[PF] Can a Battle Oracle be just as good or better than a Fighter?

[ranger557]

Hi all, I am making a battle oracle and needed some advice about feats and spells for this character. His main role is frontline with secondary on support spells because we have a dwarf cleric for full support. So here is what I have. Thanks for any advice. This character has already been through many game sessions. However, my dm allowed me to change some things on him.

Human Oracle 15 (battle)
Str: 26 (racial +2, +3 level bump, +1 quest bonus, +4 Enh.)
Dex: 14
Con: 18 (+4 Enh.)
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 (+4 Enh.)

Weapon: +3 Holy Greatsword +24/+19 2d6+15 17-20/x2

What other feats should I get and should I change some feats here?

Feats: Improved Initiative(Human), Toughness, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Extra Revelation(War sight), Extra Revelation(Weapon Mastery) , Extend Spell, Great Fortitude,

[B]What other revelations should I get?

Revelations: War Sight, Weapon Mastery(greatsword), Skill at Arms, Surprising Charge, Battlefield Clarity, and Stone skin.

What spells should I acquire for this type of character? besides the battle spells which are very few. Levels 1 - 7? Here are the spells I have already.

Level 0: Create water, detect magic, light, purify food and drink, stabilize, read magic, mending, guidance, and spark.
Level 1: Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Obscuring Mist, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, and Bless.
Level 2: Lesser Restoration, Grace, Instant Armor, Align Weapon, Fog Cloud, Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, and Silence
Level 3: Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Invisibility Purge, Magic Vestment, Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, and Magic Circle against evil
Level 4: Blessing of Fervor, Wall of Fire, Cure Critical Wounds, Freedom of Movement, Restoration, and Divine Power
Level 5: Righteous Might, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Communal Air Walk, and Communal Spell Immunity
Level 6: Mass bull's strength, Heal, Eaglesoul, and Geniekind.
Level 7: Control Weather

As well I have about 65k gp for treasure and I am not sure what I should buy for a warrior caster?

[PowerToTheMax]

Have you checked out this guide?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WdtrZCESRmVfljXY196wMrMLTnS8Uzk4DEk3oQdVZok/edit?pli=1?

Apart from that: If you dip 2 lvls of Paladin you get a lot of nice gimmicks - nice saving throws (+7 +4 +7, very nice for a frontline fighter!!!), Lay on Hands, detect evil (free sonar), D10 hit dice, full BAB, weapon proficency for free (essentially a free revelation) and it fits the frontline holy fighter idea- all you miss out on is spell progression.

[TroubleBrewing]

Spell progression is better than any possible benefit Paladin levels could offer you. Magic > mundane, and it always will be in 3.5.

[PowerToTheMax]

If you are so absolute you should max Cha. I disagree with the previous post, btw. There are several areas to be covered by the group, and if you guys already have a Cleric, it might be worth looking into some more resilience.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Oracles are the newest members of team CODzilla (Cleric-Oracle-Druid-zilla; formerly CoDzilla, Cleric-or-Druid-zilla, in 3E), so of course they can be as good if not better than a fighter.

You even share the cleric spell list, so it's as simple as just using the same combat buffs he does. Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Blessing of Fervor...

What books are available?

You might want a race with +Str/Cha instead of human; if you do stick with human consider getting the Focused Study variant racial feature, and Racial Emulation (Half-Elf) and Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline) feats. It won't help you in melee, but it will allow you to use the Paragon Surge spell to pull nearly any spell in the entire game out of your butt when needed, which is pretty potent (and the main reason to be a Half-Elf or race that can racially emulate being a Half-Elf, like Human).

For curses, consider Dual-Cursed oracle. Pick Deaf and Wolf-scarred face (and choosing the latter as the non-advancing one). Because of deaf's benefits/penalties, there's no actual downside to wolf-scarred (other than being ugly), so you just get a free bite attack. And the archetype itself gives you the option for Misfortune, which is simply one of the best revelations in the game, because it can be used both to mess up enemies AND to help allies and yourself. Losing Enlarge Person as a spell known hurts, but it's a cheap wand (only DC use magic device) or potion.

Battle has a bunch of good revelations. I like War Sight (going first is winning) and Skill at Arms early on. Surprising Charge and Weapon Mastery are worth having by mid levels, and later on Battlefield Clarity (put off for later both because 1/day isn't so hot and because you'll actually encounter way more insta-jib special attacks at later levels) and Iron Skin are great to have. I don't like Maneuver Mastery; it takes too long to be worth more than a feat, and by then combat maneuvers will be impossibly hard to land on monsters' CMD scores.

