[3.5] How would YOU build a Sniper?

[A.A.King]

Sniping, the Archery version of the Hit-and-Run technique. Hit-and-Hide hoping that they can't hit what they can't see. It's a nice idea but difficult to pull off, especially at the early levels, and combined with the fact that it is focused on large ranges (which you don't usually get in combat) it is more of an NPC ambush style of combat. But the idea is still one of my favorite kind of things so wondering how other people would utilize this tactic

[Lightlawbliss]

Factotum can make a good one.

[Psyren]

Where's that one build that shoots them from so far away they can't even make their spot check?

[A.A.King]

I don't know were it is but I'm definitely interested. Do wonder though how you would spot them if they definitely can't spot you and how often you could use that skill in a campaign

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd probably build one that looked like this:



The Murderous Sniper

BUILD STUB: Human, Ranger 2/Wilderness Feat Rogue 4/Deepwood Sniper 7/Chameleon 7

PROGRESSION:

(Dedicated to an Elder Evil of your choosing.)

1. Feat Rogue1- PBS, Precise Shot, Able Learner, Evil Brand
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Ranger2- Rapid Shot, Darkstalker
4. Feat Rogue2- WF (Comp. Longbow)
5. Feat Rogue3- Blood War Conscript
6. Feat Rogue4- Far Shot, Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
7. Deepwood Sniper1-
8. DWS2-
9. DWS3- Knowledge Devotion
10. DWS4- Murderous Intent
11. Chameleon1-
12. Chameleon2- Martial Stance (Assassin’s Stance)
13. DWS5-
14. DWS6-
15. DWS7- Apostate, Craven
16. Chameleon3-
17. Chameleon4-
18. Chameleon5- Maiming Strike
19. Chameleon6-
20. Chameleon7- Insane Defiance


All of the relevant stealth and tracking goodies, including Darkstalker, excellent skill ranks, and any stealth related spells as needed.
Poison Use, plus Chameleon spells for minor creation to make poisons on demand.
Murderous Intent automatically confirms any crits versus favored enemies. Arcane Hunter gives a huge range of favored enemies (anyone who can cast spells or SLAs), and the Chameleon floating bonus feat can pick up additional enemies on demand via Extra Favored Enemy.
Kaorti resin arrows allow for ×6 crits, for hunter's mercy/Murderous Intent fun.
Hunter's eye brings the sneak attack up to +8d6 for 4 points of Charisma damage (which is multiplied on a crit, unlike the variable sneak attack damage would be). That's a solid 24 points of Charisma damage on every successful crit. Sniper's shot lets you do this from any range.


So, assuming a +2 collision energy bow with GMW cast on it, and a +4 strength bonus, we can look at something like...

1d8 +2 FE +20 craven +1 Blood War Conscript +5 enhancement +5 collision +4 strength +17 power shot +5 knowledge devotion = 1d8+59 base damage. So with a single arrow, we're looking at a MINIMUM of 360 points of damage, plus poison and 24 points of Charisma damage. That's just from the first shot that successfully hits - if this fails to KO, the remaining shots should.


Or maybe, depending on the DM, like this:



The TISP Sniper

BUILD STUB: Gray Elf, Feat Rogue 2/Ranger 2/Martial Wizard 1/Assassin 1/Earth Dreamer 5/Arcane Archer 2/Nar Demonbinder 1/Unseen Seer 6
ACFs: Feat rogue, martial wizard, immediate magic (abrupt jaunt)

PROGRESSION:
1. Feat Rogue1- Point Blank Shot, Darkstalker
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Ranger2- Rapid Shot, Iron Will
4. Feat Rogue2- Precise Shot
5. Martial Wizard1- Weapon Focus (Longbow)
6. Assassin1- Earth Spell
7. Unseen Seer1-
8. Earth Dreamer1-
9. Earth Dreamer2- Spell Focus (Conjuration)
10. Arcane Archer1-
11. Arcane Archer2-
12. Earth Dreamer3- Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
13. Earth Dreamer4-
14. Earth Dreamer5-
15. Nar Demonbinder1- Practiced Spellcaster (Assassin)
16. Unseen Seer2-
17. Unseen Seer3-
18. Unseen Seer4- Practiced Spellcaster (Nar Demonbinder)
19. Unseen Seer5-
20. Unseen Seer6-

