The last of Malack....

[Tircey]

Been thinking, and a few things came to me tired little brain.

1) Malack is dead killed by Nale. (Giant verified that part)
2) Seems Tarquin might have very much sent them along together to sort out their issues where he wouldn't have to take sides. (no proof but this is tarquin we're talking about, not beyond reason by any stretch)
3) In a previous comic he mentioned having a True Ressurection spell cast on Nale should Malack kill him (forget which, I'm sure someone knows)

Now...

Unless Tarquin ( and the other members of their group) actually want Malack to stay dead, I think it would be a large plot hole for them not to simply bring him back. Tarquin obviously has the money and the connections to afford top tier magic, seems to have loyaly to Malack (and we have no idea about the rest of the group) He was an important member, a vast help to tarquin controlling the empire and someone Tarquin coiuld trust.

What reason would Tarquin have for not simply using magic to bring back Malack?

Now unless I'm missing something about house rules, Wish and Miracle could do it, and True Ressurection would least bring him back as living Malack.

Am I overlooking something here? Just would seem really really odd if Tarquin simply didn't bring Malack back as soon as he was able to.

[KillianHawkeye]

Tarquin did not ever mention having a True Ressurection spell ready for Nale. You are remembering wrong. Not only that, the Giant has specifically mentioned in the past that True Ressurection (and ressurections in general) are one of the biggest cop outs in D&D and he would like to avoid using them whenever possible.

[Grey Watcher]

Been thinking, and a few things came to me tired little brain.

1) Malack is dead killed by Nale. (Giant verified that part)
2) Seems Tarquin might have very much sent them along together to sort out their issues where he wouldn't have to take sides. (no proof but this is tarquin we're talking about, not beyond reason by any stretch)
3) In a previous comic he mentioned having a True Ressurection spell cast on Nale should Malack kill him (forget which, I'm sure someone knows)

Now...

Unless Tarquin ( and the other members of their group) actually want Malack to stay dead, I think it would be a large plot hole for them not to simply bring him back. Tarquin obviously has the money and the connections to afford top tier magic, seems to have loyaly to Malack (and we have no idea about the rest of the group) He was an important member, a vast help to tarquin controlling the empire and someone Tarquin coiuld trust.

What reason would Tarquin have for not simply using magic to bring back Malack?

Now unless I'm missing something about house rules, Wish and Miracle could do it, and True Ressurection would least bring him back as living Malack.

Am I overlooking something here? