Vorpal Whip Build Help

[Arkusus]

So okay, just for kicks, when I noticed that whips do slashing damage (and therefore qualify for the Vorpal enchantment) I thought it would be amusing to try out a maximized build.

The goal is simple, create a character that can slay the largest dragons, but cannot slay a level 1 skeleton.

Currently, I've got about a 48% chance to beat any dragon except Great Wyrm Red, Gold and Silver dragons. If Red or Gold use their breath attack, I'll likely only have a 5% chance (from winning initiative and using a charge attack).


AC is rather irrelevant for this, but I did go ahead and give my character armor, cause... well, I had the money. The build goes as follows:

Race: Human
Class: Level 12 fighter (Level 12 is the minimum level to afford a vorpal whip with starting gold) mostly for the BAB and the extra feats.
Feats: Exotic Proficiency Whip
Weapon Focus Whip
Power Critical (whip) x9
Improved Initiative
Danger Sense

Equipment:
+1 Vorpal Whip
Generic Armor and Tower Shield
Boots of Speed
could also afford a cloak of resistance +1, or ring or amulet for +1 armor, but... doesn't really matter for dragon fighting. They will hit me regardless.

Stats: 28 point buy
Strength 16 (+3)
Dexterity 10
Constitution 18 (+4)
Int Wis and Cha all at 8.


Basic setup, 84% chance to win initiative (dragons get no init bonus)

Charge dragon first round, make attack.

Second round, use boots of speed and make 4 attacks.
Third round, four attacks again
Fourth round, four attacks again
Good chance of being dead by the time the fifth round comes by. But same 4 attacks repeated every round.


The highest AC any dragon has is 42, and I have a +36 to confirm critical hits from my 9 stacks of Power Critical. Mixed with my lowest attack bonus of +5, and a minimum confirm roll of 1, I can always confirm my critical hits against any dragon. The only trick is getting the natural 20 that my vorpal whip needs. (The ruling I usually see used is that whoever rolls the dice wins ties. Roll to attack, ties in favor of attacker. Roll a saving throw, tie in favor of defender)



Generally I'm using dragons as an example, because the Great Wyrms are the toughest creatures I've found (that still die with a chopped off head).

And in case you were wondering about the level 1 skeleton. Undead do not need their head, and whips deal non-lethal damage, which undead are immune to.


I'm interested if anyone can find a way to help this guy survive a few extra rounds to get more attacks in, or just a way to get more attacks in.
I currently need no bonus to attack, since I'm only interested in the natural 20, and I'm already guaranteed to confirm.
If there is some way to MAKE a natural 20 happen, that would be good.
Aside from the vorpal whip, I have 15,699gp left over.

[Verditude]

Cleric spell Surge of Fortune is what you want. At any point in its duration you can discharge it to make your next roll count as a nat 20.

Edit: Instead of power critical, take a level of ranger and the vile feat murderous intent. You automatically confirm crits against favored enemies. Have to be evil though, and have either favored enemy: dragons or the arcane hunter ACF.

[Arkusus]

Cleric spell Surge of Fortune is what you want. At any point in its duration you can discharge it to make your next roll count as a nat 20.

You my good man, are a godsend.

Requires a second party member though, but the results would be positively glorious. 2 man super-dragonslaying team!

[Waker]

Ugh, I know you are trying to be silly with it, but it seems a shame to not include levels of Lasher from Sword and Fist into the build. Get extra attacks and bonus feats without meeting requirements is quite handy.

[Snowbluff]

A whip dagger would help you out against undead.

[Arkusus]

Edit: Instead of power critical, take a level of ranger and the vile feat murderous intent. You automatically confirm crits against favored enemies. Have to be evil though, and have either favored enemy: dragons or the arcane hunter ACF.

Oh my word...

With that, one level of ranger, nine levels of (evil)cleric to cast Surge of Fortune, and I dunno... two more fighter levels for the feats, why not...

I could solo the dragons anyway! One-shot guaranteed!



My oh my, thank you

[Snowbluff]

You could be a Cleric with levels in PrC Ranger. :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

And in the meantime, Clerics are great against Undead anyway. So all the better for you!

[Kuulvheysoon]

A Vanilla whip doesn't work for this - you'll either have to blow a feat for a whip dagger or find a whip that deals lethal damage (there's 2 in the MIC that I can think of off the top of my head) because of this line:
It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher.Dragons definitely have a Natural Armor bonus of +3 or higher, even after they cast scintillating scales.

