Durkon's Next Move (and the 3E rules)

[Jay R]

1. How long does it take for an enthralled vampire to recognize and assert his independence?

2. What actions of a vampire/cleric can defeat an elemental?

3. Can Durkula defeat Z and Nale? [And would that be a high enough priority to spend time on?]

[RMS Oceanic]

1. How long does it take for an enthralled vampire to recognize and assert his independence?

2. What actions of a vampire/cleric can defeat an elemental?

3. Can Durkula defeat Z and Nale? [And would that be a high enough priority to spend time on?]

1. Not defined, but generally considered instantaneous.

2. Dismissal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dismissal.htm) or Banishment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/banishment.htm) would end the fight pretty quickly.

3. Depends on whether Z has another dispel prepared, and what a newly asserted Durkon decides to do. Revenge or Regroup?

[DaggerPen]

1. Not defined, but generally considered instantaneous.

2. Dismissal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dismissal.htm) or Banishment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/banishment.htm) would end the fight pretty quickly.

3. Depends on whether Z has another dispel prepared, and what a newly asserted Durkon decides to do. Revenge or Regroup?

Hrm. Banishment seems unlikely - Durkon's out of spells above the fifth level, right? - but Dismissal might be an option. Unless he has a scroll?

[Sunken Valley]

Thor's Might!

[Jiggs]

1. How long does it take for an enthralled vampire to recognize and assert his independence?

2. What actions of a vampire/cleric can defeat an elemental?

3. Can Durkula defeat Z and Nale? [And would that be a high enough priority to spend time on?]

To 1) I don't know what the rules say but regardless I would suppose Durkon would need a moment to come to terms with the fact that he is now undead and no longer a priest of Thor, I suppose.

To 2) again I don't know of the rules but a dismissal spell, if he can cast it would be a good way to help the group.
Regardless he could order his devil to seize the attack on the group and to help them (against the elemental or the daemon)

To 3) helping the group is a higher priority considering the shape they are in, than bringing another foe into the fight.

[Green and Red]

As a bit of a side question:

Assuming he wants to, could undead durkon self-ressurect?
Now by RAW on ressurection you would have to destroy an undead first, however his talk with Malack before seems to indicate that it could be done on an existant vampire. There is in fact some predecent with undead that can be target of ressurection if they are willing.

Of course, assuming he could, what would be the chance that he wants to do this?

[Byzantine2]

As a bit of a side question:

Assuming he wants to, could undead durkon self-ressurect?
Now by RAW on ressurection you would have to destroy an undead first, however his talk with Malack before seems to indicate that it could be done on an existant vampire. There is in fact some predecent with undead that can be target of ressurection if they are willing.

Of course, assuming he could, what would be the chance that he wants to do this?

He was talking about destroying Malack, then raising him, so no, he can't raise himself. he could, though, allow himself to be staked and raised by the next cleric with the needed levels.

[prism6691]

Thor's Might!
I'm guessing that it would become a negative plane version of the spell. (Its technically Righteous Might but his worship of Thor changes the name) Unholy Might or something maybe

[EnragedFilia]

To 2) again I don't know of the rules but a dismissal spell, if he can cast it would be a good way to help the group.
Regardless he could order his devil to seize the attack on the group and to help them (against the elemental or the daemon)

Dismissal is effectively will-save-or-die against a summoned outsider. V landed 3 out of 3 from scrolls against Redcloak's titanium elementals, but those were large or huge at most, which is much less powerful than the elder silicon elemental (leaving aside the silly questions about whether silicon should have a stronger or weaker will than titanium), so he would probably need it prepared to have a decent chance of that working.

The 'self-resurrection', as I mentioned in another thread, could possibly be achieved by Haley using his scroll with UMD if her buffed skill is a few points higher (6 points to be precise) than required for the sending scroll mentioned in 834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html).

[Vemynal]

Anyone think that Durkon might have no memory of being a vampire? Waking up to the current situation and not realizing his condition or having memories of the past?

[Jay R]

Anyone think that Durkon might have no memory of being a vampire? Waking up to the current situation and not realizing his condition or having memories of the past?

If so, his last memory is dying and being drained to become a vampire.

[Vemynal]

He seemed pretty happy about dying, I always thought he didn't know he would be raised as undead

[prism6691]

Regardless if he was or is aware, he will probably have an existential crisis that will be set aside when he sees his friends in jeopardy.

[JackRackham]

For dramatic reasons, I would assume resurrection is off the table, at least for a long while. I just can't see Rich planning to vamp Durkon for so long, even creating Malack as a character for the purpose, if he planned on reversing the process right away. I see this as his long-awaited character development. Besides, even assuming Durkon is not evil and wants to be raised, I would think his duty to protect the last gate would take precedent.

