Warforged Binder?

[Redjar]

I'm about to enter my 2nd 3.5 campaign ever and I want to play something fun. I'm not great at optimizing and don't really want to be, I became a bit to caught up in it last campaign and was more concerned with numbers than fun. Our group, and me especially, also didn't seriously RP as often as we wanted. I figured this class would be fun to play and fun to RP.

I'm pretty sure the DM won't be throwing crazy stuff at us, none of us save one guy really knows much about optimizing and this is the DM's first campaign. It's his own world so I can explain warforged in a way that isn't restricted to the eberron campaign, so being a Binder is easy enough to explain plotwise in that sense. I figured I'd be Melee focused to maximize the clash that is binder and warforged.

I understand I take the Charisma hit, but even if I fail my bind check that just gives me more fun to have with RPing in my opinion. I still retain all the stat and ability benefits. I figure I'll try to keep Strength and Charisma as high as possible with Int and Con after that and Wisdom and Dex as my dump stats.

Even though this is just for fun I would still like to be useful, so any tips or am I dead weight even in an unoptimized campaign? Also, tips for healing/repairing myself?

[mabriss lethe]

You can make a pretty solid combat binder. It's a good class: It's basically a Cleric chassis with recharging/constant effects instead of spells.

The Charisma hit isn't going to hurt that much in the long run, I wouldn't worry about it. On top of that, Warforged grants a number of nice immunities that couple well with a binder's passive abilities.

I can think of a few things that might not work well without some DM adjudication. One really. Namely Savnok's armor abilities and how they would interact with a warforged's composite plating, While Savnok is a nice vestige for its level, you can simply forgo its use without too many regrets. There are plenty of other rather nice vestiges you can be using instead for melee.

[Psyren]

Now I wonder where you got this idea :smallwink:

Warforged binder is indeed easy to do. One of the nice things about them is that, as Mabriss said, you don't have to worry too much about armor - instead, start the game with Adamantine Plating and go for melee. With this setup you don't have to worry too much about Cha either, I would dump that and instead focus on Str + Con.

At low levels, Haagenti is a decent choice for greataxe proficiency. You can also kung-fu it up with Ronove if you like, and as an added bonus you bypass magic DR at first level while also gaining a monk's unarmed die and unlimited feather fall. As you level, switch to Andras or Eurynome instead, and plan to enter Knight of the Sacred Seal as soon as possible.

Are the Dragon vestiges available?

[Chronos]

OK, now I'm wondering about Signs on a warforged. If, say, you bind Amon, do you grow ram-horns made of livewood and steel? Because that would be pretty cool.

[Redjar]

I'd assume I would just grow metal horns and such, at least that's how I'll play it.

And I was thinking of enchanted armor and that brought me to warforged. In my DM's world he doesn't have anything set for warforged. So in game I'm, a rather cliche, warforged who is trying to learn about souls and humanity by binding souls. He was a sorcerer's project and wound up getting left in his lab when the sorcerer had to flee.

By dragon you mean the dragon magazine/online ones? It hasn't been discussed, but they probably will be allowed. I could just bind them and my DM probably wouldn't even realize. Even if I told him he probably wouldn't care.

[Novawurmson]

By dragon you mean the dragon magazine/online ones? It hasn't been discussed, but they probably will be allowed. I could just bind them and my DM probably wouldn't even realize. Even if I told him he probably wouldn't care.

Always, always, always talk to your DM. Now, the dragon magazine and online vestiges are mostly fine (except for Zceryll's infinite summoning - that's a little broken for some campaigns), but the point is that good communication between players and DMs solves most problems before they even start. Use them, don't use them - I don't care. But not running something past your DM is always a bad idea.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Binder will do fine, even well in an unoptimized campaign. My tips are going to be mainly organizational, because godDAMN that class needs a lot of bookkeeping help:

Look through all the vestiges you have available. Know what they can do.
Make a list of offensive abilities you can pick up, and what vestige they come from. Ditto for defensive abilities, social abilities, scouting abilities, and so on. (Offense, Defense, and Utility at the very least).
Alternately, ake a short list of what each Vestige gives you in total (Leraje: stealth, archery).
Make an index card for each vestige-- fluff on one side (sign, influence, binding requirements) and the powers they grant on the other. Try to include enough info that you won't have to open the book except in very rare cases.
Once you get access to multiple vestiges at the same time, plan some common loadouts. Maybe in social situations, you'll roll with Astaroth and Naberius, while if you're expecting a bunch of fighting, you'll take Focalor and Andras.

