a Classic Ironman Marathon game and I think I finally broke it wide open.

Have a Col Assualt, Sniper and Heavy. My highest ranked Support keeps on getting wounded so he's a Major. And I'm starting to break into Carapace armor.

[RagingKrikkit]

Wait, you've got colonels and no armor? That's... probably not a good idea.

[Anarion]

Wait, you've got colonels and no armor? That's... probably not a good idea.

I think that's normal for marathon. Can't remember right about what it does to extend the length of the game.

[RagingKrikkit]

Oh, marathon *facepalm*. Yeah, I've got no clue what the norm there is.

[Derthric]

So they have finally dished on what Enemy Within will be. And its an xpack for Enemy Unknown.

IGN has a preview. No word on any strategy layer changes.....yet!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/21/xcom-enemy-within-announced-tons-of-details

[Anarion]

So they have finally dished on what Enemy Within will be. And its an xpack for Enemy Unknown.

IGN has a preview. No word on any strategy layer changes.....yet!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/21/xcom-enemy-within-announced-tons-of-details

That nearly sounds like an entirely new game using the same engine. Especially if you go for the optional stuff they mention like randomizing all the class abilities. Though with the kind of luck that XCOM games have, we'll end up with squadsight heavies with no aim and snipers that get a free shot when within 4 squares of an enemy.

[chiasaur11]

Flamethrowers, the ability to turn your grunts into space marines (Double up on feels no fear, include the optional invisibility, and let's skip the acid spit for now), and mech suits that punch things so hard everything explodes?

Yeah, I think I might be up for another tour of duty.

[Sharoth]

Oh SNAP!!! SOLD!!! Damn! I want this!

[Cikomyr]

It's hard not to understand why. XCom was a superbe game already, really fun, tactical and explorative.

But yet, it was... so thin. I mean, there is so much stuff you can potentially further add to the game in term of crunchy things, at both the strategic and tactical level. They have plenty of room to do 4-5 worthwhile expansions, even going in standalone ones.

edit: which is why the freakkin' DLC was so... shallow, in my opinion

[Sharoth]

Are you talking about the first DLC that was 3 missions only? Yea, that was not too impressive. Hopefully this new DLC will be better.

[Cikomyr]

There were other DLCs?


Let's not confused a DLC with a full-blown expansion, please :smallbiggrin:

[Sharoth]

~grins~ Good point.

[Krade]

Did anyone else get The Bureau? It's pretty good fun if somewhat mediocre. Basically, they tried to do everything I thought they should've when I first heard of the FPS.

It plays similarly to Mass Effect, but your individual team mates are somewhat less useful on their own. You have to issue orders. Frequently. They never use their abilities unless you tell them to (I believe this was described as a feature, since you will never be without an important ability in a pinch because the AI used it on something it didn't need). The squad's four classes are varied (if unimaginative) and each greatly affect the team's combat style. I haven't experimented with squad make-up yet, I figured I'd wait until I had one of each of the classes to max level.

Story-wise, I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea that everything that's happening in this game is completely out of the public's eyes. Entire towns are destroyed (one with over 40,000 people. No survivors). Even though this is the 60s and most electronic communication has been jammed, these events are just plain too big to go unnoticed by the populace. Aside from that, they stay fairly true to XCOM lore.

As far as gripes go, I don't have many: There isn't much base management. The base is too big/difficult to navigate. Texture pop-ins. Once one of my team mates walked through me and I couldn't move while it was happening (relatively minor glitch and who knows how common it might be). The missions are extremely linear. The entire thing has a feel of being unpolished, which, while it doesn't impact the gameplay much, it is ever-present.

I'd recommend the game to anyone who likes Mass Effect and XCOM. Though perhaps wait for it to go on sale/drop in price. I'm pleased enough with my purchase that I don't regret paying full price.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, my impressions on the Bureau is that it's both good and bad. The strategy aspect is non-existent. Squadmates are free. Research means looting. It's missing a crucial option, the ability to tell your squad to not engage the enemy. But that can be worked around by using F1 or battle trance to tell them to move somewhere else. However, the game is hard, I've had to reload a lot on Veteran and it forces me to make use of abilities and my squadmates (who have infinite ammo, while I don't, so if they can shoot down an enemy while I just use my abilities to help them, that means no resources are expended except for the minute or so it takes to recharge the abilities), and the enemy tactics and troop composition makes much more sense than in the rest of the series, and we get an explanation on how the exploding guns thing works (they're tied to a mechanism on the hand). Overall, it seems like the alien tactics and technology is much better though-out, but the strategy from mission control is non-existent.

[OrcusMcP]

Now that Enemy Within (http://www.xcom.com/enemywithin/us/) has been announced, who wants to run a squad of nothing but Terminators?

[huttj509]

Did anyone else get The Bureau? It's pretty good fun if somewhat mediocre. Basically, they tried to do everything I thought they should've when I first heard of the FPS.

It plays similarly to Mass Effect, but your individual team mates are somewhat less useful on their own. You have to issue orders. Frequently. They never use their abilities unless you tell them to (I believe this was described as a feature, since you will never be without an important ability in a pinch because the AI used it on something it didn't need). The squad's four classes are varied (if unimaginative) and each greatly affect the team's combat style. I haven't experimented with squad make-up yet, I figured I'd wait until I had one of each of the classes to max level.

Story-wise, I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea that everything that's happening in this game is completely out of the public's eyes. Entire towns are destroyed (one with over 40,000 people. No survivors). Even though this is the 60s and most electronic communication has been jammed, these events are just plain too big to go unnoticed by the populace. Aside from that, they stay fairly true to XCOM lore.

As far as gripes go, I don't have many: There isn't much base management. The base is too big/difficult to navigate. Texture pop-ins. Once one of my team mates walked through me and I couldn't move while it was happening (relatively minor glitch and who knows how common it might be). The missions are extremely linear. The entire thing has a feel of being unpolished, which, while it doesn't impact the gameplay much, it is ever-present.

I'd recommend the game to anyone who likes Mass Effect and XCOM. Though perhaps wait for it to go on sale/drop in price. I'm pleased enough with my purchase that I don't regret paying full price.

I'm 5 hours in and enjoying it. Especially after I tweaked some Physx and reflections off, though I still have some smoothness issues.

I rather like the squad mechanics. For an xcom spinoff I definitely prefer the frequent squad micromanagement need compared to ME's "eh, they'll be fine, just focus on yourself." In The bureau, you're playing the support guy (healing, target control, minions), and your allies get the big "boom" abilities (wish I could give my engineer something other than a shotgun, I dislike trying to send him in close).

While I myself have died a few times, haven't lost any guys yet (on the default 3rd difficulty), and when I've died I've generally felt like I "earned" it, and go back with tactics to better use the terrain (and hucking a fistful of grenades at the mutons).

[RagingKrikkit]

Now that Enemy Within (http://www.xcom.com/enemywithin/us/) has been announced, who wants to run a squad of nothing but Terminators?

What I find interesting about this is how much closer it brings the XCOM project to the aliens. Throughout Enemy Unknown the aliens have four distinct advantages over humanity: technology, cybernetic augmentation, genetic manipulation and psionics. The XCOM project eventually gains control of the first and last, but the other two are never really brought into the game, simply being fluff or graphic design.

Until now.

Now XCOM is diving into all the areas the aliens came at us with, and what are the consequences of that? Take a look at these (WARNING screen stretchers):

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/08/XCOM_EW_Screen_012.jpg

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/08/XCOM_EW_Screen_009.jpg

That's an XCOM soldier who appears to have had her skull removed from her body and attatched to a mechanical exoskeleton, ar at the least, had her arms and legs replaced. Just like a floater. Presumably genetic modification will not have quite the same visual impact, the effects will be the same: we make ourselves more like the aliens. We are inviting the enemy's ways into us, and in our attempt to save our planet and our collective existance, we are making ourselves something other than human. Dr. Shen spends Enemy Unknown wondering if the aliens were once like us, but were corrupted by their discoveries, their compassion and empathy drowned out by tampering with their minds and bodies.

