[oWoD] Tips on werewolves

[Jeivar]

I've never played Werewolf: The Apocalypse.

I understand the basics: They are born as either humans or wolves before changing, they are supposed to guard the earth and the spirit world, they have severe rage issues and kill vampires on sight for being unclean.
What I don't really know a whole lot about is... well, what they're like, how their relations are with non-vampires and what they actually do about the spirit stuff.

I'm running a Hunter: The Reckoning game and one of my players has the background that lets him have a supernatural acquaintance he can meet and talk to on a regular basis. He went with a werewolf girl born as a wolf.
Also, the hunters are fighting a human sacrifice cult that wants to awaken an eldritch demon thing that slumbers beneath Detroit. They've already killed most of the leaders and I wanted to make the last one an evil werewolf just for variety.

Tips?
Oh, and just how does the rage/soak/regeneration thing work?

[JeenLeen]

This is from the Werewolf book I read. I think it was Revised version, but another oWoD book may contradict the below.

Relationship with Others
I could see many garou (their word for werewolves) getting along okay with Hunters as long as the Hunters aren't killing garou. Both would be for fighting evil and corruption, like vampires. The main enemies of garou are the Wyrm (embodiment of corruption) and Pentex (a massive multi-national corporation run by fomori (humans corrupted by banes, evil spirits), which serves the Wyrm. They fight to protect the earth, but too often fail due to political fighting between the tribes.

Garou tend to kill vampires on sight, although they do have some sort of deal with the Gangrel clan (not sure what it is, though). Garou and mages compete for resources; both use locations where mystical energies naturally coalesce. Garou refer to these as caerns, and sanctify them to make them their bases. Mages refer to these as nodes, and use them to make magic easier to cast and to gather Quintessence. Garou view mage-usage of nodes/caerns as blasphemous and desecrating Gaia.
Also, garou bodies contain Quintessence, so sometimes they probably fight over that as well. (And this is Tradition mages. Technocracy probably kill garou on-sight for being reality deviants.)

Not sure how they'd get along with others, but those are the main groups. Demons, mummies, wraiths... not sure. All in all, most supernaturals tend to avoid others and stick to themselves, except for killing or occassionally using another type. Ignorance, fear, and rumors are common. (But there's no reason PC shouldn't be an exception to this.)

Werewolf Gifts
Do you plan on using actual Werewolf Gifts (their powers) or refluffing the powers of other supernaturals? The Gifts vary a lot, and it's easier to get certain ones depending on the breed (what they are born as), auspice (sign of the moon they are either born or first change under; I forget which), and tribe (their bloodline). Spirits teach Gifts to werewolves, and certain spirits work with certain tribes/breeds/auspices more than others. (Garou can teach each other Gifts, but I've gathered that's rarer and harder.)

Rage/Soak/Regen

Garou have both Rage (anger) and Gnosis (spiritual connection.) Rage can be used for extra rounds (like vampiric Celerity) and can do a lot of other random things. Both Rage and Gnosis are used to power some Gifts.

When a werewolf is badly harmed or emotionally upset, they can go into frenzy. You roll Rage, and more successes make it more likely to frenzy. There are some pros to frenzy, but it's mostly bad: you go into a killing spree, and I think have to willpower save to not kill your allies after all your foes are dead.

Werewolf claws and fangs deal aggravated damage. Silver deals aggravated damage to garou (as may toxic waste and radiation; the book says this could be DM option as those oppose the earth, but I've usually seen people waive that source.)

Werewolves regenerate 1 bashing or lethal damage each round they are not in their natural form. So your wolf-born girl will heal if in any form except wolf. (Metis, those who born to two garou and are naturally in war-beast form, regenerate in all forms.) I think you regen 1 agg/day, but I could be wrong.

I forget how they soak, as my group usually hosuerules soaking rules. I think they can soak bashing and lethal at least, although maybe not lethal in their base form or in wolf & human... don't remember.