I'm more curious to see how Roy reacts to all this, and how Durkon deals with being a vampire. I've been waiting anxiously for that one. Honestly, this next strip (assuming there's no cutaway, and assuming this is the strip where he reacts to being a vampire) is the one I've been waiting for ever since he was turned.

[Reddish Mage]

Regardless if he was or is aware, he will probably have an existential crisis that will be set aside when he sees his friends in jeopardy.

I find the idea that the first free act of a newly created evil undead being will be to come to his good allies aid, odd. That would be old Durkon acting.

Vampire Durkon may or may not have it in for Nale. The first thing he did as a thrall was proclaim hunger for blood. Then he followed orders and suggested actions with all the emotional depth of a B-movie Renfield. Now that he's free he may still be controlled by blood hunger passions, want revenge on Nale, or perhaps he will see a group of evil adventures (or Tarquin) as his natural allies, as he desires to fufill some evil scheme foreign to old Durkon.

[Jay R]

Well, he won't be happy about his new status. But what the heck does happiness have ta do wit' bein' a dwarf?? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html)

Spoilers from On the Origin of the PCs:
Referring to a party that wanted him dead, Durkon said, "It don't matter none that they be rotten warts on tha arse o' tha world, I still have a duty not ta get 'em killed. Tha's what bein' a dwarf is all aboot."

Not what bein' Good is aboot. Not what bein' a priest is all aboot. Not what followin' Thor is all aboot.

What bein' a dwarf is all aboot.

And he's still a dwarf.

I conclude that it don't matter none that the Order be a fine group for a bunch o' humans. And an elf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html). It don't matter none that they be noble heroes tryin' ta save tha world, he still has a duty not ta get em' killed. Tha's what bein' a dwarf is all aboot.

[Fish]

Regardless he could order his devil to seize the attack on the group and to help them (against the elemental or the daemon)
I see your location is Germany. The word I think you meant is cease (to stop) not seize (to grab suddenly, or to capture).

Still, I think it likely that Durkon's devil will play a role. However, as he is short on spells, I assume Durkon's move is to use his wits: to turn Z and Nale against each other, with a crafty lie or a craftier truth.

[David Argall]

I see your location is Germany. The word I think you meant is cease (to stop) not seize (to grab suddenly, or to capture).

Still, I think it likely that Durkon's devil will play a role. However, as he is short on spells, I assume Durkon's move is to use his wits: to turn Z and Nale against each other, with a crafty lie or a craftier truth.
Durkon has no option to lie here. Any delay and he risks the death of the party, making the lie a true offer to help the LG. And while Durkon has managed some serious "misunderstandings", he ranks pretty highly on the "always tells the truth" scale. So his ability to con Nale was pretty low.

[Fish]

The truth would do: Durkon has just returned from the plane of Ranch Dressing to rescue V. Hearing that would upset Z -- it means Qaar betrayed him. That could take 1 caster out of the fight, as Z interrogates Qaar. If Z decides that his familiar planned this with Sabine, he could vent his frustrations at Nale. You never know.

[Olinser]

1. How long does it take for an enthralled vampire to recognize and assert his independence?

2. What actions of a vampire/cleric can defeat an elemental?

3. Can Durkula defeat Z and Nale? [And would that be a high enough priority to spend time on?]

With regards to Thralls, by the rules, they never get their free will back unless the vampire that created them specifically allows it (or is destroyed). Obviously Rich could add in a Will save or something if the vampire orders them to do something absolutely insane, but barring suicidal commands and the like, Thralls are completely obedient to their masters.

With regards to combat, at this point the question is not what actions a vampire cleric can take. It is specifically what actions DURKON can take.

Remember, he is almost completely out of spells.

He basically has 2 options against the elemental (and Z/Nale):

1) Heals - if Roy is actually hurting the elemental, Durkon just has to keep him alive for another round or two. Likewise, he appears to be at full health, while Nale and Z have some serious damage on them. Assuming Z doesn't have another GDM to take off his Protection from Sunlight (or Durkon can cast it from the staff if he does), Durkon ought to wipe the floor with the 2 of them in just a round or 2.

2) Thor's Might. Elemental goes SPLAT. Nale/Z go SPLAT. I'm putting heavy odds on this one.

[SavageWombat]

I'm betting that Nale and Z try to recruit Durkula and D hits them both with the stick. Just putting that out there.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm betting that Nale and Z try to recruit Durkula and D hits them both with the stick. Just putting that out there.

Pity this post was stuck in a 59-minute timewarp. :smallbiggrin:

[SavageWombat]

Pity this post was stuck in a 59-minute timewarp. :smallbiggrin:

What, is there a new strip up? :smallwink:

[Reddish Mage]

So Durkon's first move was to attack Nale and Z cause they're "the same old *****." That could indicate loyalty to his old self and the order, but he didn't go to help the order first thing like good old Durkon might. In light of that I think the giant may go for subtle evil Durkon that rejoins the order but the vampirism causes problems, particularly Durkon's alignment is still evil (in the original comic, Durkon "turned undead" but Rich wanted to keep him in the order before deciding he would one day create a plot for the purpose of letting Durkon's in death happen so it would be a major part of the plot).