We are going to find out the hard way.

[Hiro Protagonest]

We are going to find out the hard way.

We are indeed. (http://ethics.calpoly.edu/Greenwall_report.pdf)

[Wookieetank]

Interesting thought of the day: What if the aliens are just humans from the future?

[Name_Here]

Oh, marathon *facepalm*. Yeah, I've got no clue what the norm there is.

Well starting out autopsies take 8 days.

I've run this game multiple times and I need to rush rush rush the Laser weaponry out the door or else terror mission #1 is a bloodbath.

And so far I've had 3 deaths so I'm doing something right.

[Sharoth]

What is the quickest way to get lasers on Marathon?

[Name_Here]

What is the quickest way to get lasers on Marathon?

You have to get a little lucky like I did but I went for the scientist reward my first abduction mission which hopefully cuts the research time in half which should get you to beam weapons by the time the first terror mission hits. After that it's a matter of having enough engineers to make them 15 for the laser rifle.

I managed to get it by taking the abduction mission that granted me engineers and getting a request that gave me the last few.

[Sharoth]

That makes sense.

[tonberrian]

Yes unequip troops not in transport button worth the expansion all on its own.

[nooblade]

The XCOM: Enemy Within trailer make it look like they're adding something to the end of the game after the previous ending rather than to the middle. It seemed to me that the early parts of the game were really strong, peaking right around the first terror mission, but then it fell off a while after introducing mutons. On replaying it anyway. When I first saw this I expected a new game. Then I was even more excited for changes to the Enemy Unknown campaign. I wonder if the mild let down I'm feeling now is at all justifiable. I didn't think the trailer was very good at all, just saying.

Anyway, I was trying to play the original MicroProse game with openXcom on Beginner. I suppose I'm not a masochist so I'll use ufopaedia as a resource.

Even managed to capture a Sectoid Leader and research psionics. Neat, but the next step is to do the training and get psi-amps I guess.

I can't shake the feeling that there's something wrong with my sweeping strategy. I tend to lose 1-2 recruits per mission, sometimes someone important, and often have my soldiers exposed to something (floater, sectoid, maybe even a cyberdisc) a squad of at least four can't auto-fire down with laser rifles. I think my HWP are destroyed about half as often as they fire rockets, although the rockets were useful against cyberdisks. Even my 70-80 accuracy vets can't hit on auto shots! And aimed shots might not improve hit rate either for their TU cost. At first I thought the extra enemies were really neat but it's starting to turn into a chore.

So, one idea and questions:


Is it worthwhile to give motion scanners to scouts? Would that speed up scouting or make it safer?

Is there something I'm doing wrong with my HWP "scout" that causes it to be destroyed? It costs more than recruits with after all.

How could I more reliably cause shooty death?

Should I rely more on grenades for alien killing? Or maybe a backup for one of my squad members to resort to.


And for fun:

Has any strange internet person tried to play an XCOM game as a pacifist? And was it funny? And can I watch their comedic self-torture?

[Surrealistik]

Is it worthwhile to give motion scanners to scouts? Would that speed up scouting or make it safer?

Is there something I'm doing wrong with my HWP "scout" that causes it to be destroyed? It costs more than recruits with after all.

How could I more reliably cause shooty death?

Should I rely more on grenades for alien killing? Or maybe a backup for one of my squad members to resort to.


#1: Scanners are good for UFO entries.

#2: Bum rushing areas with no smoke cover, unsecured flanks.

#3: More dakka. Also use grenades instead.

#4: Yes. High explosives are master race and everyone should become proficient/loaded down with them ASAP.

[tyckspoon]

I'm not familiar with openXcom, so take some grains of salt here where they might have changed things or just not re-created them accurately, but for original XCom:

Blow up *everything*. If you can't see your way into somewhere, hit it with rockets, grenades, laser beams, or High Explosives as needed until you can. Facechecking a corner or a door is for dead people. (High Explosives will level everything short of UFO walls, and it can clear certain of those. You will lose people clearing intact UFOs because of this. Bring some expendables.) I like to bring a Rocket HWP and a strong rookie whose only job is lug around like 5 heavy explosives. The HWP is primarily for leveling sight-blocking terrain with its large supply of rockets, secondarily for scouting with its high movement ability once the sight lines are cleared, and finally for taking out a target everybody else has missed by putting a rocket into the ground/wall near it. (Ideally, somebody throws a grenade to the same effect, because the HWP can't gain XP toward any skills for killing things.)

Taking a knee improves accuracy and makes your squaddies a smaller target. If you're having trouble shooting things, spare some TU to drop down. If you're still having trouble shooting things, curse the RNG and try again. Or sprint right up to the target's face and shoot from there, because at point blank it doesn't matter how accurate your shot is.

..uh.. try and acquire flight suits, blaster bombs, and psi. Any one of those used correctly can trivialize the game. 2 or 3 of them puts it to where you have to be trying to throw it (but try to ID your Psi-resistant soldiers before you start handing out blaster launchers.)

[Grif]

..uh.. try and acquire flight suits, blaster bombs, and psi. Any one of those used correctly can trivialize the game. 2 or 3 of them puts it to where you have to be trying to throw it (but try to ID your Psi-resistant soldiers before you start handing out blaster launchers.)

Or just don't give it to them until you started on Psi. :smalltongue:

High Explosives, Plasma weaponry and HWPs will serve even until the end game.

[Krade]

Finished up The Bureau. I have to say they ended it pretty fantastically (hell of a twist, there at the end). Suspension of disbelief still suffers. "Yes we pretended that thousands upon thousands of civilians and military personnel didn't just die. What of it? It's not like any of those people had families or anything." The whole thing lasts for months (it doesn't give a specific timetable, but the clues are there) and the whole time communications and basic utilities are down in major urban centers and the public doesn't even bat an eye? I call BS. There's even more than this but specifying would be spoilers.

Still really pleased with it. They tied it into Enemy Unknown subtly, but if you played them both, you'd definitely be able to point it out. Definitely worth playing for fans of the series. Whether or not it's worth full retail price would vary from person to person.

[Tengu_temp]

Has any strange internet person tried to play an XCOM game as a pacifist? And was it funny? And can I watch their comedic self-torture?

X-Com/Ufo Enemy Unknown or new XCOM? It's easier to do in the former, with stun rods available from the start, small launchers mid-game and psi-amps in endgame. In the latter, that means researching the arc thrower ASAP (and hoping all the aliens you have to kill before that will forgive you) and giving it to pretty much all your soldiers. Can you soften down aliens for stunning with normal weaponry, as long as you don't kill them?

Either way, sounds like a decent challenge game for a veteran. I saw people do crazier stuff, like the X-Com one ship challenge.

[Grif]

Either way, sounds like a decent challenge game for a veteran. I saw people do crazier stuff, like the X-Com one ship challenge.

There was also the Hawaii one base challenge. Was pretty insane.

[Surrealistik]

Or sprint right up to the target's face and shoot from there, because at point blank it doesn't matter how accurate your shot is.

This. Laser pistols (best attack/TU ratio) + high explosives are my personal favourite outside of the broken/OP stuff (Blaster Bombs and Psi) the latter being obvious go tos for robbing the game of any and all challenge. Charging aliens from a blind spot (or those that lack TUs) to drop them execution style from very close/point blank range is by far the most reliable way to kill with ranged precision weaponry.