If you have Furious Focus and are level 15, you should have Dreadful Carnage. FF is actually a really horrible feat; the only reason *to* take it is Dreadful Carnage. A free area demoralize every time you do what you do (kill people) is pretty sweet. Also, level 15 is the level Spell Perfection is available. It is honestly probably the most powerful feat in all of Pathfinder (well, aside from Leadership), only not much considered because...not many actually reach level 15. The "optimal" use is on your favorite offensive spell (preferably one to use Dazing Spell on) to get the metamagic reduction *and* doubled numbers goodness. But, even just taking it on a buff spell like Divine Power so that you can cast it quickened for free is very nice. Heck, you might even be able to take the Magical Lineage trait on the Heal spell and then use Spell Perfection to cast quickened Heals.
Not sure if that would actually work. Heal is level 6, quicken is +4, Spell Perfection doesn't let you boost the effective level above 9. The trait would make metamagic feats applied to Heal cost 1 less level adjustment...

[Karoht]

1-Do not dip Paladin. No point. And it disqualifies you for an awesome spell. Bestow Grace of the Champion. It's a Paladin spell, one that you should try to have a Scroll of at all times. Minimum CL is 10 (if you take it as a Paladin Scroll, Cleric Scrolls will cost more but have a min CL of 14), the spell gives you half the CL in Paladin Levels. This gives you Charisma to saves, Smite Evil (Charisma to Hit and AC, Paladin Level to Damage) once per casting, and Lay on Hands (once), I think it gives you one other thing once per casting as well. AND all the Paladin Immunities. Downside? You have to be Lawful Good to be a target of the spell.

1a-If you don't want to be Lawful Good and instead want to be any other kind of good, get scrolls or even a wand of Bestow Grace. Charisma to Saves. A wand won't cost you too much as it is a 2nd level spell, and 50 uses will really last you a while. Only works on Good targets.

2-Toppling Spell
A worthwhile Metamagic Feat for a Oracle.
Spiritual Weapon + Spiritual Ally + Toppling Spell = More trip attack attempts per round than a Trip Specialized Fighter. Grats, with one metamagic feat you are already 1 up on a Fighter. Moving the Weapon/Ally is a Move/Swift action respectively, in which they only get 1 attack, after that they stay on the target and get the same number of attacks you do. And they deal force damage. So your attacks (x2 if you have both out) in force damage and trip attempts.
Also, you still get your Standard Action to do other things like cast spells or smack something. Lockdown + Damage at no cost to you.
Sadly, this does not benefit from Improved Trip or any other feats.
And any Oracle can do this, they just need the feat and the two spells.
This trick comes online at 4th Level, and while it will become harder to trip things, the number of attempts should make up for it eventually, and the damage makes it not a waste of effort if it fails.

3-Animal Companion
Nature Mystery Oracles get an Animal Companion. Your level counts as your effective Druid Level. AND it can be a mount. Animal Companion is roughly equal to a Fighter until you hit level 10 or so. Combo that with the above trick and you are rolling.

3a-Summons
If you are going to take an Animal Companion, take a few of the Summon Monster spells, if for no other reason than to provide your Animal Companion (or yourself) a flanking buddy. That free damage and hit adds up fast. And if you do succeed in knocking an enemy prone with your Toppling Spell combo, summons and companions can now take advantage of the Prone state.

4-Channel Smite
If you take a Mystery which grants Channel (I think only the Life Mystery will work), Channel Smite is pretty awesome. If you have a Mystery that also grants some kind of Touch Attack ability, take the Conductive Weapon Enchant on your weapon. It allows you, at no action cost, to apply that touch attack type automatically when you deal damage, for the cost of 2 uses per day. So in theory, one could do a Channel Smite for Xd6 + the Touch Attack effect + Weapon Damage, and if you were Smiting with Bestow Grace of Champion, bipass DR, add your Charisma to Hit and effective Paladin Level to Damage. If you set it up right, this makes for one heck of a lethal charge. If you take that Animal Companion/Mount and take some of the mounted combat/charge feats, that is some sick damage right there.