The alternative, that Durkon leaves to pursue his own path, is unlikely in that it gives us ANOTHER side to deal with.

[SavageWombat]

So Durkon's first move was to attack Nale and Z cause they're "the same old *****." That could indicate loyalty to his old self and the order, but he didn't go to help the order first thing like good old Durkon might.

Can Durkon see the OotS at this point? I got the impression that Nale was up on a ridge compared to them. Maybe he just hasn't noticed yet, what with the LG right in front of him.

[Lesingnon]

3. Depends on whether Z has another dispel prepared, and what a newly asserted Durkon decides to do. Revenge or Regroup?

It's worth noting that even if Z has another dispell ready Durkon's holding a staff that he knows contains Protection from Daylight, and almost certainly has enough cleric levels to use it. So long as he doesn't let them disarm him he should be able to keep the abjuration up.

[Dalek Kommander]

An interesting option for Durkula at this point would be to immediately run into the pit, take command of his summoned monster, and team up with the order of the stick against their mutual enemies. The oots would probably say something like "can we trust him now that he's a vampire?" and he'd reply "can you afford to turn my assistance down?"

This gambit would at the very least serve his short-term interest in having a chance to survive his nigh-inevitable conflict with Nale, who surely sees him as a loose end in need of snipping before Tarquin returns... but after Nale is defeated, who's to say he wouldn't at least offer to stay with the order indefinitely?

After all, as a free-willed vampire Durkula should have most of Durkon's personality, including his unimpeachable lawfulness. Why would he let a little thing like "turning evil" change his opinion of the importance of teamwork, or the strategic value of having strong personal relationships with your useful allies? If anything, his new perspective makes him value good allies even MORE, now that he's free to exploit them for his own personal advantage. MWAH HA HA HA!

Whether or not it goes down exactly like that, I expect at least one conversation between Durkula and Roy that mirrors the conversation between Durkon and Malack: "I thought we were such good FRIENDS, why are you willing to throw something that priceless away over a petty little detail like my blood-sucking vampirism?"

[Reddish Mage]

I'm thinking what's going to happen next is its time for Tarquin to show up. There's also Elan's surprise on the back burner. V needs to show up too, its going to be very busy.

[Dark Matter]

Elementals aren't immune to negative energy. We might see an "Inflict" spell combo'ed with Durkon's two negative energy levels. It's even possible he's got "Harm".

[Quorothorn]

Elementals aren't immune to negative energy. We might see an "Inflict" spell combo'ed with Durkon's two negative energy levels. It's even possible he's got "Harm".

Not really possible for a Harm: he said earlier he was out of spells above 4th level except for, IIRC, Thor's Might (i.e. Righteous Might, a 5th-level spell that cannot be spontaneously turned into a Harm) and Planar Ally (which as a 6th-level COULD be so converted...if he hadn't cast it to summon the barbed devil earlier). But a lesser Inflict is certainly on the table yet.

[TheIronGolem]

Whether or not it goes down exactly like that, I expect at least one conversation between Durkula and Roy that mirrors the conversation between Durkon and Malack: "I thought we were such good FRIENDS, why are you willing to throw something that priceless away over a petty little detail like my blood-sucking vampirism?"

After dealing with Belkar all this time, Vampire Durkon shouldn't even move the needle.

[EnragedFilia]

and Planar Ally (which as a 6th-level COULD be so converted...if he hadn't cast it to summon the barbed devil earlier). But a lesser Inflict is certainly on the table yet.

As has been said repeatedly, harm is not considered an inflict spell and cannot be cast spontaneously by an evil cleric.

[Jay R]

Assuming that the broken teeth are an indication that Zz'dtri can't pronounce spell names now, can somebody inform me about the Silent feat? Does the spell have to be memorized in Silent form in the morning, or can this feat be added on at times like this, when the spellcaster suddenly loses the ability to perform the Verbal component correctly?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Assuming that the broken teeth are an indication that Zz'dtri can't pronounce spell names now, can somebody inform me about the Silent feat? Does the spell have to be memorized in Silent form in the morning, or can this feat be added on at times like this, when the spellcaster suddenly loses the ability to perform the Verbal component correctly?

A Wizard (which Z is) needs to have the spell prepared as a Silent Spell to cast it Silent. There are a few work arounds, but as far we know, Z does not have access to any of them (not the he couldn't).

As it were, I'm doubting missing a few teeth will hamper Z's spell casting much more than being deaf does (which is a 20% chance of botching any spell with Verbal components). As far as I know of though, there is no RAW about suddenly missing teeth, so it'd be the DM discretion (or Giant in this case). I'd be totally cool if the teeth was just added detail of Durkula's new Vampire Strength.