Assassin spells known:
1- Sniper's Shot, True Strike, Shock and Awe, Ebon Eyes
2- Brilliant Energy Arrow, Spellslayer Arrow, Alter Self, Darkness
3- Create Fetch, Arrowsplit, Magic Circle Against Good, False Life
4- Assassin's Darkness, Glibness

Nar Demonbinder spells known:
2- Hunter's Eye*
4- Lesser Planar Binding, Dimensional Anchor, SMIV, Wall of Fire
5- Flame Strike, Plane Shift, Spell Resistance, SMV
6- Greater Dispel Magic, Planar Binding, Fiendform
7- Blasphemy, Fire Storm, Moment of Prescience*
8- Greater Planar Binding

*Advanced Learning

The goal of this build is to combine Earth Dreamer's Earth Sight ability with the Assassin spell Brilliant Energy Arrow. The idea is to be able to fire brilliant energy arrows through dirt, walls, etc., from hiding. Since Brilliant Energy Arrow means I'll be firing single shots, I thought I'd add in Arcane Archer for Imbue Arrow. This way I can fire things like Blasphemy or Fire Storm from the other side of a wall.

Now, just to get this out of the way: your DM has every reason to say this won't work. Brilliant Energy does not turn the whole weapon into brilliant energy, only a significant portion (the head of the arrow). Technically it still says that the arrow will ignore any nonliving material, but it's a stretch, and I would highly recommend getting this DM-approved before springing it on anyone (as I would with any build). I'm mostly going by rule of cool here - the idea of tracking someone from behind a wall or underneath their feat, then peppering them with imbued brilliant energy arrows, is just too cool to not include.

[JaronK]

The "hit from so far away they can't see you" build uses Cleric, so you can cast Chain of Eyes and then fly over the party shooting at anyone the party sees (you use the party as a spotter).

It works pretty well.

Also, Hidden Talent for Psionic Minor Creation can give you insane amounts of very deadly poison, which can be quite effective.

Jaronk

[DR27]

I don't know were it is but I'm definitely interested. Do wonder though how you would spot them if they definitely can't spot you and how often you could use that skill in a campaignNot that there is such a thing published in 3.5, but I kinda wish that there was a way to target using divination spells. Or at least have a spotter help you in that way. Magically enhanced gnome crossbow sight? The current crunch is lacking, however.

EDIT: swordsage'd

[sleepyphoenixx]

Emperor Tippy's Bird of Prey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286818) can kill from half a mile away.

[Renen]

Emperor Tippy's Bird of Prey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286818) can kill from half a mile away.

Exactly what I was gonna suggest when I saw the thread title.

[Segev]

Probably start with Scout, maybe a level splash of Barbarian once you can afford a Mighty bow. The two +10 ft. enhacements to speed and the Skirmish will help. I don't think anything about Rage says you can't use Hide while doing it, strangely enough.

As a Sniper, you're looking for maximizing damage on one good shot. Not even Manyshot, here; you want to take one shot and do massive damage.

Skirmish is good for helping with this, though you might need a (possibly custom) feat or class feature to allow you to use it at long range.


Thinking more on it, no, I think you don't want the Barbarian level. Start as an Elven Wizard. This gives you proficiency with longbows from your race, and you can enchant your bow with Magic Weapon and prepare True Strike. Multiple times. As a sniper, you're going to spend your time lining up shots anyway; firing once every other round from far range is going to serve you well. Scribe scrolls of True Strike to back it up a bit more; scrolls can be pricey, but they're an excellent way to really make a low-level wizard have enough spells to go around.

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, unless you're really going to exploit the low-light vision and he Listen bonus in order to try to locate distant targets with Concealment (so you can target the right square and use True Strike), don't bother with an elf, either. Go human for the bonus feat. Or halfling or gnome for the small size and any attendant bonuses to hide.

Use a Heavy Crossbow, and keep two of them. With a 120 ft. range, it's perfect for a sniper. You're planning to be at as extreme a range as you can. Again, prepare lots of True Strike. Prepare at least one Unseen Servant; its job is to load a heavy crossbow every round for you, so you have a move and standard action to do with as you please. Yes, you're only firing every other round, but that just means your Servant has time to move to keep up with you when you move. You will want the "other" round free for casting True Strike, after all. You can even keep Launch Bolt around in case you're caught in close range without any loaded crossbows. "Close" for you is "anything within 80 ft.," since that's light crossbow range.