But if you want to be truly safe, chuck an explosive.

I typically throw down with an autofiring line while reserving 1-2 guys that have high explosives on standby to hurl if all else fails.

Usually my deployment consists of a group of soldiers moving along in smoke cover with one high reactions (heavily armoured if possible) scout spotting for them. Spot -> shoot -> and if necessary toss.


On crazy challenges, I can't say I'm masochistic enough to try them.

[Kizor]

Anyway, I was trying to play the original MicroProse game with openXcom on Beginner. I suppose I'm not a masochist so I'll use ufopaedia as a resource.

That's fun. You may be getting a pretty rare perspective. The "unknown" in "enemy unknown" was obliterated years ago for me and for almost everyone I know who plays the original, to the extent that it's good to see someone who can't name every alien off the top of his head play it.

That said, it aged a whole lot when the 2012 game came out. I can't fault you for using the wiki.

One thing you should know is that taking casualties on every mission is perfectly normal and to be expected. Your soldiers are never going to stop being fragile. But at the same time you can make a difference for your veterans' survival, although it may seem otherwise when a Cyberdisk appears from the smoke and kills your dearest captain. I'm torn between giving you some of my favourite tactics tips and letting you come up with them on your own. (Or reading them from the wiki. That's where I got a number of 'em.)

This bears quoting for emphasis, though:


Blow up *everything*. If you can't see your way into somewhere, hit it with rockets, grenades, laser beams, or High Explosives as needed until you can. Facechecking a corner or a door is for dead people.

Egad, yes. I can't believe how long it took for me to stop even checking possible hiding spots for aliens and just detonating them. I usually get by with just a rocket tank and a rocket launcher, with grenades and the occasional hi-explosive for backup. (Strength affects the distance you can throw hi-explosives, btw) I scout with the tank, too, though I lose a whole lot of tanks that way.


I'm not familiar with openXcom, so take some grains of salt here where they might have changed things or just not re-created them accurately, but for original XCom:

openXcom is incredibly accurate. For the most part, a player will only know that they aren't playing the original because of the improvements! There are a lot of interface tweaks like radar ranges on the geoscape and soldiers stats on the equip screen, and a number of optional gameplay changes like making explosions propagate better vertically, making the destructive environment work even better. And Cyberdiscs even more of a pain! Hurray!

The version I played had a couple of visible bugs: an occasional scrolling problem, a couple of manufacturing projects completing in zero hours without output - though in fairness, I also discovered that hovertank pieces can clog the last ship's ramp when a blaster bomb caught on them.

[Ailurus]

Either way, sounds like a decent challenge game for a veteran. I saw people do crazier stuff, like the X-Com one ship challenge.

Pacifist isn't viable in the Firaxis version (at least on classic and impossible) just due to mathematics (even ignoring the fact that you'll have to kill guys before you can get the arc thrower, weaken enemies with weapon fire, and there's guys you have to kill simply because the thrower doesn't affect).

Recently started a new classic difficulty campaign, and on the first abduction mission there were 8 sectoids. Even if I had arc throwers and all four of my guys had one, that's 8 shots. And even if I somehow managed to drop each of those guys to 1 HP before zapping them, there's still only about a 44% chance that I'll manage to take out all 8 sectoids. And the max number of shots/mission will only go up to 12 which is still insufficient to deal with all the levels, especially those council missions who will drop 4-6+ thin men down on top of you after you complete the first part of the mission.

[Teln]

I've got a question about Ghost Armor. Does its wearer have to be in cover at all times for the stealth field to work, or just during the beginning and end of his move?

[Krade]

I've got a question about Ghost Armor. Does its wearer have to be in cover at all times for the stealth field to work, or just during the beginning and end of his move?

I found out the hard way in the MP that, even though the description makes it sound like you need to be in cover, that line is, in fact, total BS. I found that out by trying to reveal a unit in ghost armor by flanking him (like the description seemed to imply) only to realize that it doesn't work and continue on to lose that match. So no. If the character is cloaked, they can't be seen or targeted. Period. They don't need to be in cover at any point and they don't need to be out of sight when they cloak.

[RagingKrikkit]

No, it's that they need to be against cover, but not behind it. If they're standing out in the open, they're fair game, but if they have a shield of any color by their health, then you're untouchable.

[Asheram]

Oh, Praise Jah, OpenXcom made even better.

About a week old info but they finally implemented inventory management outside missions and object stacking in the inventory screen.

Just wanted to share these glorious news. :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah, my impressions on the Bureau is that it's both good and bad. The strategy aspect is non-existent. Squadmates are free. Research means looting. It's missing a crucial option, the ability to tell your squad to not engage the enemy. But that can be worked around by using F1 or battle trance to tell them to move somewhere else. However, the game is hard, I've had to reload a lot on Veteran and it forces me to make use of abilities and my squadmates (who have infinite ammo, while I don't, so if they can shoot down an enemy while I just use my abilities to help them, that means no resources are expended except for the minute or so it takes to recharge the abilities), and the enemy tactics and troop composition makes much more sense than in the rest of the series, and we get an explanation on how the exploding guns thing works (they're tied to a mechanism on the hand). Overall, it seems like the alien tactics and technology is much better though-out, but the strategy from mission control is non-existent.

I just finished it myself. I enjoyed it, but for some reason it just didn't "grab" me as well as it should have. I liked the combat, the lack of XCOM: EU style micromanagement and research didn't both me: if I want that, I've got EU (and, come November, it's expansion).

Mutons are finally scary. This was appreciated. Combat felt tense like it should, things could've gone very wrong very quickly. There's a reason to take any class as opposed to having some lag behind the others. The voice-acting was...okay...I guess. Some people really phoned it in.

I really liked the twist at the end. I'd kinda figured it out just a little before it was actually revealed, but I can hardly hold that against a storyline these days. I actually liked the characters and NPCs (especially one of my agents whom I think was voiced by Brandon Keener [Garrus] and basically did the same voice). You've got the pretty standard array of stock types, but they're all pretty interesting on their own. They oversold the amount of destruction the Outsiders are doing, and that's the main reason the "secret war" plotline falls through (I know that most people think central Illinois is all corn and cows, and they're not entirely wrong :smalltongue:, but wiping Champaign-Urbana off the map is going to be noticed)

There are choices to be made, but I can't tell if any of them have any real effect on the story and the checkpoint save system means I can't just go back and find out.

It'll probably go on sale over Christmas, check it out then. It's not a great game, but it is a good one.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Having gotten further, the difficulty seems to have some spikes. Once I got some more abilities and weapons, as well as the mindset to use the abilities, I breezed my way through all the missions up to Axis' capture and execution. I'm having some trouble now with the minor ops that come after it, but the first one I got through without reloading, and for the current one I traded out my standard squaddies and weapons (I switched out the Russian guy that I gave the laser turret for another engi with the rocket turret, and switched my recon with a commando, and I'm doubting the strength of the plasma minigun I took).

[Cristo Meyers]

Having gotten further, the difficulty seems to spike a bit. Once I got some more abilities and weapons, I breezed my way through all the missions up to Axis' capture and execution. I'm having some trouble now with the minor ops that come after it, but the first one I got through without reloading, and for the current one I traded out my standard squaddies and weapons (I switched out the Russian guy that I gave the laser turret for another engi with the rocket turret, and switched my recon with a commando, and I'm doubting the strength of the plasma minigun I took).

Axis was the one battle where I lost an agent (playying on Squaddie), and it was really touch-and-go for quite a bit of it.

