Why do you take things so personally?

[Mauve Shirt]

is the question that is asked of me when I get upset or defensive at "Women/gamers/epileptics/teachers/Americans/Marylanders are dumb!" statements. So I have a question to ask back.
Why shouldn't I take an attack on an element of my person personally? This broad category does happen to contain me, so when you say "all" you must mean me, and I do take offense to being called dumb. My bad.
Why does a negative reaction to such a statement confuse or offend those who say such things?

I am posting this in its own thread because I want to reach people who don't hang out in the Woes and Advice thread or wherever you might think this would fit. Thanks!

[Mutant Sheep]

Because they're talking about the stereotype, not you. Stop making them question their preconceptions!:smallfurious::smalltongue:

[smellie_hippie]

Because in all honesty, most people are lazy.

It is much easier to make a generalized statement about "people" than it is to get specific about this person, that person and that other guy over there on that corner. No not that corner, the other one... The guy with stringy blonde hair. Yeah, that one!

It's also much easier to be derogatory and demeaning than it is to be supportive and encouraging.

Should you take it personally? No! If someone is not going out of their way to make a specifically negative comment about you... Then it is safe to assume that it's not about you. And if it is indeed about you, then you have put the responsibility on them to go our of their way again in order to make that clear.

[Anarion]

Because most people are thoughtlessly insensitive and when they use that line, they think that you're accusing them of intentionally insulting you, which they didn't do.

Feel free to keep getting upset at that, it's relatively likely to get through to people who otherwise wouldn't pay attention. You could also try humor if you think soneone is being thoughtless rather than malicious.

Edit: fixed typos

[WarKitty]

Ditto on "because people are lazy." And it's kind of like people saying "you're ok for a woman/gamer/teacher" - I'm glad I'm so wonderful I got past your stupid preconceptions? Actually, that might be a good response. Maybe not put quite that way though.

Maybe something like "I'm so glad I've overcome my handicap of being female/a gamer/whatever! It really has been quite a challenge." would work.

[Jay R]

You shouldn't take it personally because it does not serve your purposes to do so.

If you take it personally, the topic of conversation becomes why you take things personally, which is not what you want to talk about.

If you treat it theoretically ("How many Marylanders do you know?" "Have you ever done a fair study of them?", etc.), you may succeed in getting them to question their assumptions.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

It all depends on whether or not they are making a joke or if they are serious. If they generalize, yea, it's usually because they are either lazy or terribly ignorant. If the second were the case, I wouldn't take any offense at all, because they are ignorant. Usually, if someone lumps me into a category without correcting their err, I don't care. I mean, if someone doesn't like you or the group you are affiliated with, you shouldn't really bother giving a hoot. You know the truth about yourself, and anyone who doesn't care to at least respectfully disagree can go shove off. I never quite understood why people got so upset at another person's criticisms, I just kinda always assumed that no one should matter to me except the people that l matter to.

[SiuiS]

Because most people are thoughtlessly insensitive and when they use that line, they think that you're accusing them of intentionally insulting you, which they didn't do.

Feel free to keep getting upset at that, it's relatively likely to get through to people who otherwise wouldn't pay attention. You could also try humor if you think soneone is being thoughtless rather than malicious.

Edit: fixed typos

This all seems good, but granted I'm half awake and preoccupied. Anarion is generally pretty on the ball though. It's his thing.


You shouldn't take it personally because it does not serve your purposes to do so.

Conversely, it's entirely possible to be upset about something without taking it personally. I am white, an get upset whenever someone makes a sweeping comment about, say, black people. Just point out that you aren't taking it personally, and even if you are, a broken clock is right twice a day – you may be taking it personally, but they are still being an anus. They don't cancel out.

[WarKitty]

You shouldn't take it personally because it does not serve your purposes to do so.

If you take it personally, the topic of conversation becomes why you take things personally, which is not what you want to talk about.

If you treat it theoretically ("How many Marylanders do you know?" "Have you ever done a fair study of them?", etc.), you may succeed in getting them to question their assumptions.

I don't know about this. I've found it actually matters how much the person knows that you're a member of that group, and how obvious it is. So, I'm far more likely to respond to a stereotype about women with an offended "Excuse me???" because I am quite plainly a woman. Whereas something about philosophers would more likely get a slightly amused response of "You do realize I'm studying philosophy, don't you?"

[nedz]

You have to read their sub-text.