EDIT: there are evil garou called Black Spiral Dancers. They were a noble clan that got corrupted by the Wyrm. Usually look diseased or freakish in some way. They'd make a good evil werewolf, and it'd be a good reason for the PC's ally to not lose respect of her pack for working with hunters.

[SaurOps]

This is from the Werewolf book I read. I think it was Revised version, but another oWoD book may contradict the below.

Relationship with Others
I could see many garou (their word for werewolves) getting along okay with Hunters as long as the Hunters aren't killing garou. Both would be for fighting evil and corruption, like vampires. The main enemies of garou are the Wyrm (embodiment of corruption) and Pentex (a massive multi-national corporation run by fomori (humans corrupted by banes, evil spirits), which serves the Wyrm. They fight to protect the earth, but too often fail due to political fighting between the tribes.

And because their strongest advantages involve straightforward fighting rather than navigating a political arena. Talking is difficult if your Rage is higher than a human's Willpower.

NB: Fomori are wholly possessed by banes, and are not ubiquitous at Pentex or its subsidiaries, merely commonplace. An awful lot of it is just petty bureaucrats and normal folk who like money more than anything else. Some few simply have very warped senses of aesthetics instead.

Finally, W20 was released some months back. It has everything of old, packed into 555 pages of fury and streamlined. Gifts, in particular, have been given a shot in the arm.



Garou tend to kill vampires on sight, although they do have some sort of deal with the Gangrel clan (not sure what it is, though).

Gangrel who buy that load of manure are likely to end up suffering the Final Death. They aren't exceptions to the rule, and approaching the bawn of a caern is a death sentence for them, too. For the most part, though, vampires are second-string adversaries to werewolves, who typically have bigger things to worry about.



Garou and mages compete for resources; both use locations where mystical energies naturally coalesce. Garou refer to these as caerns, and sanctify them to make them their bases. Mages refer to these as nodes, and use them to make magic easier to cast and to gather Quintessence. Garou view mage-usage of nodes/caerns as blasphemous and desecrating Gaia.
Also, garou bodies contain Quintessence, so sometimes they probably fight over that as well. (And this is Tradition mages. Technocracy probably kill garou on-sight for being reality deviants.)

If you're playing outside of Mage, whether there even is a Technocracy, or any other faction or group from the other game, is up in the air. They usually deal with Weaver-bound servitors in the form of Developmental Neogenetics Amalgamated and other companies that are adversarial to them but not Wyrm-influenced. Also, Drones are a problem. Think fomori, but with Weaver-spirits instead.



Not sure how they'd get along with others, but those are the main groups. Demons

Resemble banes, don't get along with.



mummies

Too few mummies to have stereotypes.



wraiths... not sure.

Silent Striders got Gifts in W20 to sic them on people. For the most part, though, few Garou concern themselves with the dead, though Red Talons who encounter ghosts who don't shut up and stay dead have rites to make them shut up.



I forget how they soak, as my group usually hosuerules soaking rules. I think they can soak bashing and lethal at least, although maybe not lethal in their base form or in wolf & human... don't remember.

Bashing and lethal in every form, aggravated in non-breed. Silver inflicts only lethal in breed form, save for the Garou/Garou born characters, metis, who can soak or regenerate everything but silver in any form.



EDIT: there are evil garou called Black Spiral Dancers. They were a noble clan that got corrupted by the Wyrm. Usually look diseased or freakish in some way. They'd make a good evil werewolf, and it'd be a good reason for the PC's ally to not lose respect of her pack for working with hunters.

The ones that are ill and/or nonfunctional, the leadership sends as shock troops to assault caerns. The ones who are functional get up to more insidious subtle evils.

[Jeivar]

Bashing and lethal in every form, aggravated in non-breed. Silver inflicts only lethal in breed form, save for the Garou/Garou born characters, metis, who can soak or regenerate everything but silver in any form.


What about fire? One the PC's is putting together a homemade flamethrower (the player found actual blueprints online). Does it deal aggravated damage to Garou like it does to vampires?

EDIT: Oh! And for that matter, how fast can they change shape if attacked? Can they sustain the super-duper crinos form indefinitely or is there some downside to it?