I wasn't impressed with the plasma minigun, either. I stuck with the laser pulse rifle until I got the plasma assault cannon. I also preferred the recon to the commando, but I tend to get a lot more use out of units like them. As for turrets, I kinda wish I'd stuck with the laser turret. The rocket one just had too low a rate of fire.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Axis was the one battle where I lost an agent (playying on Squaddie), and it was really touch-and-go for quite a bit of it.

I died once when fighting Axis, but that was because of a tactical mistake I made that I quickly remedied (I tried to rush powering down the shield without taking time to kill the enemies first). I meant the missions after that are harder.

[KillianHawkeye]

Now that Enemy Within (http://www.xcom.com/enemywithin/us/) has been announced, who wants to run a squad of nothing but Terminators?

Having just found out about this, I think the thing that excites me the most is the 40+ new maps being included. The lack of map variety is mostly what made me start getting bored with the game. Hopefully we'll get a bunch of new troop customization options as well.

[thorgrim29]

Also, giant robot punching

[BRC]

am I the only one worried about power creep with Enemy Within? It seems like the MEC troopers are powerful enough that it won't make sense to run anything BUT a squad of terminators, fancy genemods aside. MEC Troopers can punch berserkers, blast cover to smithereens, and take quite a beating. I could see a Sniper maybe being still useful, but not much else.

[Impnemo]

You mean it might pose a balance issue where XCOM becomes too easy late game once you have completed all relevant technology research and builds? Meet the new problem, same as the old problem?

[BRC]

You mean it might pose a balance issue where XCOM becomes too easy late game once you have completed all relevant technology research and builds? Meet the new problem, same as the old problem?

I would call end-game XCOM less a "Problem" and more a "Reward". That's half the appeal of XCOM

You start the game with some scared rookies, totally overmatched by the enemy. Then, you take the enemy's technology and turn it against them. Your rookies get stronger, your equipment gets better. Soon you feel like you can take the enemy on equal footing. Then, it's a matter of crushing the aliens, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their sectoids.

I mean it may lead to a situation where the only troopers worth using are MEC troopers. Where all rookies who don't go MEC get permabenched, because why would you bring the guy with the shotgun when you could bring another terminator

I suppose the MEC's inability to use cover will be a major factor though. MEC troopers, while durable, will be taking a lot of damage over the course of a mission. This means they'll probably spend lots of time in sickbay, and you'll need standard wallhuggers to scout out and harass the enemy, not exposing your MEC until you're sure you can quickly clear the area.

[OrcusMcP]

am I the only one worried about power creep with Enemy Within? It seems like the MEC troopers are powerful enough that it won't make sense to run anything BUT a squad of terminators, fancy genemods aside. MEC Troopers can punch berserkers, blast cover to smithereens, and take quite a beating. I could see a Sniper maybe being still useful, but not much else.

Some information I read detailed that the enemy mechs, combined with some beefed up Mutons and Ethereals should keep the challenge alive.

Plus, don't underestimate the power of the random number god, especially in Xcom.

[BRC]

Some information I read detailed that the enemy mechs, combined with some beefed up Mutons and Ethereals should keep the challenge alive.

Plus, don't underestimate the power of the random number god, especially in Xcom.

As I said above, I'm not worried about challenge, I'm worried about diversity, specifically the idea that anything but an all-MEC team is a considerable handicap.

[shadow_archmagi]

I just hope the new changes make it so that rolling around in a big pile of overwatch isn't the end-all strategy anymore.

[Ailurus]

I just hope the new changes make it so that rolling around in a big pile of overwatch isn't the end-all strategy anymore.

It sounds like they're trying to address that. At a minimum, recovering Meld will be time-dependent, so the big slow-moving overwatch ball could quite possibly run into a decided lack of that, from the sound of things. (Of course, it depends on how they actually implement it, but the fact that they're aware of it is a positive sign in my opinion).

[KillianHawkeye]

As an aside, why is everybody referring to MEC Troopers as Terminators? They are clearly more similar to RoboCops. :smallconfused::smallwink:

[BRC]

As an aside, why is everybody referring to MEC Troopers as Terminators? They are clearly more similar to RoboCops. :smallconfused::smallwink:

Really, we should be calling them Ripleys.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You mean Space Marines.

[RagingKrikkit]

You have five seconds to comply, and I know no fear. Hasta la vista, you bitch.

[t209]

If you can bring all your saves from previous games and Iskandar decided to make a let's play, I am going in as MEC Trooper. Plus, the MEC trooper (http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/XCOM-Enemy-Within-MEC-Trooper.jpg) remind me of a certain Half Japanese Half White scientist (http://www.1amgeek.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/outfitting.jpeg).

[chiasaur11]

You mean Space Marines.

That's the genemods.

If "They Shall Know No Fear" wasn't enough of a tipoff, they even have two hearts!

[KillianHawkeye]

Not sure if anybody else noticed, but there's been a new trailer for XCOM: Enemy Within.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd9CmpLZVMI

The trailer reveals a new enemy, a human organization called EXALT, which seems to have the same classes of units as your XCOM team. They also apparently are able to infiltrate your base and give Bradford something to do besides chatter on the comms.

[Surrealistik]

TBH, I find the EXALT concept of a wannabe Illuminati that seeks to gather alien tech in order to TAKE OVER TEH WORLD pretty silly. Would have preferred either alien sympathizers per the Cult of Sirius in X-Com Apocalypse, or more dev time spent on the aliens.


Love the Squadsight nerf and Snap Shot buff both, though I don't think either goes nearly far enough. Also love the Sniper hate in the form of Seekers; as a leading cause of collapsing difficulty, this class (especially Opportunist Squadsight builds) deserves it and more.

Squadsight should also have a substantial accuracy penalty (per the Long War mod, which decreases by 5% for each spotter) and offer no Overwatch coverage, while Snap Shot should have a reduced crit chance, not a reduced hit chance. Even then Squadsight would probably still be the better option by a significant margin.


Also the Long War mod is awesome, adds a **** ton of new options, shifts the balance so there isn't completely dominant and centralizing strategies (Satellite spam), improves class balance for the most part and makes an attempt to address collapsing difficulty by increasing normalization of early and late game difficulty. For all these reasons and more I wholly recommend it, especially the version after Enemy Within is released:

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/88

[RagingKrikkit]

So that's what "Within" means.

EDIT: Go watch the original EW announcement trailer. You can see the Exalt insignia for a fraction of a second before the signal loost icon appears.

[Surrealistik]

So that's what "Within" means.

EDIT: Go watch the original EW announcement trailer. You can see the Exalt insignia for a fraction of a second before the signal loost icon appears.

It also refers to the less literal Nietzschean abyssgazing X-Com does in the expansion via cybernetic and bioengineering per Buckminster Fuller's opening quote:

“Those who play with the devil's toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword.”

[KillianHawkeye]

Love the Squadsight nerf and Snap Shot buff both, though I don't think either goes nearly far enough.

I had to read the XCOM wiki to find out what you're talking about. I agree in the sense that Squadsight is still much better than Snap Shot, but I like Squadsight and I don't want to see it nerfed a lot.

I'm personally more concerned about the nerf to HEAT Ammo, coupled with the boosts to sectopods. As if they weren't bad enough already!

Overall, though, it's a pretty impressive list of changes and new abilities, and I'm very happy with getting more customization options (especially MORE VOICES).

[BRC]

I had to read the XCOM wiki to find out what you're talking about. I agree in the sense that Squadsight is still much better than Snap Shot, but I like Squadsight and I don't want to see it nerfed a lot.

I'm personally more concerned about the nerf to HEAT Ammo, coupled with the boosts to sectopods. As if they weren't bad enough already!

Overall, though, it's a pretty impressive list of changes and new abilities, and I'm very happy with getting more customization options (especially MORE VOICES).