[Fouredged Sword]

Doesn't matter, the whip is vaporal. You don't need to do damage. It just kills them.

[brujon]

Too bad you didn't went with a bow (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/hunters-mercy--1389/)...

[Kuulvheysoon]

Doesn't matter, the whip is vaporal. You don't need to do damage. It just kills them.

Well I'll be damned - there's no caveat that it must inflict damage. Nice loophole.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am thinking the best build will be a human ranger 5 / chameleon 10 using an vaporal whip.

You get access to all the nice ranger spells and to surge of fortune all in one spell list.

If you can get aptitude on the whip, you are doubly cool, as you can use hunter's mercy to augment the whip, and pair it with wraithstrike.

[The Sauceror]

You could get them with the aptitude special ability, you could try going for the feat Lightning Mace. Its prereqs are Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus (light mace), so you'd have to change your build, but it gives you an extra attack every time you roll a crit. It might be worth looking into.

[Sitzkrieg]

Hate to be the spoilsport, but Vorpal doesn't say anything about severing heads on successful critical hits.


This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body.

You have to roll a nat 20 specifically - it doesn't matter what the critical threat range is. So confirming a crit on a nat 19 doesn't sever the head, it just criticals.

[Cozod]

Hate to be the spoilsport, but Vorpal doesn't say anything about severing heads on successful critical hits.



You have to roll a nat 20 specifically - it doesn't matter what the critical threat range is. So confirming a crit on a nat 19 doesn't sever the head, it just criticals.

The wording in Surge of Fortune explicitly states that it counts as a natural 20. So it would trigger vorpal, assuming the confirmation roll succeeds.

[Fouredged Sword]

I once had an assassin character who had a single vaporal serpent's tongue arrow and a scroll of surge of fortune.

The look on the DM's face when I cut the head off the running away BBEG from 1000ft away was priceless.

[Sitzkrieg]

The wording in Surge of Fortune explicitly states that it counts as a natural 20. So it would trigger vorpal, assuming the confirmation roll succeeds.

Oh, that's true. I mistook Power Crit with Improved Crit, I thought the OP was just trying to fish for criticals. But there's still a problem with Power Crit, as I'm pretty sure you can't take it multiple times for the same weapon?

[Arkusus]

Oh, that's true. I mistook Power Crit with Improved Crit, I thought the OP was just trying to fish for criticals. But there's still a problem with Power Crit, as I'm pretty sure you can't take it multiple times for the same weapon?

Yeah, that's what I thought the first time I read it, but something looked fishy so I read it over again a few times.


You can gain Power Critical multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it may be with a different weapon or the same weapon. If you take it with the same weapon, the effects of the feats stack.

So yeah... This feat is amazing for crit confirming. I used to have Warblade in my build, but stacking levels of fighter just added 4 every two levels, instead of UP TO 4 if I poured my stats into Int and took 3 levels in Warblade.

But yeah, there's not much use for the Lightning Mace feat with Vorpal Whips.
I'm not really sure how you'd get around the whole 'they have to be maces' catch, but it's D&D, so I'm sure there's some way.

Mostly, Lightning Mace doesn't seem that great when you only get it 5% of the time. That being said, it does play to the whip's advantage with it's 15 foot reach for being able to pick on a second target if you got lucky with the first. But the crown rule of D&D as I say is, "The question isn't if you CAN do it, the question is if there's a way you could do it BETTER."

[erok0809]

But yeah, there's not much use for the Lightning Mace feat with Vorpal Whips.
I'm not really sure how you'd get around the whole 'they have to be maces' catch, but it's D&D, so I'm sure there's some way.

Aptitude weapons should work for that, I think. It's another +1 though, which could be an issue if you don't have the money or access to weapons that count as +6.

[Sitzkrieg]

Wow, didn't know that before. That's pretty impressive. While checking this out, also noticed people talking about the Flesh Ring of Scorn, which automatically confirms critical threats 3/day. Might want to look into that too.

[Arkusus]

Alright, so I've gone ahead and done a work-over of the Vorpal Whip build.

Honestly, I'm not even going to include the full build here, because it's a cleric. It's a evil cleric who spent one level in Ranger, and is otherwise a cleric. What I'm going to include is a minimum report, with a few optimizations.

Given the way this build has changed, it's important to remember a key fact... My attack bonus is completely irrelevant.

Race: Aasimir (turned evil), for the +2 Wisdom and for being an outsider.