[SaurOps]

What about fire? One the PC's is putting together a homemade flamethrower (the player found actual blueprints online). Does it deal aggravated damage to Garou like it does to vampires?

Fire does aggravated damage to everything. Unless you have the Gift Master of Fire active, anyway. Then it only does bashing.

(That's a first rank trick, too. You can braid rope into your hair or fur and set it on fire when you're fighting vampires, and they'll have to resist Rotschreck every time you hit them.)

You stay in a form until you fall unconscious, at which point you revert the breed form. Shapeshifting is a Stamina + Primal Urge roll, and is not reflexive or even usually quick when used in this manner, but you can spend Rage to instantly assume a form (only one point). Otherwise, you have to flip through every form in between before you assume a form.

[Jeivar]

You stay in a form until you fall unconscious, at which point you revert the breed form. Shapeshifting is a Stamina + Primal Urge roll, and is not reflexive or even usually quick when used in this manner, but you can spend Rage to instantly assume a form (only one point). Otherwise, you have to flip through every form in between before you assume a form.

Thanks.
So it takes a full round to assume one shape? Can they perform other actions while changing or is a werewolf at a disadvantage for a few moments?
One last thing: Is there ANY reason for a Garou to use anything other than the crinos form in battle?

[hamlet]

I have the sudden urge to get involved in an oWOD game . . .

Too bad my local group is of the "werewolves/vampires/ghosts/etc. are for killing, not emoting" type. I agree with them to a certain extent having bad experiences with WOD games in the past, but I really suddenly have the itch to run a werewolf game.

[The Glyphstone]

One last thing: Is there ANY reason for a Garou to use anything other than the crinos form in battle?
It might want to have a remotely fragile grasp of tactics more complex than 'smash enemy in face'.


As an aside, Werewolf+Hunter is probably going to be an exceedingly confusing crossover even by OWoD standards, because one of the fundamental traits of Garou is that their claws deal aggravated damage, and H:tR doesn't recognize aggravated damage as a thing in its own rules.

[hamlet]

It might want to have a remotely fragile grasp of tactics more complex than 'smash enemy in face'.


As an aside, Werewolf+Hunter is probably going to be an exceedingly confusing crossover even by OWoD standards, because one of the fundamental traits of Garou is that their claws deal aggravated damage, and H:tR doesn't recognize aggravated damage as a thing in its own rules.

Only a problem if Werewolf girl ever gets involved in combat. If she's just a contact who abstains from that kind of thing - as I recall, there's a particular group of werewolves who are, for lack of a better term, relatively pacifist and mystic - then she can make a great source of information or perhaps nifty spiritual type gifts.

[SaurOps]

Thanks.
So it takes a full round to assume one shape? Can they perform other actions while changing or is a werewolf at a disadvantage for a few moments?

Standard split action rules apply, so if they're good enough at both tasks, they can, yes. Some Gifts make transformation easier, too. It's more difficult without said Gifts, but they can also partially transform themselves, like giving your Homid form Crinos claws but staying in Homid overall.



One last thing: Is there ANY reason for a Garou to use anything other than the crinos form in battle?

In addition to the boss physical bonuses, Crinos stands half again as high as Homid - at minimum - and weighs about three times as much, if not more, so if you're in confined spaces or around fragile objects, don't change into it. While in the War Wolf form, it's also easier to frenzy, and harder to communicate eloquently or be calm.


Only a problem if Werewolf girl ever gets involved in combat. If she's just a contact who abstains from that kind of thing - as I recall, there's a particular group of werewolves who are, for lack of a better term, relatively pacifist and mystic - then she can make a great source of information or perhaps nifty spiritual type gifts.

Very relative, yes. The Children of Gaia just don't glorify rampages quite so strongly when they engage in them, and the Theurge auspice is on the lower end of starting Rage.

[Chen]

One last thing: Is there ANY reason for a Garou to use anything other than the crinos form in battle?

Unless they're wielding weapons (klaives against other werewolves for example) werewolves should fight in Hispo form actually.