Could you link to the relevant page? I can't find anything

[RagingKrikkit]

It also refers to the less literal Nietzschean abyssgazing X-Com does in the expansion via cybernetic and bioengineering per Buckminster Fuller's opening quote:

“Those who play with the devil's toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword.”

I did have a few hundred words about that on the last page. This, however, feels more like what the offical reason for the name is. That is, assuming that nobody who makes or plays games has any knowledge of philosophy.

[KillianHawkeye]

Could you link to the relevant page? I can't find anything

Sure. Warning: Extreme Info!

http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within




EDIT:

This is news to me, but to anybody else who is a console XCOM player like me, apparently Enemy Within was "too big" to be released as DLC. Instead, it's being released as a standalone on disc for $40, containing the complete XCOM: Enemy Unknown experience including previous DLCs along with all the new content.

This is gonna throw a wrench into my attempts at earning those last few achievements on the original game, because I'll have to choose between playing Enemy Within (with an all new set of achievements) and the original Enemy Unknown. :smallfrown:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/02/xcom-enemy-within-too-big-to-be-dlc-on-xbox-360-ps3/

[Cikomyr]

Sure. Warning: Extreme Info!

http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within




EDIT:

This is news to me, but to anybody else who is a console XCOM player like me, apparently Enemy Within was "too big" to be released as DLC. Instead, it's being released as a standalone on disc for $40, containing the complete XCOM: Enemy Unknown experience including previous DLCs along with all the new content.

This is gonna throw a wrench into my attempts at earning those last few achievements on the original game, because I'll have to choose between playing Enemy Within (with an all new set of achievements) and the original Enemy Unknown. :smallfrown:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/02/xcom-enemy-within-too-big-to-be-dlc-on-xbox-360-ps3/

First World Problem :smalltongue:

[RagingKrikkit]

Okay, so that's why the consoles are getting it as a full game. I don't really mind, except that I already dropped sixty bucks for this game once.

Oh, well, at least it's double the achievements. Heck, maybe they'll even reuse some of the EU ones, so we essentially get free gamerscore.

[Krade]

Okay, so that's why the consoles are getting it as a full game. I don't really mind, except that I already dropped sixty bucks for this game once.

Oh, well, at least it's double the achievements. Heck, maybe they'll even reuse some of the EU ones, so we essentially get free gamerscore.

Now if only gamerscore actually mattered...

[RagingKrikkit]

The Xbox Rewards program gives you store credit rebates on your Xbox Live Marketplace purchaces, scaling up by gamerscore.

http://rewards.xbox.com/

[Artanis]

Love the Squadsight nerf and Snap Shot buff both, though I don't think either goes nearly far enough. Also love the Sniper hate in the form of Seekers; as a leading cause of collapsing difficulty, this class (especially Opportunist Squadsight builds) deserves it and more.

Squadsight should also have a substantial accuracy penalty (per the Long War mod, which decreases by 5% for each spotter) and offer no Overwatch coverage, while Snap Shot should have a reduced crit chance, not a reduced hit chance. Even then Squadsight would probably still be the better option by a significant margin.
In and of themselves, I'd agree with you regarding the Squadsight and Snap Shot changes. However, a lot of Squadsight's power relative to Snap Shot comes from being able to park a Sniper on a roof and leave him there for the rest of the mission...and the addition of the Seeker Strangler makes that strategy very risky.

Only time will tell whether the Seeker Strangler will be enough to balance the two out the rest of the way, of course, but it's worth noting at least. *shrug*



http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within
Many thanks! :smallbiggrin:



Edit: Wrong name

[Surrealistik]

In and of themselves, I'd agree with you regarding the Squadsight and Snap Shot changes. However, a lot of Squadsight's power relative to Snap Shot comes from being able to park a Sniper on a roof and leave him there for the rest of the mission...and the addition of the Strangler makes that strategy very risky.

Only time will tell whether the Strangler will be enough to balance the two out the rest of the way, of course, but it's worth noting at least. *shrug*

The problem is that there's an implant which makes the sniper immune to strangulation. Couple that with Gunslinger (which is another obvious pick)/the Sniper shooting something at point blank and your second Squadsight sniper hanging back to provide mutual cover for the other and yeah, it's hard to see SS' supremacy being legitimately challenged in the slightest.

[KillianHawkeye]

First World Problem :smalltongue:

:smallredface:


Okay, so that's why the consoles are getting it as a full game. I don't really mind, except that I already dropped sixty bucks for this game once.

It seems to be only $10 more than what the PC players are paying for the DLC version.

[RagingKrikkit]

I'm not saying it's a legitamite concern, but since it's on another disc, or perhaps because I've never heard of DLC this expensive, I feel like "I already paid for this game, and now you're offering me an improved version for less?"

[Ailurus]

I'm not saying it's a legitamite concern, but since it's on another disc, or perhaps because I've never heard of DLC this expensive, I feel like "I already paid for this game, and now you're offering me an improved version for less?"

Well, according to Firaxis, you can blame Microsoft for limiting the size of DLCs. On a more financial note, the combined version does give you the Slingshot and Elite Soldiers DLC if you don't have them already.

[BRC]

I'm not saying it's a legitamite concern, but since it's on another disc, or perhaps because I've never heard of DLC this expensive, I feel like "I already paid for this game, and now you're offering me an improved version for less?"
They used to have those all the time, they were called "Expansion Packs", which never really existed for consoles.

[Opperhapsen]

Sure. Warning: Extreme Info!

http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within

Guys.
There's an achievement called "Zom-b-Gone".
There's gonna be zombies.

They're also gonna buff the sectopod.
Which was totally necessary, since they also nerfed HEAT ammo. :smallfrown:

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, I totally don't get that decision; half damage on Sectopods despite a HEAT nerf? What the actual ****.

I guess they really, _really_ want to make HEAT mandatory and/or hype up Sectopods as an unstoppable force that demands stuff like Disabling Shot and Suppression rather than just overwhelming firepower to deal with. Either that or the Mech/Bio upgrades are so strong as to warrant this.

[RagingKrikkit]

Well, according to Firaxis, you can blame Microsoft for limiting the size of DLCs. On a more financial note, the combined version does give you the Slingshot and Elite Soldiers DLC if you don't have them already.

Preordered XCOM so I got the Elite, but I guess Slingshot is nice, although my problem there is that it feels just a little too scripted in a game that's trying this hard to be freeform. Then again, boarding a battleship in flight...


They used to have those all the time, they were called "Expansion Packs", which never really existed for consoles.

Yeah, the collector's editions and what not. Let's see, I got that for Rollercoaster Tycoon and SimCity 4... ah, whatever, I'm going to get it anyway.


Yeah, I totally don't get that decision; half damage on Sectopods despite a HEAT nerf? What the actual ****.

I guess they really, _really_ want to make HEAT mandatory and/or hype up Sectopods as an unstoppable force. Either that or the Mech/Bio upgrades are so strong as to warrant this.

I'd guess that they're not making HEAT ammo mandatory, they're making MECs mandatory. The other possibility is that with all the new stuff XCOM can use, they needed a way to keep the game challenging.

[Inspector Valin]

Yeah.... keep in mind, as someone who never uses HEAT ammo, the main challenge I've always had with Sectopods is getting my squad into a good position for combined arms fire against the ratted thing. The legs upgrade that lets you make insane jumps just made positioning quite a bit easier. And by the time of late game, you're likely going to have that, if Meld starts spawning from the beginning.

My main worry is strategic. The period before you have satellites up is already a fairly tough one, and now they're throwing EXALT into that. We don't know when they trigger, but still.... potentially, that's something to really fear early game

[Surrealistik]

I'd guess that they're not making HEAT ammo mandatory, they're making MECs mandatory. The other possibility is that with all the new stuff XCOM can use, they needed a way to keep the game challenging.