If you can afford it, a rank of Ride and a horse would not be remiss. The penalties for firing your heavy crossbow while mounted are still easily handled by the True Strike +20. And most of the time, you shouldn't be worried about that anyway unless something's gone wrong or you've managed to make your target go into full retreat. Mounted Archery can reduce those penalties still more.

I am not sure what feats to recommend at levels one and three. Level 3 Wizard, though, you want to start investing in Heroics, the 2nd level Sor/Wiz spell in Spell Compendium. You're going to want to be able to cast it a few times; it will give you all the "archer" feats you want, if you haven't picked them up: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot...anything a fighter could get. I'm pretty sure there are feats for improving damage with crossbows.

Sadly, you CAN'T get Weapon Specialization for another +2 damage. You'll need other sources of extra damage on your weapon.

As you get higher level and more 2nd level slots, don't forget your Cat's Grace for improved dex, too.

At low levels, you're not going to be sniping things to death in one shot, typically (though it's feasible when you're level 1 and hitting things with only one HD; 1d10 is not unrespectable). Your main tactic will be a bit of a longer game, harrying a foe until you kill a few or force them into retreat. If they're coming after you, ride your mount to maintain distance and just keep firing. If you DO invest feats into Far Shot before you can cast enough Heroics to get it "free," you're at 150-180 feet, easily, at no penalty and with double-digit to-hit bonuses every other round. They're not catching up to your mount, and you're hitting them consistently. Your greatest risk is running out of True Strikes.

You are going to want to start putting +1d6 tags on your crossbow, though, and to scour the spell selection for things which add damage to single hits or to weapons. Burning Blade is sadly melee-only, but it's the right idea if you can find similar spells for any (or ranged) weapon(s).

At level 5, you want to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor. You're going to be able to afford your magic crossbow to your own specifications much more easily this way. You also can make enchanted crossbow bolts. +1 spell storing is a VERY good choice for you, given your focus and your wizardly arsenal. While you may still launch the occasional fireball, you're more aiming to keep your high-level spells (which is 3rd, for now) as things you can use to pace yourself, so being able to store spells - even just single target ones - in your bolts to use THEM as you like is a good option. For sheer damage, I'm fond of Chain Missile and Combustion.

You may also consider using Haste to get yourself a second free attack each round. Not with your crossbow, because you want to continue to exploit True Strike as much as possible. However, you want to use your Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat to make yourself some +1 spell storing shurikens. So what if you're not profficient? You're putting True Strike in them, and hitting yourself in the foot each round before firing your crossbow. Now you get 1 attack per round. This hurts (literally, 2 hp) and is expensive, but you ARE making sure to get paid for your specialized skills, right?

By now, as well, you probably want to have a wand of true strike. Go ahead and pay full price for it, unless you want to spend your 6th level feat on Craft Wand. Although, in all honesty, with how much you spam it, if you've not got other uses for your level 3 feat, you may as well craft a command-word item of that spell. It's only 1800 gp for an at-will command-activate wondrous item. Half that with the Craft feat. Or commission one at full price. You could make it require having the spell in your spells known/spellbook if you want, for 30% decrease. 1260 gp isn't so much for something you'll use so much, now is it?

Either way, you have True Strike pretty commonly now. Look through Summon Monster for some things with Scent and a good mechanism to mark a target square. Even if they have to contend with the concealment of an invisible or otherwise hidden creature, you can use their mark of the right square to fire into it with no miss chance at all!

And, finally, once you hit level 6, if you haven't had a better use for your feats and don't mind the somewhat dead ones going up, you can get Arcane Thesis: Launch Bolt at level 6, and start using chaingun tactics. It's shorter range than your sniping crossbow, but it's sure to make people regret trying to close that distance!

[Psyren]

Emperor Tippy's Bird of Prey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286818) can kill from half a mile away.

That's the one

[Blightedmarsh]

Slightly out of the remit for this thread but I would go for a pixie warlock (if I could get LA buy off) with eldritch spear on a rod.

Its got range, utility, movement options, UMD, tiny size and stealth. You can also detach you eyball for use as a forward spotter

[BowStreetRunner]

My idea of a sniper is "one shot, one kill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258075)", which requires death attack at range. So Assassin with Sniper's Eye would be involved.