Crinos is: +4 Str, +1 Dex, +3 Sta.
Hispo is: +3 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Sta.

Crinos has a bite damage of +1 whereas Hispo has bite damage of +2 which makes up for the strength loss, meaning we're at a net +1 dex. However the biggest deal is that Hispo bites at difficulty 5. For straight combat you can't beat that kind of difficulty decrease. Not to mention you get an extra die of dex to hit with. Hispo is also faster than Crinos which can be useful as well.

Now if you need to open doors or manipulate things while in combat Crinos is better (since they have hands) but otherwise Hispo all the way.

[neonchameleon]

I've never played Werewolf: The Apocalypse.

I understand the basics: They are born as either humans or wolves before changing, they are supposed to guard the earth and the spirit world, they have severe rage issues and kill vampires on sight for being unclean.
What I don't really know a whole lot about is... well, what they're like, how their relations are with non-vampires and what they actually do about the spirit stuff.

I'm running a Hunter: The Reckoning game and one of my players has the background that lets him have a supernatural acquaintance he can meet and talk to on a regular basis. He went with a werewolf girl born as a wolf.
Also, the hunters are fighting a human sacrifice cult that wants to awaken an eldritch demon thing that slumbers beneath Detroit. They've already killed most of the leaders and I wanted to make the last one an evil werewolf just for variety.

Tips?
Oh, and just how does the rage/soak/regeneration thing work?

If you're the DM then Werewolves work however is easiest for you. So basically:

Werewolves are the biggest, meanest, most rabid balls of rage in the entire World of Darkness. Also stupid, easily provoked, and the architects of many of their own problems because they think that their brute strength solves everything. Their main role is guardians of nature, leaning towards ecoterrorists, and their main semi-mundane enemy is the World of Darkness megacorporation known as Pentex.

Corrupted Werewolves are called Black Spiral Dancers. Just add mutations. And the desire to wreck nature rather than protect it.

For simplicity, run werewolves with only three forms. Human, Wolf, and Crinos (think giant wolf-man). In Crinos form they gain +4 strength, +1 dex, +3 stamina, and heal one damage level per round (bashing or lethal) unless you use silver, fire, or decapitation. And have really sharp claws which supernatural creatures can't heal from. Then give them the most physical hunter gifts you can find in plae of werewolf gifts (I don't know Hunter, I'm afraid). Oh, and humans have this tendency to go crazy round Crinos werewolves unless they are either hunters or kinfolk.

[Asmodai]

Also stupid, easily provoked, and the architects of many of their own problems because they think that their brute strength solves everything

While most of what you said is true, never, ever go in assuming Werewolves are stupid. The scariest thing about them is that they are murder machines with brains and the ability to be subtle.

[SaurOps]

If you're the DM then Werewolves work however is easiest for you. So basically:

Werewolves are the biggest, meanest, most rabid balls of rage in the entire World of Darkness. Also stupid, easily provoked, and the architects of many of their own problems because they think that their brute strength solves everything. Their main role is guardians of nature, leaning towards ecoterrorists, and their main semi-mundane enemy is the World of Darkness megacorporation known as Pentex.

Pentex's existence and involvement isn't written as being common knowledge among all Garou. Their main adversaries depend on where they live, and often include a much wider variety of antagonists. When doing dumb things, they also tend to do a very familiar thing of picking the wrong choice, often doing so out of pride, rather than this being a case of "can't understand the contents of a book".



Corrupted Werewolves are called Black Spiral Dancers. Just add mutations. And the desire to wreck nature rather than protect it.

For simplicity, run werewolves with only three forms. Human, Wolf, and Crinos (think giant wolf-man). In Crinos form they gain +4 strength, +1 dex, +3 stamina, and heal one damage level per round (bashing or lethal) unless you use silver, fire, or decapitation. And have really sharp claws which supernatural creatures can't heal from. Then give them the most physical hunter gifts you can find in plae of werewolf gifts (I don't know Hunter, I'm afraid). Oh, and humans have this tendency to go crazy round Crinos werewolves unless they are either hunters or kinfolk.