When someone says "Women/gamers/epileptics/teachers/Americans/Marylanders are dumb!" they are really stating that they are either dumb themselves or they are maybe trying to troll you for a reaction ?

If you are known for taking this kind of thing personally then the latter may well be the case.

[The Succubus]

It's probably a translation problem. When they say "You shouldn't take this personally", it actually means

"I'm going to make a sweeping generalisation about something that includes you. I'm too lazy to expend words that make an exception for you and I can't really be bothered to deal with the anger that it will cause in you.

No offence, though."

[Killer Angel]

It's not personal, in the sense that they're not pointing specifically at you.
But they generalize, putting you in a broad cathegory with the label of "dumb", so you have the right to be offended.
And they cannot even complain: try to insult a crowd... every one could retaliate.


It's probably a translation problem. When they say "You shouldn't take this personally", it actually means

"I'm going to make a sweeping generalisation about something that includes you. I'm too lazy to expend words that make an exception for you and I can't really be bothered to deal with the anger that it will cause in you.

No offence, though."

Maybe, or maybe not. The tone and the contest is important: it's not always this way.

[Jay R]

Making an insulting generalization about a large number of people is being a Type A jerk.

Insulting somebody to her face is being a type B jerk.

When you take it personally, they believe that you are accusing them of being type B jerks, when they are in fact being Type A jerks.

This matters very much to Type A jerks, because they believe that it's all right to be Type A jerks, but not to be type B jerks.

Since they believe that you are accusing them of being a type B jerk, when they were not, they can easily defend themselves from your action by saying, "Why do you take things so personally?", which is code for "Why are you falsely accusing me of intentionally insulting you to your face, when I am really intending to insult thousands of people behind their backs?"

To get anywhere with them, you have to accuse them of doing what they are in fact doing (deliberately insulting thousands of people behind their backs), rather than what they are not doing (deliberately insulting you to your face).

[Karoht]

Why shouldn't I take an attack on an element of my person personally?You should, but within reason.

The words 'do not take it personally' seem to have two different meanings to me, depending on the context.
-Don't be offended
-Don't internalize the offense.
By all means, there is nothing wrong with being offended. But definitely try not to internalize the offense.

As for generalizations and being offended...

Example:
When I say something like "I hate people, people are dumb" does that include you? It's a very broad generalization, and not an attack specifically on you. Or anyone really. It's also a poorly worded, poorly thought out statement, evidenced by the fact that I took the time to say it on a forum or the internet, rather than addressing the person who got my hackles up by doing something I personally deemed stupid.
People have a tendancy to say things they don't mean, or mean things they don't say. Along with things they don't understand. In the specific context of a group of people (lets say Women) they might not grasp that all of at that group might not behave the same. 50% or so of the population is female, does that mean that out of the 7 billion people on planet earth, 3.5 billion of them behave the same way? Unlikely.

On the other hand, generalizations and stereotypes are still hurtful. They speak of a lack of consideration.
Lets say that a lady was at a party. She's having an intellectual conversation with someone, and suddenly the persn she is talking to says 'wow, the women at this party are so vapid' ignoring the woman who he was, up until moments ago, having a non-vapid conversation with. That's pretty hurtful to be ignored like that, or 'lumped in' with such a broad spectrum branding.

Finally, there are all the harmful aspects of any stereotypes and generalizations, though this strays closer to politics than I think I should, so I'll stop myself there. But to carefully summarize what I was about to say, stereotypes and broad generalized judgments against other people have usually lead to some pretty crappy things. Heck, such judgements leveled towards animals have lead to pretty crappy things. Poor sharks. So misunderstood. So to disallow any such generalization or stand up against it, does feel like one is trying to head off such events.

On the internet though? Well, the Gamer Girls and Fake Gamer Girls issue is a pretty good highlight as to why you don't want even one of those comments to stand. Let alone many. Let alone many comments with the added ammunition of derrogatory memes. Let alone a sub-culture that was already toxic towards female gamers BEFORE the Fake Gamer Girls thing started.

[Balor01]

You think that being a Women/gamers/epileptic/teacher/American/Marylander is a bad thing.

Mentioned statements just trigger this opinion. Work on feeling good about yourself.

Except for being an American. That is unsalvageable.

[Jay R]

You think that being a Women/gamers/epileptic/teacher/American/Marylander is a bad thing.

Mentioned statements just trigger this opinion. Work on feeling good about yourself.

Except for being an American. That is unsalvageable.