Stats
Str: 8
Dex: 10
Con: 16
Int: 8
Wis: 20 (22 with Periapt of Wisdom)
Cha: 10

Feats required: This build does not rely on feats. I reccomend using feats that improve initiative, as getting the drop on enemies will be very helpful.


Classes:
Evil Cleric (9)

You will need to be at least level 12 to have the starting gold for the vorpal whip, but if you can get one at level 10, you can still make this work.

Evil Cleric (11) since we're waiting for the starting gold though. (and +1 LA makes this effectively level 12 for us)

Equipment:
+1 Vorpal Whip
+2 Periapt of Wisdom
Flesh Ring of Scorn
Basic armors




Playstyle: You have five casts of Surge of Fortune. Ideally you will know when you are about to get into the fight that needs the bonus, thus potentially saving you one round with a very angry dragon.

So, when outside the big bad dragon's room, cast Surge of Fortune, pop open the door and charge up. Use your natural 20 to get a critical hit on the dragon, and since the dragon is not an outsider, Flesh Ring of Scorn makes it an auto-hit. Make sure to get your new dragon head mounted!

It's hard to really call this build a 'silly' build now, because you're a level 11 cleric... and you can auto-decapitate any non-outsider for the cost of a level 5 spell.

Really the only way to make this build 'silly' is through self-sabotage now.

On that point, you could totally swap out the whip for something like a longsword, and pick up melee stats so you're still competent against level-appropriate enemies. However, the whip does allow you some nice party-combat tactics, since you can attack from the back row. (15 foot reach is amazing) And as we've covered... the whip doesn't require any melee stats to function.

[Arkusus]

Wow, didn't know that before. That's pretty impressive. While checking this out, also noticed people talking about the Flesh Ring of Scorn, which automatically confirms critical threats 3/day. Might want to look into that too.

I dunno if there's another version of it, but the flesh ring of scorn from the book of vile darkness only helps outsiders fighting non-outsiders. Also, there's no limit of 3/day

Flesh Ring of Scorn: When this ring is pierced into the flesh of an evil outsider, it allows the outsider to automatically score a critical hit against a nonoutsider whenever the threat of a critical hit is indicated.

Now, if I could get an evil outsider race type, then the ring would be amazing (and affordable even!) So, with a Tiefling only having an LA of +1, I could be an evil tiefling, and get auto-crits-checks on EVERY NON-OUTSIDER ON THE PLANE.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I dunno if there's another version of it, but the flesh ring of scorn from the book of vile darkness only helps outsiders fighting non-outsiders. Also, there's no limit of 3/day


Now, if I could get an evil outsider race type, then the ring would be amazing (and affordable even!) So, with a Tiefling only having an LA of +1, I could be an evil tiefling, and get auto-crits-checks on EVERY NON-OUTSIDER ON THE PLANE.

Unfortunately, you must use the updated version of an item... so the BoVD version is no longer legal.

Note how it doesn't specify an Outsider with the Evil subtype,though, only an Evil Outsider.

A neater choice of race would be a Zenythri (MM2) - racial stats of +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. They're Lawful-touched planetouched.

[Arkusus]

Unfortunately, you must use the updated version of an item... so the BoVD version is no longer legal.

Note how it doesn't specify an Outsider with the Evil subtype,though, only an Evil Outsider.

A neater choice of race would be a Zenythri (MM2) - racial stats of +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. They're Lawful-touched planetouched.

Interesting... Where do they have the updated Flesh Ring of Scorn?
(And how do I know if other items have been updated?)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Interesting... Where do they have the updated Flesh Ring of Scorn?
(And how do I know if other items have been updated?)

The Magic Item Compendium, page 100. It was mentioned upthread, and it now automatically confirms a critical hit three times per day (at the cost of a bit of damage to yourself, amount varies by it's (natural) threat range).

[Arkusus]

Unfortunately, you must use the updated version of an item... so the BoVD version is no longer legal.

Note how it doesn't specify an Outsider with the Evil subtype,though, only an Evil Outsider.

A neater choice of race would be a Zenythri (MM2) - racial stats of +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. They're Lawful-touched planetouched.

Actually, looking in the magic item compendium it looks like you don't need to be an outsider anymore, evil or not. But the extra damage is to you

[Grayson01]

Better Lucky Then Good (CS) is another way to get a Nat 20 once a day when you roll a nat 1. gives your a 1/10 chance of getting a Nat 20 now instead of 1/20.