You'd think they'd add a less stopgap, more normalized way of heightening difficulty, though I did explicitly mention the changes may be due to the mech elements being so strong.

As also mentioned, I think the other half of it may be discontent with how easily Sectopods are taken down, and a desire to force players to use methods other than brute force to destroy them.

[BRC]

Yeah, I totally don't get that decision; half damage on Sectopods despite a HEAT nerf? What the actual ****.

I guess they really, _really_ want to make HEAT mandatory and/or hype up Sectopods as an unstoppable force.

Maybe their trying to balance out the fact that Mech troopers are now a thing? Sectopods were already tough enough before.

[Surrealistik]

I've honestly never found Sectopods problematic given HEAT ammo by the end game; they always went down quickly to Bullet Swarm (seriously why does anyone ever take Holotargeting?) Heavies + Squadsight Sniper support on Impossible, doubly so if Blaster Launchers were involved. But yeah, as said, the new content I think is likely the most prominent reason for this massive incrementation in their durability, coupled with the casual ease with which HEAT annihilates them.

[Grif]

I've honestly never found Sectopods problematic given HEAT ammo by the end game; they always went down quickly to Bullet Swarm (seriously why does anyone ever take Holotargeting?) Heavies + Squadsight Sniper support on Impossible, doubly so if Blaster Launchers were involved. But yeah, as said, the new content I think is likely the most prominent reason for this massive incrementation in their durability, coupled with the casual ease with which HEAT annihilates them.

I only just realised how OP HEAT was after mostly skipping through them in my first playthrough. (My initial Heavy that was going through the tree was killed by a lucky headshot, and left me with only the other heavy that taken Holographic Targetting and its siblings.) I had to use Snipers + generous grenades to even take down one.

[Triaxx]

Okay, but the problem is that the answer to brute force not working is to use more of it.

And the best answer to the Squadsight/Snap Shot issue is to rearrange the tree to give you the option of one or the other.

[RagingKrikkit]

No, the issue is that Squadsight and Snap Shot are one or the other, and there is no reason currently to take Snap Shot because Squadsight is so superior.

[Surrealistik]

Okay, but the problem is that the answer to brute force not working is to use more of it.

Haha, I actually agree with this to an extent; it just encourages Bullet Swarm HEAT Heavy (and presumably MEC) and Squadsight Sniper spam that much more. On the flipside it also makes options like Disabling Shot and Suppression more valuable since you can't (as) reliably take down the Sectopod before it gets a turn or two of shooting in.


And the best answer to the Squadsight/Snap Shot issue is to rearrange the tree to give you the option of one or the other.

I think Yak has the right idea here. Did you mean the option of taking both? In that case, the Sniper would be even more insanely OP.

[Destro_Yersul]

Guys.
There's an achievement called "Zom-b-Gone".
There's gonna be zombies.

There's already zombies? Chryssalids make them.


Yeah, the collector's editions and what not. Let's see, I got that for Rollercoaster Tycoon and SimCity 4... ah, whatever, I'm going to get it anyway.

No, not Collector's Editions. Things like Starcraft: Brood War and the assorted set of expansions for Roller Coaster Tycoon. Loopy Landscapes was one, I forget the others.

[RagingKrikkit]

I could explain my thought process, but I'm just too tired to care anymore.

So, yeah, setpiece terror mission. That's gonna be fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Fun).

[Triaxx]

No, the day was just longer than I realized. I'd forgotten how bad Snap shot was. Then again, the nature of the game being what it is, any unit type like the sniper who's dedicated to doing lots of damage from a vantage point is going to be unbalancing by nature.

I was thinking of Snapshot being the one that gives the advantage for high ground, instead of moving and shooting the rifle like the pistol.

[NotAEvilToaster]

It takes a bit of building for, but I find in general it's actually pretty nice, because by combining it and in the zone you can pretty easily get up massive kill combos.

[KillianHawkeye]

It takes a bit of building for, but I find in general it's actually pretty nice, because by combining it and in the zone you can pretty easily get up massive kill combos.

I don't get what you're saying here. In The Zone works fine with Squadsight. I can't imagine Snap Shot making it any better. :smallconfused:

[Ailurus]

I've honestly never found Sectopods problematic given HEAT ammo by the end game; they always went down quickly to Bullet Swarm (seriously why does anyone ever take Holotargeting?)

I'll usually designate one heavy (often my second one) with Holotargeting, just to make it easier to level up newbies. But, yeah, usually nothing more than that.

I do have to ask everyone mentioning Disabling Shot why? Its the one ability I've never been able to figure out even a situational use for (well, outside of disabling a mind-controlled soldier, and even then just blast the guy doing the mind control). Mostly because it doesn't stop anything scary. Disabling shot on Sectopods = eating a missile barrage. Disabling Shot on a Muton Elite or Heavy Floater = taking a grenade in the face (plus plasma sniper headshot on one of these guys will nearly kill them). Disabling shot on Ethereal, Sectoid Commander or Berserker is literally a waste of an action.

Granted, more enemies dropping into Overwatch and tougher enemies could improve its usefulness come the expansion, but for now I'd much rather my snipers just kill stuff. (granted, battle scanner isn't great, but I'll at least use it in the first few turns to safely scout for enemies while my team gets in cover. Disabling Shot, on the other hand, I'll maybe use 2-3 times per campaign).

[shadow_archmagi]

Disabling shot on Sectopods = eating a missile barrage.

Disabling Shot on a Muton Elite or Heavy Floater = taking a grenade in the face (plus plasma sniper headshot on one of these guys will nearly kill them).

Disabling shot on Ethereal, Sectoid Commander or Berserker is literally a waste of an action.


Disagree on the Sectopods- They don't always use the missile barrage immediately after being disabled, in my experience. (In fact, doesn't it require two turns- one to aim, and then one to fire?). Furthermore, the missile barrage is STILL less deadly than it firing the superlaser twice.

Disable is also useful for capturing.

[KillianHawkeye]

Disable is also useful for capturing.

This is probably the main use for it. You don't want the last guy on the map to pose any kind of a threat while your other guys are pinging it down with small arms fire.

That's such a limited use that you probably don't ever need to have more than one guy with Disabling Shot, though. If that.

[RagingKrikkit]

So, something just occured to me.

Between the gene mods and MEC troopers, what's going to happen to the multiplayer? I'm guessing that there will be a severe shakeup of the optimal strategy roster.

[Krade]

So, something just occured to me.

Between the gene mods and MEC troopers, what's going to happen to the multiplayer? I'm guessing that there will be a severe shakeup of the optimal strategy roster.

It should make things interesting, if nothing else. As it stands, there's two (maybe three) really good compositions and everything else is just swept away. Last time I played a batch of MP games (couple weeks ago), I went 5-0 and none of them ever even saw my sniper. Of course, part of that is the fact that most of the other actually good players don't really play anymore.

[Surrealistik]

My bad if it's already been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxqjq6HW3M&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqg5FCR7NrpvlBWMXdt-5Vg

Awesome.

[KillianHawkeye]

My bad if it's already been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxqjq6HW3M&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqg5FCR7NrpvlBWMXdt-5Vg

Awesome.

Nice find.

Unfortunately I'm get the feeling that it's a one time thing rather than something that's a continuous threat.

[tigerusthegreat]

Yeah, I totally don't get that decision; half damage on Sectopods despite a HEAT nerf? What the actual ****.

I guess they really, _really_ want to make HEAT mandatory and/or hype up Sectopods as an unstoppable force that demands stuff like Disabling Shot and Suppression rather than just overwhelming firepower to deal with. Either that or the Mech/Bio upgrades are so strong as to warrant this.

