Fell Drain questions

[erok0809]

Quick question, the wording of Fell Drain is that "any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level."

Now, Maw of Chaos deals 1d6/CL damage every round, so would they gain a negative level every round as well, since they were damaged again? Or do they only get one negative level since it's still only one casting of the spell damaging them? I'm inclined to go with the second one, but I'm curious what you all think.

Similarly, would someone who got hit with all five fell drained magic missiles from the same casting take five negative levels, or just one?

[Khedrac]

The usual interpretation is that this is once per creature per spell, though some take it as once per creature per round per spell.

This is justified by the text being unambiguously singular, thus the spell only ever deals one negative level (or none) to a single creature.

Fell Drain Magic Missile then becomes best for multiple targets or someone with 4 or fewer mirror images.

[erok0809]

Okay, cool. Slightly disappointing, but it makes sense. Thanks a lot. I'll have to ask my DM about Maw of Chaos, see what he says about that. I think he'll definitely go with one negative level per magic missile casting, but I'm not quite as sure about the maw of chaos, so I'll have to ask.

[TuggyNE]

Quick question, the wording of Fell Drain is that "any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level."

Now, Maw of Chaos deals 1d6/CL damage every round, so would they gain a negative level every round as well, since they were damaged again? Or do they only get one negative level since it's still only one casting of the spell damaging them? I'm inclined to go with the second one, but I'm curious what you all think.

I would say the former, but I'm not married to that interpretation.


Similarly, would someone who got hit with all five fell drained magic missiles from the same casting take five negative levels, or just one?

Definitely just one.

[Darth Stabber]

This feat opens a whole can of discussion worms. I am reading the feat now and it seems by RAW that each instance of damage, but for sake of balance I would restrict to once per target per round.

[lsfreak]

I take it to mean multiple negative levels over multiple rounds. Except for a small handful of spells or combinations, it's not really that much of a problem - a few negative levels are a good debuff, but nothing more. Even the things that all but guarantee someone will die from the negative levels aren't that bad, because it just takes so long to kill someone. Maw of Chaos I'd be fine with, even reduced down to "just" 9th level - tacking a single negative level a round on top of the dazing and 20d6+ damage isn't, comparatively, all that threatening. A reduced-back-to-6th-level Freezing fog is more like something I'd be weary of (and Born of Three Thunders freezing fog crosses into the cruelly hilarious).

[Darth Stabber]

My favorite fell drain pairings
cloud of knives (hand out a negative level every round as a swift action)

Kelgore's gravemist (everything in the area gets fatiged and negative leveled every round, cold damage is just gravy)

Melf's acid arrow (now melf's draining arrow)

Shadow evocation (20% is enough to trigger the draining)

[erok0809]

Thanks for all the input, I'll have to go to the DM and see what his ruling is, although I'll show him this thread to see if he'll concede to it being more than once if the damage is over multiple rounds, such as the Freezing Fog example above.

A few more questions now, can you fell drain an enervation for that extra negative level, or something that does ability damage like shivering touch? That's still being "damaged by the spell," but not HP. Does that count? If so, what about something that's only a penalty to the ability (where it can't be dropped below 1), rather than damage that allows it to go to 0? That's a penalty, not damage...What about Feeblemind, dropping the INT and CHA scores to 1 but never using the word damage in its description? Can these be fell drained?

[Darth Stabber]

Thanks for all the input, I'll have to go to the DM and see what his ruling is, although I'll show him this thread to see if he'll concede to it being more than once if the damage is over multiple rounds, such as the Freezing Fog example above.

A few more questions now, can you fell drain an enervation for that extra negative level, or something that does ability damage like shivering touch? That's still being "damaged by the spell," but not HP. Does that count? If so, what about something that's only a penalty to the ability (where it can't be dropped below 1), rather than damage that allows it to go to 0? That's a penalty, not damage...What about Feeblemind, dropping the INT and CHA scores to 1 but never using the word damage in its description? Can these be fell drained?

Has to deal damage, but it doesn't specify HP damage. It will work with shivering touch, which deals DEX damage, but not on spells that give negative levels or penalties. If there were such a thing as "level damage" you would be set, unfortunately there is nothing like that.

[erok0809]

I assume it also would not work with Feeblemind then?

[Karnith]

I assume it also would not work with Feeblemind then?
Correct, since Feeblemind drops the target's Intelligence and Charisma scores to 1, rather than dealing any sort of ability damage.

[Cheiromancer]

Power Word Pain would also be nasty. The fact that it is mind-affecting isn't a huge problem, since the kinds of things that are immune are often immune to energy drain as well.

Is your DM the kind that lets NPC's use the same tricks as PC's employ? A "favorable" ruling on Fell Drain might come back to haunt you.

[erok0809]

Is your DM the kind that lets NPC's use the same tricks as PC's employ? A "favorable" ruling on Fell Drain might come back to haunt you.

I think so, probably. One "lucky" thing is that the game we're playing is extremely low-magic. My character is supposed to be the first humanoid arcane caster. Wizards aren't a thing yet, nor are normal bards, only the divine bard variant exists. One of the NPCs is supposed to study my character and become the first wizard. But there's nothing stopping him from throwing divine casters at us, so we'll probably end up getting fell drained at some point. I think as long as I don't abuse the power, he won't make it blow up in my face.