OK, here's an example. We shouldn't act like he insulted all of us Americans personally. He didn't. He insulted us impersonally, as part of an absurd generalization.

[Karoht]

OK, here's an example. We shouldn't act like he insulted all of us Americans personally. He didn't. He insulted us impersonally, as part of an absurd generalization.A superb way of phrasing that. Bravo!

[scurv]

This is a fun topic! Peoples brains are efficient!!!!!!! So unless the person expends effort they tend to clump things together using 'rules of thumb' Or heuristics, But between that and peoples need to place blame in the 'others character is why we end up with those fazes that quite often can get you ban hammered from forums. You know the ones that follow this format

<Insert social group here> are <insert derogatory trait here>. Part of the reason people will fight those is because they do know they have power. Words do you know, They have changed world history thousands of times, Hell if you wish to get more local about it, consider what a few well placed unkind words can do in grade school, how many people have spent years in a living hell because some loudmouths first impression that they soon blurted was the words <insert back of a middle school bus chatter here> And group think took over and it became a 'fact' in the minds of the social group

[Grinner]

...Part of the reason people will fight those is because they do know they have power. Words do you know, They have changed world history thousands of times...

Let's not undersell ourselves now.

[Trog]

is the question that is asked of me when I get upset or defensive at "Women/gamers/epileptics/teachers/Americans/Marylanders are dumb!" statements. So I have a question to ask back.
Why shouldn't I take an attack on an element of my person personally? This broad category does happen to contain me, so when you say "all" you must mean me, and I do take offense to being called dumb. My bad.
Why does a negative reaction to such a statement confuse or offend those who say such things?

I am posting this in its own thread because I want to reach people who don't hang out in the Woes and Advice thread or wherever you might think this would fit. Thanks!
They are making a disparaging statement against something that they didn't think you'd react negatively to and, when you do, they avoid the responsibility of it by turning the blame upon you.

Who is "right" can be determined on a case by case basis depending on just how disparaging the statement was and how offensive it is considered by most. Calling someone dumb is considered by most to be insulting.

On the other hand if a person always finds statements about a group they identify with offensive even if it clearly wasn't mean to be (think Joe "What-am-I-a-clown-for-your-amusement?" Pesci in Goodfellas), then they might be taking things a bit too personally.

Stick up for what you believe in and call out those who insult you as being insulting if you deem that a conversation that you find worth having. I often find its simpler to think of the person as acting like an idiot and just, you know, get on with my life, but to each their own.

It is much easier to make a generalized statement about "people" than it is to get specific about this person, that person and that other guy over there on that corner. No not that corner, the other one... The guy with stringy blonde hair. Yeah, that one!
Oh god. Oh god Trog thinks he heard you. Is he looking over here? Is he looking over - oh god he's staring right at us. Please don't let him come over here. Please don't let him – oh god he's standing up. What do we do? What do we do?. Okay. Okay, okay, okay just... act natural. *nonchalant whistling*

[Knaight]

You think that being a Women/gamers/epileptic/teacher/American/Marylander is a bad thing.

Mentioned statements just trigger this opinion. Work on feeling good about yourself.

And here I thought that reliable psychoanalysis was an oxymoron in the best of circumstances, let alone from a data set of one short forum post. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.

[Themrys]

is the question that is asked of me when I get upset or defensive at "Women/gamers/epileptics/teachers/Americans/Marylanders are dumb!" statements. So I have a question to ask back.
Why shouldn't I take an attack on an element of my person personally? This broad category does happen to contain me, so when you say "all" you must mean me, and I do take offense to being called dumb. My bad.
Why does a negative reaction to such a statement confuse or offend those who say such things?

Because your negative reaction confronts them with the truth that no, they are not, in fact, a good person.
They don't want to know that, so they're offended when you remind them of it by pointing out that they have offended you.

There are people who think their own lazyness and thoughtlessness is more important than other people's emotional wellbeing.


In my opinion it does not matter whether they make a joke or are serious about it. In most cases, "It's a joke" just means "I find it funny, so you have no right to be offended" not "It was sarcasm and I believe quite the opposite to be true"

It does matter, however, what group it is that is insulted. You don't need to worry about people saying "Americans are dumb", since there is no tradition of discriminating against Americans because they are considered dumb, and the person making the statement very likely is not able to start such a tradition.

Which is why I don't get defensive when people insult my (rich, western) country of origin, but do get offended if someone insults my (relatively badly paid) job.