Oh, and feat-wise, get Improved Binding and Expel Vestige ASAP. Improved Binding will let you access the next level of vestige, by both RAW and RAI. And Expel Vestige is a class feature disguised as a feat, and is vital to giving you some extra versatility.

[The Viscount]

I've been wondering something about expel vestige. How do you deal with having your rhythm being off in practical terms? Expel Vestige doesn't change the binding duration from 24 hours, so if you use it in the middle of the day, that's when you're binding, which can be problematic. Do you just eat the penalty again the next morning, and use up your use for that day?

[NeoPhoenix0]

Binder is a pretty solid class. Not to powerful, and not to weak. As far as repairing goes, I would buy your resident wizard/sorcerer or UMD user a wand of repair light damage. It is a very efficient way to get repaired.

[Redjar]

Novawormson is right, I only lose and make things complicated if I fail to inform my DM.
And I'm definitely going to use that index "vestige trading card" trick, thanks Grod!

The only other person to confirm their class is Bard. Another, the only one with enough know how to break the game, is probably going to be a roguish class. And then we have two others still debating. The Bard should be able to repair me with wands and UMD, right?

[NeoPhoenix0]

Novawormson is right, I only lose and make things complicated if I fail to inform my DM.
And I'm definitely going to use that index "vestige trading card" trick, thanks Grod!

The only other person to confirm their class is Bard. Another, the only one with enough know how to break the game, is probably going to be a roguish class. And then we have two others still debating. The Bard should be able to repair me with wands and UMD, right?

If the Bard trains UMD he should be able to use wands to repair you. Also remember for emergencies, if you need to be repaired and don't have any repair spells at hand healing spells heal you for half. Also since you are a warforged you are vulnerable to ability damage. Your Naberius vestige is good for that if no one can heal your ability damage.

[The Viscount]

In later levels your access to Buer will help enormously with healing, since she heals both you and allies infinitely for free.

[The Glyphstone]

OK, now I'm wondering about Signs on a warforged. If, say, you bind Amon, do you grow ram-horns made of livewood and steel? Because that would be pretty cool.

I'd think it would be even cooler if you grew organic horns of bone somehow, really plays up the alien nature of vestiges if they can alter you that way.

[Psyren]

Signs are explicitly supernatural, so justifying them is as easy as saying "it's magic." As for Amon in particular, his horns are "a ram's horns" so most likely they are made of bone.

[Chronos]

Quoth The Viscount:

In later levels your access to Buer will help enormously with healing, since she heals both you and allies infinitely for free.
Personally, I'd prefer to use Tenebrous, and take the Sacred Healing feat from Complete Divine (note: not the one from PHB2), which lets you use turn attempts to get healing. It uses a feat, but vestiges are a scarcer resource than feats are, and Tenebrous actually gives you abilities other than healing, while that's pretty much all Buer does.

[mabriss lethe]

I've always preferred combining Tenebrous with Healing Devotion. Sure, it isn't an area effect, but HDev works in a really strange way. It grants the ability to burn an immediate action to gain Fast healing for 1 minute. You can, as written, also pass on the ability to someone else as a full round action. It doesn't grant them fast healing when you do this. It grants them 1 use of the Healing Devotion feat that will stick around until it gets used. Stock up your friends with a handful of HDevs and let them use their own actions to heal.

[The Viscount]

Personally, I'd prefer to use Tenebrous, and take the Sacred Healing feat from Complete Divine (note: not the one from PHB2), which lets you use turn attempts to get healing. It uses a feat, but vestiges are a scarcer resource than feats are, and Tenebrous actually gives you abilities other than healing, while that's pretty much all Buer does.

Doesn't the fact that the PHB2 one came out later make it the only "official" feat, RAW, or do we just regard it as an editing error? Also, how are you satisfying the 8 ranks in Heal requirement?