4a-Channel Damage
If you want to channel both negative and positive damage with Channeling, take a Neutral Good alignment (so you can still benefit from Bestow Grace) and take the feat at level one, Versatile Channeler. If you were going to play a Life Mystery Oracle, this feat alone makes them quite good. It gives you a handy AoE damage/healing capability, and makes Channel Smite something much more flexible, especially in the early levels. Elemental Channel feat is worth taking as well, especially if you take Summon Monster spells and want to heal Elementals if you summon them. Or hurt enemy elementals all the same. Just be sure to take Selective Channel.

5-Buff Spells-A short list. Spoilered for length.

Divine Power/Divine Favor-Critical
Enlarge Person-Reach is awesome, extra Strength is awesome.
Weapon of Awe-Sacred Bonus to Weapon Damage, stacks with other buffs like Bard Music. Auto-Shaken on a crit (no save, no spell resist) is handy. Due to the lack of save, this is more wand material, not worth taking up a spell known slot.
Blessing of Fervor-If someone else already has Haste up, this is awesome.
Blessing of Courage and Life-A handy self-heal/emergency heal, and the buff VS Fear and Death effects is important. More wand material though.
Protection from Chaos/Law/Evil/Good-Often overlooked but very efficient buff for a 1st level spell. And the 2nd level version, Communal Protection from X is worth while too.
Archon's Aura-Penalizing enemy saves, attack rolls and AC? What's not to love. Combo's really well with Sanctuary.
Channel Vigor-Flexible buff spell, has 4 potential uses. Not bad for a 3rd level spell.
Weapon Wand-Stick a wand of choice into your weapon. Can be handy. Not entirely recommended, but if you want some extra damage and have a spare wand or two that no one is using, go for it. Color Spray is a very economical choice, Acid Arrow is very reliable. You can also just buy a wand of Weapon Wand at your leisure, not really worth a spell slot.
Invisibility Purge-Critical. Far better than See Invisibility.
Wrathful Mantle-Bonus on Saves, and an on demand force damage effect.
Wind Wall-Shut down all kinds of ranged attacks.
Death Ward-Shut down ALL negative energy damage.
Freedom of Movement-For obvious reasons. Immune to grapples and lots of other movement impairments.
Spell Immunity-An excellent buff. Pick a handful of spells that are affected by spell resistance, you are now immune to them, completely.
Dispel Chaos/Law/Evil/Good-Pretty comprehensive buff against those things. Totally worth it.
Fickle Winds-Wind Wall on roids!


6-Offensive Spells-Spoilered for length.

Spit Venom-No save blinded, and poison the target. Immunity to poison blocks it. Druids get it a spell level earlier than you. Consider a wand as opposed to a slot.
Forceful Strike-Force Damage and Bullrush. Because you are making a weapon strike at the same time, I'm reasonably sure it benefits from Improved Bullrush if you have it. It adds a bonus to the CMB equal to your caster level. So you would get your Strength, your BAB, and your Level to combo up on this. Also combo's with Toppling spell, but for the cost I wouldn't bother.
Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Ally-For reasons already stated.
Spear of Purity-Damage and Blind
Sound Burst-Damage and Stun, AoE
Flame Strike-Half Fire, Half unresistable. Enjoy. It's the Cleric version of Fireball.
Terrible Remorse-Suck, or suck less. Fun spell.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Yes, Oracles can be better than fighters. With Paragon Surge they're the most powerful class in the game. Without it, they're just as strong if not stronger than clerics at being a fighter.

Edit: Also guys he no longer needs to take a two leve dip of Paladin. Now he is a high enough level to know the spell (if he's lawful good) Bestow Grace of the Champion.

[Karoht]

Yeah, Oracle with Paragon Surge. It's awesome.
Take Expanded Arcana as your feat from Paragon Surge. Add another spell or two to your list of spells known whenever you want.

Take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and get a familiar. Awesome.
Paragon Surge to get Improved Eldritch Heritage. Add 1-3 spells known to your list from the Sorc/Wiz list.

Enjoy your infinite knowledge of Cleric/Oracle and Sorc/Wiz casting. As a standard action. For the cost of a 3rd level spell.

In addition to being an uber Oracle-zilla.
Cheers.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, Oracle with Paragon Surge. It's awesome.
Take Expanded Arcana as your feat from Paragon Surge. Add another spell or two to your list of spells known whenever you want.

Take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and get a familiar. Awesome.
Paragon Surge to get Improved Eldritch Heritage. Add 1-3 spells known to your list from the Sorc/Wiz list.

Enjoy your infinite knowledge of Cleric/Oracle and Sorc/Wiz casting. As a standard action. For the cost of a 3rd level spell.

