an idea i had...

[blelliot]

What are the opinions/thoughts on the master of many forms prc and giving it druid spellcasting progression as well? I like that specific prc, but I don't want to give up druid spellcasting. Plmk what you think. Thanks!

[Averis Vol]

I'm not sure the druid needs to be any more broken then it already is. If you give them casting, theres absolutely no reason not to take it as the prereqs are laughable. This class is supposed to be a trade, and in doing that made it only useable by wildshape rangers*.

*this is barring really low op games.

[Waker]

The only way I would give it casting progression is if it were hampered, 5/10 or at most 7/10 progression. The MoMF is already a pretty decent class.

[eggynack]

I'm not sure the druid needs to be any more broken then it already is. If you give them casting, theres absolutely no reason not to take it as the prereqs are laughable. This class is supposed to be a trade, and in doing that made it only useable by wildshape rangers*.

*this is barring really low op games.
Yeah, I agree with you on the point of it basically being a strict upgrade if you add casting. Losing animal companion advancement is trivial in comparison to the gains you get. I disagree with the idea that it's only usable by wild shape rangers except in low op games though. I mean, it feels bad to move from druid to MoMF, but a ranger going into MoMF will have an incredibly similar power level. If you want to go master of many forms, you'd probably actually end up with a higher powered character by starting with druid, because you don't get all that much from the ranger levels. Ultimately, the idea that wild shape ranger is the optimal entry point into the PrC is one of perception, rather than one of truth. I also wouldn't call any game where you use MoMF low optimization at all. It's a pretty powerful character you end up with, getting you to at least the upper echelons of tier three. I dunno if you hit two, especially because I've never been sure what the exact requirements are to cross that threshold, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

[Averis Vol]

Yeah, I agree with you on the point of it basically being a strict upgrade if you add casting. Losing animal companion advancement is trivial in comparison to the gains you get. I disagree with the idea that it's only usable by wild shape rangers except in low op games though. I mean, it feels bad to move from druid to MoMF, but a ranger going into MoMF will have an incredibly similar power level. If you want to go master of many forms, you'd probably actually end up with a higher powered character by starting with druid, because you don't get all that much from the ranger levels. Ultimately, the idea that wild shape ranger is the optimal entry point into the PrC is one of perception, rather than one of truth. I also wouldn't call any game where you use MoMF low optimization at all. It's a pretty powerful character you end up with, getting you to at least the upper echelons of tier three. I dunno if you hit two, especially because I've never been sure what the exact requirements are to cross that threshold, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

okay, that was poor wording on my part. I should have said it was a pure nerf since you will miss out on 9ths if you take more then three levels. I do not think that MoMF is a bad class, nor do I think either entry is bad, but from a pure optimisation point of view, it is a weaker choice.

[NeoPhoenix0]

okay, that was poor wording on my part. I should have said it was a pure nerf since you will miss out on 9ths if you take more then three levels. I do not think that MoMF is a bad class, nor do I think either entry is bad, but from a pure optimisation point of view, it is a weaker choice.

From an optimization stand point I would say that druid entry is better because you have 5 levels of druid casting as opposed to a few boosts to combat.

Of course also from an optimization stand point no sane druid would lose that much casting.

Edit: basically i think druid entry is better that ranger entry for MoMF but entering MoMF is bad for a druid.

[blelliot]

Well the idea is to modify the existing class to balance it so giving it full spellcasting isn't going to break the game. I'm only interested in the gargantuan, extraordinary, and fast wild shape abilities. That and an ability I'm homebrewing to increase the effective druid level for the purposes of shape power. The idea is to wild shape into a gigantosaurrus before 24th level. So any ideas are appreciated.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You can use the Mantle of the Beast (CC) and Enhance Wildshape (SpC) for fast wildshape and extraordinary abilities.
Gargantuaan WS is an epic feat so you'd need to be a dragonwrought kobold to take it early.
You can increase your wildshape HD with several items. Wildshape Amulet (+4) is in one of the Faerun books (MoF iirc), Regalia of the Beast (CC) adds +1 and Skin of Kaletor (Dragon?) adds another +4.