I think the two is overkill, but considering in vanilla, a sniper with plasma sniper + Double Tap (or whatever the two shot one is called) could kill one without a crit by himself (and I have two snipers with that trait and squadsight) there's no real challenge, save getting the snipers in position (which squadsight makes very easy).

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, to be honest, I wouldn't at all mind just them halving damage because Heavies and Snipers can put down Sectopods (and just about everything else to be fair) with laughable ease, but nerfing HEAT as well? A little uncalled for.

[KillianHawkeye]

Thinking about it, my guess is it will end up making sectopods be like the ultimate late-game enemy, whereas the new mechtoids will fill that gap in the mid-game. I am hoping this means that sectopods will start showing up even later than they do currently.

[Artanis]

TotalBiscuit has a pretty good early look at XCOM: Enemy Within (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vbj0C1KKwE). It's definitely worth watching, giving a great look at MEC Troopers, as well as good insight into Exalt, the new aliens, and the other changes.


Edit: Addendum.

The linked video has Mectoids near the end. TotalBiscuit mentions that they are very, very dangerous, especially for when they show up. They have a ton of HP, lots of firepower, and go straight into Overwatch when they're triggered.

[Grif]

Thinking about it, my guess is it will end up making sectopods be like the ultimate late-game enemy, whereas the new mechtoids will fill that gap in the mid-game. I am hoping this means that sectopods will start showing up even later than they do currently.

Now Shredder Rockets are almost a must to mitigate the damage reduction. (On top of the dodge they already have.)

[RagingKrikkit]

Do you shred the Sectopod to take it down faster, or supress it to whittle away with less chance of getting hit?

EDIT: TotalBiscut vid: 18:20... that... is awesome.

[Grif]

Do you shred the Sectopod to take it down faster, or supress it to whittle away with less chance of getting hit?

EDIT: TotalBiscut vid: 18:20... that... is awesome.

All else being equal, the former is almost always preferable.

[RagingKrikkit]

There's a maths method of figuring it out, depending on squad size, average damage, accuracy, but personally I'd say it depends on how fast you can take it down with shredding.

[factotum]

TotalBiscuit has a pretty good early look at XCOM: Enemy Within (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vbj0C1KKwE). It's definitely worth watching, giving a great look at MEC Troopers, as well as good insight into Exalt, the new aliens, and the other changes.

It does seem that the power creep in the expansion makes things a bit easier in the "early game" (and boy, how many games can you talk about where 15 hours in is still considered early game?)--will be interesting to see what the aliens and EXALT can field later on to counteract that. It might actually turn out that MEC troops become useless in endgame because of their inability to take cover, though--I know they've got a lot of health, but standing them in the middle of a corridor that's got Muton Elites coming down it doesn't seem like a long-term survival strategy to me.

[RagingKrikkit]

That's why you pop them out from behind a corner and flamethrower spam.

Oh, man, I can't wait to see a room full of Mutons screaming and crying and shooting each other. When that happens, I'm going to think back to the fist trooper I ever lost, and dedicate that moment to her.

[Ailurus]

It does seem that the power creep in the expansion makes things a bit easier in the "early game" (and boy, how many games can you talk about where 15 hours in is still considered early game?)--will be interesting to see what the aliens and EXALT can field later on to counteract that.

Firaxis has said that Enemy Within should make easy and normal difficulty easier to get through, but Classic and Impossible will probably end up harder in the late game even with gene mods and MECs

[BRC]

I'm debating about whether I want to do my first Enemy Within playthrough on Normal or Classic.

Normal Mode because I want to explore the new mechanics to their fullest.

Classic because Real Commanders Play On Classic Mode.

[Surrealistik]

I'm debating about whether I want to do my first Enemy Within playthrough on Normal Classic or Classic Impossible.

Normal Classic Mode because I want to explore the new mechanics to their fullest.

Classic Impossible because Real Commanders Play On Classic Impossible Mode.

Fixed. :smalltongue:

[RagingKrikkit]

You forgot to mention ironman.

[Surrealistik]

Haha, true dat.

[Ailurus]

Real Commanders play Classic Ironman. Impossible's changes are just an exercise in frustration with no added fun.

[KillianHawkeye]

You forgot to mention ironman.

I thought that was a given? :smallbiggrin:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Real Commanders play Classic Ironman. Impossible's changes are just an exercise in frustration with no added fun.

Second that. Don't see the appeal of Impossible. Forces you to do little but abuse the AI and spawning mechanics and takes the already rocket-tag-heavy gameplay way too far for my tastes.

[Posca]

Just a quick question, does Enemy Within include Slingshot on PC? I'm asking because it includes everythink on consoles, I wonder if its the same for PC.

[shadow_archmagi]

Second that. Don't see the appeal of Impossible. Forces you to do little but abuse the AI and spawning mechanics and takes the already rocket-tag-heavy gameplay way too far for my tastes.

This, basically. You can play Classic and still feel vaguely like a real commander. Impossible seemed to require taking the mechanics to their logical extremes. "Remember men: Never scout! It's always much better for the enemy to see you before you see them."

[Surrealistik]

Second that. Don't see the appeal of Impossible. Forces you to do little but abuse the AI and spawning mechanics and takes the already rocket-tag-heavy gameplay way too far for my tastes.

I'd say that's really only true if you exploit the hell out of flank paralyze which you aren't required to. If you consider Overwatch traps exploitation, maybe, but even then that's only required for the early game.

That said it's significantly less forgiving and more punishing than Classic.

Once you've got Bullet Swarm Heavies you can shoot and hunker with, and SS support, Ironman Impossible doesn't really demand exploitation of even the ambiguous Overwatch Trap variety.

[KillianHawkeye]

So... does anybody on XBox play multiplayer anymore? I was wanting to try it.

[RagingKrikkit]

I could give it a shot. PM inbound.

[Brother Oni]

Is there any point to capturing aliens that you've already interrogated?

And if you have additional captives, is there a way of executing/euthanasing them to recover their corpses for making items?

[Artanis]

Is there any point to capturing aliens that you've already interrogated?
Loot. You only get their gear if they're captured.

[Morithias]

Loot. You only get their gear if they're captured.

Keep in mind that if you're swift with satellites, and avoid using explosives on UFOs the weapon fragments can actually end up more valuable than the weapons themselves, since you can't break weapons down for R&D or Foundry use.

[Artanis]

Keep in mind that if you're swift with satellites, and avoid using explosives on UFOs the weapon fragments can actually end up more valuable than the weapons themselves, since you can't break weapons down for R&D or Foundry use.
This is true. Loot is why you keep stunning them after you interrogate (an Arc Thrower charge generally costs less money than building a Heavy Plasma for yourself), but yes, once you have the gear you need, by all means ditch the stunners.

[Morithias]

Anyone got an tips for the non-enemy unknown X-com games?

I'm wanting to try them, but with all the talk of how hard they are, I'm kind of scared.

I'll admit. I beat classic ironman....after losing around 80 soldiers.

and I beat impossible....save scumming to the point where i'm sure I reloaded over 800 times.

But the originals, just....freak me out. I'm not joking the original UFO defense scares me for some reason.

Edit: I have them all on steam, I got them with the Bureau as a pre-order bonus.

[Surrealistik]

Pre-prime and spam explosives, high explosive charges in particular once your soldiers have enough strength to throw them an adequate distance. Rush laser pistols and power armour. Heavy Plasma is desirable for tougher enemies that demand the stopping power (Mutons, Chryssalids; never rely on laser pistol overwatch to stop lids, Ethereals).

