Vow of Peace Leadership

[Sheogoroth]

Can you take vow of peace/Nonviolence and leadership and have your cohort be a combat oriented character?

[ZamielVanWeber]

RAW: yes-ish. Vow of Peace has the option of a vow not to do harm (and even if they don't he will take ramping penalties for doing so near you). Vow on Nonviolence is much more liberal on that topic.

[Nettlekid]

You would probably have your Cohort promise not to kill creatures at all, as described in the Vow of Nonviolence (the bit where if they promise not to and then do, they take penalties as though you were nearby). Plus, I just don't see someone so ethical as to vow never to harm a creature allowing their cohort to run wild like that.

What makes more sense is being a regular character whose COHORT has Vow of Peace. You can be kind and honor your cohort's wishes when you can, but you need make no vow to your inferior and could send them away ("Run back to camp with this message while I question this fellow, would you?") if you need to get your hands dirty.

[Slipperychicken]

Plus, I just don't see someone so ethical as to vow never to harm a creature allowing their cohort to run wild like that.

Not to mention someone pure enough to qualify for [exalted] feats.


If you take Vow of Peace/Nonviolence, and think you can just get a hitman to take down anyone who inconveniences you... then you have missed the point in a truly spectacular fashion. If the point was a target at the bottom of the Black Sea, then you pointed straight upward, shot into space, and the bullet's still going.

[Crasical]

It may be that your disciple is striving to reach your level of enlightenment but hasn't achieved it just yet. You may want to keep your most headstrong apprentice close by to learn from you, or it may be that your more peacefully-inclined followers are monastic and ill-suited for the adventuring life. Your violent follower may be a street rogue or feral barbarian who is finding it difficult to give up the life of violence, or even a monsterous cohort that is slowly moving away from his or her evil ways. There are some nice Ukiyo-e prints from japan of Oni, japanese ogres/demons, dressed in Buddhist Robes as converts. (http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/-tsu-e-figure-demon-converted-to-buddhism-oni-no-nenbutsu-461721) I think it would be very interesting to have a member of an 'always chaotic evil' race who's trying to reform under your guidance, but who isn't spiritually ready to take sacred vows yet.

[Hytheter]

Doesn't the vow of peace allow nonlethal damage? You could probably have a strong, but non-lethal combat cohort.
Someone focusing on unarmed attacks, or a sap, or with subduing strike could work.
Or just have him take the -4 penalty on attacks to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal...

Swearing not to harm any living thing and then having your pal kill everything instead seems to be against the point though, even if it is technically rules legal.

[JonU]

I wouldn't be opposed to somebody with those Vows having a bodyguard of sorts. My stipulation would be that either one of you would be limited to non-lethal damage. Here is a quick excerpt from Vow of Nonviolence: "You may
not deal real damage or ability damage to such foes through spells or weapons,
though you may deal nonlethal damage."
Then Vow of Peace also says You may nor deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons, though you may deal nonlethal damage."
Vow of Nonviolence limits this to humanoids and monstrous humanoids. Vow of Peace says that constructs and undead are excluded. The way I see it is that you have focused on avoiding combat entirely and have focused on social skills. So your cohort is your bodyguard who you've had promise not to use lethal force for any reason.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Vow of Peace/Nonviolence is no problem at all if you have someone in the party who has the authority to pass down judgement and execution, sort of like the street judges from Judge Dredd.

[Nettlekid]

Vow of Peace/Nonviolence is no problem at all if you have someone in the party who has the authority to pass down judgement and execution, sort of like the street judges from Judge Dredd.

No no no no NO, that's the whole reason why people say that Vow of Peace is bad because it forces the party to act differently. A pure, exalted, VoP character cannot just let others kill for him in order to circumvent the vow. That's not the point of the vow. The point is to prevent harm from coming to a creature. A Vow of Peace character should be wary of letting allies do even lethal damage, but should take steps to prevent allies from being able to kill. If a VoP character stood by and knowingly let allies kill, I say they should lose their vow.

[GameSpawn]

A Vow of Peace character should be wary of letting allies do even lethal damage, but should take steps to prevent allies from being able to kill. If a VoP character stood by and knowingly let allies kill, I say they should lose their vow.

RaW at least, it's only a problem to let your allies kill if you've incapacitated their victim or if the foe is helpless. You can, of course, run/play your game however you like, but what you suggest is much harsher than the rules. Unless the parties in the habit of killing defeated enemies, the Vow of Peace shouldn't change the behavior of anyone else (or at least not by the rules).

There's also no exception for someone who's had judgement passed on them (though Vow of Nonviolence has an exception for people who broke a vow of surrender to you).

There are no special rules (that I'm aware of) for cohorts; they're treated like any other ally.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No no no no NO, that's the whole reason why people say that Vow of Peace is bad because it forces the party to act differently. A pure, exalted, VoP character cannot just let others kill for him in order to circumvent the vow. That's not the point of the vow. The point is to prevent harm from coming to a creature. A Vow of Peace character should be wary of letting allies do even lethal damage, but should take steps to prevent allies from being able to kill. If a VoP character stood by and knowingly let allies kill, I say they should lose their vow.

It specifically says they prefer to capture enemies so they can be brought to justice in a fair trial. If the local version of a 'fair trial' is for a street judge-type character to sentence the opponents to death for the attempted murder of a street judge, then it's absolutely in line with those vows.

[GameSpawn]

It specifically says they prefer to capture enemies so they can be brought to justice in a fair trial. If the local version of a 'fair trial' is for a street judge-type character to sentence the opponents to death for the attempted murder of a street judge, then it's absolutely in line with those vows.

But it also says if you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, then you've broken your vow; by RaW, at least, there's no exception for lawful executions (unless you'd care to argue that the executioner isn't your ally :smalltongue:).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

But it also says if you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, then you've broken your vow; by RaW, at least, there's no exception for lawful executions (unless you'd care to argue that the executioner isn't your ally :smalltongue:).

There is a difference between turning your back and moving >120 ft. away to allow your party to finish off defeated opponents, and a legitimate judge handing down a legitimate sentence and execution to a criminal. That a given creature was at one time your foe does not mean that your vow is broken if that creature is ever slain. That creature ceases to be a defeated/helpless foe the moment it is arrested and turned over to the proper authorities. What happens to them after that point has no affect on your vow, even if those proper authorities includes another party member.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Note Vow of Peace under RAW only trips if you (he who holds the feat) successfully incapacitate someone. If they break free from your incapacitation and the party fighter gets pissed off (he just spend three rounds doing nonlethal to the dude stuck in the Web) and lobs his head off, the vow holder is fine.

[Hytheter]

Note Vow of Peace under RAW only trips if you (he who holds the feat) successfully incapacitate someone. If they break free from your incapacitation and the party fighter gets pissed off (he just spend three rounds doing nonlethal to the dude stuck in the Web) and lobs his head off, the vow holder is fine.

You'd probably be expected to do some in-character reprimanding though. :p