In addition to being an uber Oracle-zilla.
Cheers.

Well, he's level 15. He could take Spell Perfection on Paragon Surge to quicken it for free, too. And lesser metamagic rods of quicken are quite affordable, too. Or he could just quicken it the regular way and pay the 7th level slot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you're actually under-selling how good it is. :smallbiggrin:

[grarrrg]

3-Animal Companion
Nature Mystery Oracles get an Animal Companion. Your level counts as your effective Druid Level. AND it can be a mount. Animal Companion is roughly equal to a Fighter until you hit level 10 or so. Combo that with the above trick and you are rolling.

If you swing Elf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/elf), you can use the Alt. Favored Class ability to get +1/2 level to any revelation.
So a level 15 Oracle, could effectively have a level 22.5 Mount.
(note: there is probably a better race that can get the same bonus, but it's a pain to dig through all of them)


4a-Channel Damage
If you want to channel both negative and positive damage with Channeling, take a Neutral Good alignment (so you can still benefit from Bestow Grace) and take the feat at level one, Versatile Channeler.

This one does not work.
Versatile Channeler (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/ultimateMagicFeats.html) has strict limits on who qualifies, and Oracles (of any kind) do not qualify.

[Spuddles]

Kind of trivial, but get a pearl of power 4 for your cleric and use that on your greatsword instead of getting +2 on it. +1 holy costs 18k, +3 holy costs 50k. Bead of karma 4 costs 16k. You save 16k, which can be +4 to another stat.

[KutuluKultist]

At level 15, why even try to out melee a fighter? By that level you're in a world there many battles are solved in one round by a compentent tier 1 caster...

Secondly, with DMM and Persistent Spell out of the picture and the big divine self-buffs nerfed, you will most likely not out melee a well build fighter anyway. You will have to spend your first action to get to his level. An action that could have summoned murderous meat bags, added a wisely placed wall to the battlefield or made a big bad enemy harmless or even take him out of the fight.

CoDzilla is not what it used to be.

[ranger557]

Thanks guys for the inputs. However, I wrote the thread real early and forgot to mention things. I am already lvl 15 through several game sessions. However, my 15, 13, and 11 feat I didn't choose and my dm is ok with me choosing them all late. Also I could swap some of my spells from the levels that an oracle can swap there spells. I'll edit the top with more information later when I get home. Also I can't be a paladin or get that awesome spell for paladin abilities because I'm neutral good :/. Also we can only use core races....so that's why I picked human, but other then that all books are available.

[StreamOfTheSky]

At level 15, why even try to out melee a fighter? By that level you're in a world there many battles are solved in one round by a compentent tier 1 caster...

Because sometimes nothing is better than the visceral thrill of bloodying something to death with a stick.


Secondly, with DMM and Persistent Spell out of the picture

DMM and Persist are gone. You know what? So are EVERY OTHER CLASS's favorite toys from 3E. Oh well. Cleric also gained many new awesome toys. Like easily finding a +2 wisdom race, even in core only. Or free martial/exotic proficiency with deity favored weapon. Or domains being massively buffed. Or the aforementioned Spell Perfection. Or Samsaran's Mystic Past Life to raid other class spell lists. Or Divine Interference to trade 1st level spell slots and immediate actions for critical hit negations.
At least, unlike rogue and monk, Cleric didn't really get a nerf and was already tier 1 anyway. On that note...


and the big divine self-buffs nerfed, you will most likely not out melee a well build fighter anyway.

NO! Absolutely false! Stop it! I wish people would stop propagating this crap. Divine Favor is the same. Righteous Might is basically the same (+2 more Con, -2 less dex, better DR, all else is the same). Divine Power is different, but definitely not worse. In fact, unless you're pulling Haste in most/all encounters, its outright better now!
The rumors of melee cleric's demise have been greatly exaggerated.


You will have to spend your first action to get to his level. An action that could have summoned murderous meat bags, added a wisely placed wall to the battlefield or made a big bad enemy harmless or even take him out of the fight.

Yes, we get it, casters are powerful. Being a big stupid fighter isn't their ultimate potential. OP wants to melee though, so whatever. And again, you can cut down the buffing time w/ Quicken Spell and possibly Spell Perfection or a rod of quicken spell.


CoDzilla is not what it used to be.

Yes, it is. Well, the druid half of CoDzilla actually did take some hefty nerfing, but even that wasn't as bad as many claim.