Chryssalids are not the laughable things they are in the remake (at least until you get flying armour); they are tough, have high reactions and TUs which make them difficult to Overwatch, and they one shot zombify regardless of target health and armour. They will tear apart tanks in a couple of hits (they can and will spam multiple melee attacks in one turn). Their AI in OpenXCom also isn't anywhere near as retarded as it is in the remake or the raw original so you will have no reprieves there.

Avoid night missions whenever possible, though autocannons with incendiary rounds can light them up fast.

You can also abuse psi and blaster launchers, but they're OP to the point of being gamebreaking, and rob the game of any challenge whatsoever.


Also openxcom is the rendition of the original you want to play:

http://openxcom.org/

Pretty well comprehensive.

The only thing I'd add is max out your laboratory and manufacturing scientist/engineer capacity as soon as you can afford it.

Manufacture and sell stuff for cash in perpetuity. Laser cannons are most profitable to manufacture on a profit vs time basis.

You should also look into building additional bases to expand your radar coverage and to serve as interceptor/manufacturing bases.

[Morithias]

Pretty well comprehensive.

The only thing I'd add is max out your laboratory and manufacturing scientist/engineer capacity as soon as you can afford it.

Manufacture and sell stuff for cash in perpetuity. Laser cannons are most profitable to manufacture on a profit vs time basis.

You should also look into building additional bases to expand your radar coverage and to serve as interceptor/manufacturing bases.

Alrighty then.

I keep a spreadsheet of all my steam games, how many hours I've put into them, how many I've beaten, how many hours I have to go before I've gotten my money's worth.

My most required hours by far is the Bureau collection. I need to play 80 more hours to get my money's worth. Luckily those hours can be spread across UFO:Defense, Terror from the Deep (yeah not going to happen), Interceptor, Enforcer, Apocolypse, Bureau, and Spec Ops.

Hopefully with your hints, I'll be able to face my fears and beat Ufo-defense.

[Surrealistik]

Oh yes, and get dual Avalanche Launchers for all of your interceptors ASAP; Cannons and Stingray Launchers are pretty terrible.

Terror From the Deep is challenging if you don't use Psi and the Blaster Launcher equivalent, but my tips hold up pretty well there; just keep in mind Lobster Men, that game's Muton equivalent, are about immune to explosives.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'd say original is easier. Because it's easier to kill aliens with ten glass cannons and one beefed up glass cannon (or just fourteen glass cannons, since it's actually better if you're willing to do the extra management) than with four jacks of all trades.

Use explosives, auto-cannon sucks unless you'd rather use incendiary than electro-flares for night missions (remind me, why are you going on a night mission?), laspistol is the best weapon alongside heavy plasma (you know how I said use heavy cannon for terrain-busting? Yeah, laspistol is better at that, plus it's full auto, and has infinite ammo, and you can carry a grenade or electro-flare or medkit or motion sensor).

[Surrealistik]

I'd agree with the original being easier than Ironman Impossible at least, even on Superhuman difficulty; this is true even if you don't abuse Psi and Blaster Launchers.

Explosive spam 2strong.

[Morithias]

Quick question. Is it possible to load and save mid-mission in the original?

[Surrealistik]

Quick question. Is it possible to load and save mid-mission in the original?

Yes.

Don't be a save scummer. :smalltongue:

[Morithias]

Yes.

Don't be a save scummer. :smalltongue:

I always do it the first time.

I beat games on easy, using save scumming and such, then work my way up.

It gives replay-ability, and it lets me learn the game over time, rather than jump in, get beat over and over, and rage quit.

[Gnoman]

Oh yes, and get dual Avalanche Launchers for all of your interceptors ASAP; Cannons and Stingray Launchers are pretty terrible.


Cannon, and especially laser cannon, are actually very, very good. The latter in particular is a very good alternative to the expensive and very limited Avalanches.

[Surrealistik]

Cannon, and especially laser cannon, are actually very, very good. The latter in particular is a very good alternative to the expensive and very limited Avalanches.

I'm talking about the conventional cannon which is definitely awful between its terrible damage and range (the longer closing time also means a craft is more likely to outrun your interceptor) and only has a niche use in downing small scouts that yield a grand total of 1 alien alloy. Even early you shouldn't be struggling to purchase and supply Avalanche launchers.

[chiasaur11]

Cannon, and especially laser cannon, are actually very, very good. The latter in particular is a very good alternative to the expensive and very limited Avalanches.

So you have to get into dogfighting range and get slaughtered on everything above a small scout?

No thanks. Gave at the office.

The key to using your nuclear arsenal (Avalanches in the original are nuclear.) is long range engagement. Max distance, empty the banks, send in the next interceptor, repeat until the enemy is dead and the area is a glowing crater.

Good until you get the plasma cannons. Those things are a dream.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Cannon, and especially laser cannon, are actually very, very good. The latter in particular is a very good alternative to the expensive and very limited Avalanches.

No. I've never played on higher difficulties (I think I usually play the middle one, Veteran), but when you can choose between getting in range of a more powerful weapon for the possibility of doing more damage over time or equipping a weapon with much longer range that can deal far more damage with a single hit, I'd go for the latter. Besides, you just send out two interceptors to deal with terror ships. I've never had problems with Avalanche Missiles, since I do remember to order more every one or two interceptions.

Laser cannon might be good... but generally, that's a money-maker weapon. Best exchange rate on cost-to-retail, although laser pistols work just fine for that. Could work on the more powerful interceptors, but there are better research projects to do, and by the time you're ready to research that you've already gotten plasma cannons.

[Morithias]

No. I've never played on higher difficulties (I think I usually play the middle one, Veteran), but when you can choose between getting in range of a more powerful weapon for the possibility of doing more damage over time or equipping a weapon with much longer range that can deal far more damage with a single hit, I'd go for the latter. Besides, you just send out two interceptors to deal with terror ships. I've never had problems with Avalanche Missiles, since I do remember to order more every one or two interceptions.

Laser cannon might be good... but generally, that's a money-maker weapon. Best exchange rate on cost-to-retail, although laser pistols work just fine for that. Could work on the more powerful interceptors, but there are better research projects to do, and by the time you're ready to research that you've already gotten plasma cannons.

If you're talking about the original UFO:Defense there is no "veteran" difficulty. The level resets to beginner after the first mission due to a glitch.

It's kind of sad, that I know that, and yet i'm still scared of the game.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If you're talking about the original UFO:Defense there is no "veteran" difficulty. The level resets to beginner after the first mission due to a glitch.

It's kind of sad, that I know that, and yet i'm still scared of the game.

I'm playing OpenXCOM.

[Morithias]

I'm playing OpenXCOM.

Oh they fixed it in that? Makes sense.

I kept wondering what that was on the steam news thing.

[Grif]

Anyone got an tips for the non-enemy unknown X-com games?

I'm wanting to try them, but with all the talk of how hard they are, I'm kind of scared.

I'll admit. I beat classic ironman....after losing around 80 soldiers.

and I beat impossible....save scumming to the point where i'm sure I reloaded over 800 times.

But the originals, just....freak me out. I'm not joking the original UFO defense scares me for some reason.

Edit: I have them all on steam, I got them with the Bureau as a pre-order bonus.

Apocalypse, if you have it, is far more forgiving compared to X-COM: Enemy Unknown or TFTD. Main reason being your solider actually starts with reliable armor that prevents instant death. The aliens also aren't so threatening.

[Morithias]

Apocalypse, if you have it, is far more forgiving compared to X-COM: Enemy Unknown or TFTD. Main reason being your solider actually starts with reliable armor that prevents instant death. The aliens also aren't so threatening.

I have all of the X-com games. They came with the Bureau as a pre-order bonus. (I gifted the extra copy of EU to a friend).

Thanks for the tip.

I also installed Open X-com, and used a trick on the forum I found to make it register my time played on steam.

Wish me luck!