[A.A.King]

Damn, these are some amazing suggestions. Every time I look at these theoretical builds I feel like I play the game wrong. My planning so far didn't go much further then combining Halfling Rogue's 10th "Snipping Mastery" with "Crossbow Sniper" and the like which admittedly wouldn't come close to the damage those builds put out. However these great suggestions to me seem to be more focused on long distance and/or OTK snipping then the Hit-And-Hide kind of sniping. They are still great though with my favourite being the Earth Dreamer version, firing Arrows from behind the Wall is definetly an awesome imagine and very close to my love of hit-and-hide. The only difference being that firing from behind a wall is better cover then simply hiding could ever give.

EDIT:
The One Shot one Kill is also very close to my heart

[Segev]

The one question I have about the tiny eagle in Tippy's build is how it wields a ranged weapon of sufficient range. Or is it doing it in were-human form?

Very impressive, though. (RAW-legal, but when you start doing the Dark Chaos shuffle, most DMs I know start saying "uh, no.")

[sleepyphoenixx]

The one question I have about the tiny eagle in Tippy's build is how it wields a ranged weapon of sufficient range. Or is it doing it in were-human form?

Very impressive, though. (RAW-legal, but when you start doing the Dark Chaos shuffle, most DMs I know start saying "uh, no.")

It's a Soulbow so it shoots mind arrows.

[Manly Man]

Slightly out of the remit for this thread but I would go for a pixie warlock (if I could get LA buy off) with eldritch spear on a rod.

Its got range, utility, movement options, UMD, tiny size and stealth. You can also detach you eyball for use as a forward spotter

Similar, but I'd use a Fine creature for the Warlock (awakened spider, perhaps?) with a metamagic rod of Enlarge SLA, giving your Eldritch Spear'd blast a range of up to 800 ft., plus whatever bonus you get from your caster level. That, coupled with a +16 on your attack bonus, means that pretty much nothing will escape your attacks.

[Segev]

Hm. Warlock sniper. If you made a psychic equivalent of the warlock/mage PrC, you could attach your severed eye to your flying psicrystal to gain a flying extra spotter who can use his psychic sight to point out to your eye where to look for things you can't easily see yourself.

[Eldariel]

Deepwood Sniper from Masters of the Wild, combined with the Ranger-spell "Hunter's Mercy". Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine is optimal but normal Ranger is okay too; Quickening it is nice either way. Eh, check KSBSnowOwl's builds.

I'd pretty much do the exact same thing so no point in repeating:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=653.0

[JaronK]

Fun way to do it: Cleric (with Animal Domain) into PrC Ranger (to get the Ranger spells), using Zen Archery and Persistent Spell. You can get some serious damage that way.

JaronK

[Dirac Lotus]

Where's that one build that shoots them from so far away they can't even make their spot check?

I posted a sniper build not too long ago, with the emphasis on shooting from as far as possible with sneak attacks, so that they're dead by the time they get to you. Went something like this:
Rogue 3 / Ranger 1 / Fighter 4 / Assassin 5 / Nightsong Enforcer 1 / Cragtop Archer 4 / Swordsage 1 / Binder 1
Gets you 6d6 sneak attack (and assassin's stance for 2d6 more), Rapid Shot, Farsight (half penalty on range attacks), Arcing shot (shoot up to 15 range increments) and Horizon Shot (full round action shoot with not range penalties). Get the Sniper's Eye assassin spell.

For feats, Crossbow Sniper is a good one that lets you sneak attack at up to 60' usually, and adds some of your dex to damage, Ranged Weapon mastery adds 20' to your weapons range increment. Other two main ones were Craven and Far Shot (double the range increment).

The crossbow was Splitting (bolt splits in 2 for double attacks), Distance (double range increment), Deadly Precision and Seeking. Give it a Gnomish Crossbow Sight to ignore the penalty for the first two range increments. Slap on a demolition and truedeath (MiC) crystal for good measure.
Last thing to get is a Glass of Distance (Sandstorm) that lets you see up to 10 miles so you can actually see what you're shooting at and is useful to make a quick getaway.

Using a heavy crossbow, he could shoot 4 bolts (6 with haste, either 4 or 2 with sneak attack depending on how the GM interprets splitting) with a maximum range of 140 (base) x 1.5 (far shot) x 2 (distance) x 15 (max increments) = 6300 feet. With only a -13 attack penalty, something true strike easily fixes.

Then either pump hide or go greater invisible and pepper your opponent to death long before he can even reach you.

[ArqArturo]

Depends. A Ranger/Scout/Deepwood sniper makes a monstrous sniper. In the case of Arcane, anything involved with SpellWarp Sniper (save for Warlock) makes a frightening Sniper.