[navar100]

Furious Focus is not horrible. It helps 3/4 BAB classes use Power Attack effectively. Even though it's just for the first attack sometimes you're only getting one attack anyway, and even on a full attack because you're Power Attacking your other attacks are much less likely to hit (It's great when they do!), but it's still nice to get that first attack and hit in with no penalty.

The spell you want is Grace, 2nd level, swift action to cast: for the rest of your turn you do not provoke an attack of opportunity for moving. As a spontaneous caster, you can cast it whenever you need to for easy mobility around the battlefield.

Blessing of Fervor is a better spell than Divine Power for the spell slot. It's more versatile and everyone in the party will love you. Let Righteous Might be your personal combat buff spell and cast Divine Favor for the luck bonus to hit and damage.

Quicken Spell might be of some use, depending on what 1st and 2nd level spells you choose.

[Crasical]

Racial Emulation (Half-Elf)

What feat is this? I can't find it on the SRD.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I think he meant racial heritage.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, I did.

[Spuddles]

You might want to consider samsaran as a race. They can get spells from other divine lists on theirs. There was a thread about it a littlw while ago. It's definitely OP when you go splat diving for paladin & inquisitor spells.

[Karoht]

Well, he's level 15. He could take Spell Perfection on Paragon Surge to quicken it for free, too. And lesser metamagic rods of quicken are quite affordable, too. Or he could just quicken it the regular way and pay the 7th level slot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you're actually under-selling how good it is. :smallbiggrin:
Under selling it, and it still sounds awesome.

Never thought of Spell Perfection and Paragon Surge. Nice!
Need 3 Metamagic feats for Spell Perfection?
Toppling Spell, Quicken Spell, pick one more. Enlarge Spell is handy, Bouncing Spell is a nice contingency, Reach Spell is iffy but useful.

[Hylas]

Under selling it, and it still sounds awesome.

Never thought of Spell Perfection and Paragon Surge. Nice!
Need 3 Metamagic feats for Spell Perfection?
Toppling Spell, Quicken Spell, pick one more. Enlarge Spell is handy, Bouncing Spell is a nice contingency, Reach Spell is iffy but useful.

Dazing spell, extend spell.

[Karoht]

I've often found Dazing Spell to be difficult to get use out of. Personally I prefer Dazing on a rod rather than an actual metamagic feat. But I agree, solid choice.
6+ attacks between Spiritual Weapon and Ally, each one triggering a trip attempt and a Daze attempt. At no action cost to you. Fun times. A bit expensive to cast, but fun.
Dazing is also fun if you are a brand of Oracle who gets to add Geyser to their list. I'm sure there is a domain that picks that up somewhere or other. Dangerous to your allies though.

[ranger557]

I posted the things I forgot to add a while ago. Because this character is already made but I can change some things on him. Feats, revelations, and spells.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Ew Great Fortitude.

Anyway, here are some other feats you will want to look at. If you want to be cheesy, you could try to get the stuff to take advantage of paragon surge, but I wouldn't recommend doing that at this point.

*Quicken Spell* (Seriously, every caster should have this at high levels)

There are a couple of feats based of Power Attack that look moderately useful. Dazing Assault, Bloody Assault.

Intimidating Prowess + Dreadful Carnage or Cornugon Smash

[Karoht]

OOOOH!
Use Paragon Surge to get any feat you qualify for right?
Swift Action = Spell Perfection Paragon Surge [with Quicken Spell] -> Spell Perfection [Insert Spell on your List]
Standard Action = Spell Perfection [Insert Spell on your List] with Metamagic Feat of choice for free.

Spending a 3rd level slot to get something as expensive as Dazing Spell? Not a bad trade off at all.

[ranger557]

Ew Great Fortitude.

Anyway, here are some other feats you will want to look at. If you want to be cheesy, you could try to get the stuff to take advantage of paragon surge, but I wouldn't recommend doing that at this point.

*Quicken Spell* (Seriously, every caster should have this at high levels)

There are a couple of feats based of Power Attack that look moderately useful. Dazing Assault, Bloody Assault.

Intimidating Prowess + Dreadful Carnage or Cornugon Smash

I forgot to add that, but I do already have Great Fortitude. Also yeah I don't think I have enough feats for that paragon surge....level 15, 17, and 19 lol. I was thinking quicken spell and also Spell Perfection, but I am not sure what spells would be really help for Spell Perfection compared to an arcane caster. Also I didn't go the intimidate route now since I am level 15...and intimidate wouldn't be so helpful against high level challenges, right?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Unlike in 3.5 where the DC against intimidate was (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear), in Pathfinder, it's 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. It's a straight DC. There is no mention of it being a fear effect, so in theory it could even work (talk to your DM) on undead or other sentient "mindless" creatures that would have been immune to it.