"Using decapitation" is such a weird little combination of words. It's not like it's a separate damage type. It's a consequence that usually doesn't happen unless you're very careful about hitting an immobile target or happen to have a very powerful method of harm.

[neonchameleon]

While most of what you said is true, never, ever go in assuming Werewolves are stupid. The scariest thing about them is that they are murder machines with brains and the ability to be subtle.

I meant strategically stupid rather than tactically, but point accepted. Short-sighted would be a better description and they can be quite cunning.

[Monss Meg]

If you do not want to confuse some one chose your words more intentionality. Instead of belittling them for you own mistake.

All-so werewolf are the malee power houses in OWoD. I think the thing to remember is if you willpower is not 10, and you see them amuse crinos form you will have some sort of interesting reaction.

[SaurOps]

If you do not want to confuse some one chose your words more intentionality. Instead of belittling them for you own mistake.

All-so werewolf are the malee power houses in OWoD. I think the thing to remember is if you willpower is not 10, and you see them amuse crinos form you will have some sort of interesting reaction.

High Occult, paired with Wits, can help ease the Delirium, but the difficulty of that roll is rather high. Activating Imbued Second Sight makes it a non-issue, so if you have Conviction left, it's not so much of a worry.

[Brother Oni]

Isn't there also a social interaction penalty in that if a garou has higher Rage than a human has Willpower, the human is instinctively nervous and generally freaked out, much like a prey animal in the presence of an apex predator?

Admittedly this won't be an issue if they never meet in person, or if you have a Theurge, since most Hunters have fairly decent Willpower scores, but it adds a little flavour to when they meet up.

[SaurOps]

Isn't there also a social interaction penalty in that if a garou has higher Rage than a human has Willpower, the human is instinctively nervous and generally freaked out, much like a prey animal in the presence of an apex predator?

Admittedly this won't be an issue if they never meet in person, or if you have a Theurge, since most Hunters have fairly decent Willpower scores, but it adds a little flavour to when they meet up.

That would be The Curse. There's a similar effect on the werewolf's own social dice pool of their Rage is higher than their own Willpower as well.

[Asmodai]

That would be The Curse. There's a similar effect on the werewolf's own social dice pool of their Rage is higher than their own Willpower as well.

Yeah, but the Hunters are not going to feel it, being awakened and all...

[LibraryOgre]

Now if you need to open doors or manipulate things while in combat Crinos is better (since they have hands) but otherwise Hispo all the way.

I had a garou who preferred Glabro, especially for challenges... but that's because he was specialized in Wrestling. One wrestler in a Pack can make a big difference (I tackle and pin them, you rip their throat out). Dice pool of Str+Brawl.

[SaurOps]

Yeah, but the Hunters are not going to feel it, being awakened and all...

Hunters only don't feel it when Second Sight is active. When not protected by Conviction, they're as vulnerable as anyone else.

[awa]

Remember that while fire does do agg damage they can still soak it only silver and bale fire are unsoakable for them (at least that's how i remember it)

Also its been a few years but I remember one of the biggest advantages against a lot of foes was the ability to enter the spirit world. Walk into the enemies base spy on them from another dimension then when you find a safe spot renter the physical world. Adults rarely expect to find a 9 foot death machine in the closet.
If you are a glass walker you can use the boring trick of delivering a large bomb vie spirit world then leaving.

[Fearan]

Also, oWoD werewolves can have ifinite ammo (it's a 1-st rank Glasswalker gift), Garafena's crown. Mentioned here for sheer awesomeness of the idea.

[SaurOps]

Also, oWoD werewolves can have ifinite ammo (it's a 1-st rank Glasswalker gift), Garafena's crown. Mentioned here for sheer awesomeness of the idea.

Second Rank. Also, as of W20, it became Hands Full of Thunder, and requires at least one round in the gun to work instead of donning some kind of headgear like in Rambo.

[Fearan]

Second Rank. Also, as of W20, it became Hands Full of Thunder, and requires at least one round in the gun to work instead of donning some kind of headgear like in Rambo.
Rambo-style still feels better.