You should be able to easily get your modifier (15 ranks + Str + Cha) to 27. The DC to intimidate a CR 15 Adult Gold Dragon is 33 (10+18 hd+5 wis). So yeah, if you give yourself some free attempts, it will still be pretty effective.

[avr]

If your alignment is LG, bestow grace of the champion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-grace-of-the-champion) is an obvious choice. You're missing a couple of level 7 spells at present. Holy word or some other alignment-appropriate equivalent would be good. Greater Scrying may not improve your fighting abilities, but it's great to have.

[Karoht]

I forgot to add that, but I do already have Great Fortitude. Also yeah I don't think I have enough feats for that paragon surge....level 15, 17, and 19 lol. I was thinking quicken spell and also Spell Perfection, but I am not sure what spells would be really help for Spell Perfection compared to an arcane caster. Also I didn't go the intimidate route now since I am level 15...and intimidate wouldn't be so helpful against high level challenges, right?
Did you take Toppling Spell for Spiritual Weapon/Spiritual Ally trip shenanigans?

Paragon Surge is a 3rd level spell. Not a feat. It GIVES you a feat for 15 minutes. That feat can be Expanded Arcana (which gives you 1 extra spell known at your highest spell level, or any two spells known below your highest level) to get access to a spell you need but don't have, right away.
That feat can also be Spell Perfection [Pick a Spell on your existing list], so long as you know 3 metamagic feats.
For the 3 Metamagic feats, I suggest Topple, Extend, and Quicken.

[CigarPete]

Whatever you decide to do, Quicken spell should be part of it. I play a Battle Oracle right now, and the reality is that you have a single round to buff most of the time. Quicken ensures that you can get two spells off as well as throw on a couple of additional lower level buffs after entering melee without losing iterative attacks.

[ranger557]

Sadly I can't take Bestow of the Champion because I am NG. Also i need several feats to accomplish that paragon surge spell route. Either case i just feel that the battle oracle doesn't really have a niche in the party because we already have a fighter and a cleric. Therefore, i feel i can't really contribute with my spells or my fighting capabilities. So....i feel stuck :smallfrown:

[avr]

While I think the Paragon Surge trick is the definition of broken, it takes just one feat. Racial Heritage (half-elf). Not multiple feats unless you want to exploit the sorc/wiz list as well.

I'm kind of surprised that the fighter is a better fighter than your oracle. Is it some equipment that the fighter has and you don't, or bonuses from DM pity - I saw you have a +1 STR bonus from a quest - or is it some feat combo or something?

BTW, you must be close to level 16 by now. 8th level spells include stuff like Divine Vessel.

[Karoht]

8th Level = Divine Vessel = Hulk out and crush your enemies.
7th Level = Bestow Grace of Champion = Get half your caster level in Paladin levels, right now. Smite, Lay on Hands, all kinds of goodies to kick teeth in with.

As for the Spiritual Weapon/Ally + Toppling Spell combo I mentioned before, I recently put it to the test. In instances where you can trip enemies (anything that doesn't fly, or is otherwise immune to trip such as oozes), Spiritual Weapon was doing a phenominal job of keeping something on the ground, while slowly beating the snot out of it. With support from the Oracle, most things dropped pretty quickly.
Round 1: Cast Spiritual Weapon on Target X. Successfully trip X. Oracle spends move action to base the prone target.
Round 2: Oracle proceeds to full-attack X while X is prone. Spiritual Weapon also smashes X while X is prone. SW gets multiple attacks.
Round 3: Spiritual Weapon gets multiple attacks, keeps X prone, Oracle full-attacks. If the thing isn't dead, something is wrong.
Round 4: The trip focused fighter proceeds to cry in a corner, and has been doing so since round 1.


The fighter in your party is probably "out-performing" currently due to buffs, and your action economy being spent on buffing him or yourself. Get a rod of Extend Spell, and pre-buff yourself before a fight starts, preferably with some minutes/level type buffs.

Also, remember that the fighter out damaging someone is largely meaningless, when you consider that effects like battlefield control aren't numerically quantifiable in all cases. Also, your buffs on the fighter are part of those numbers that he is producing.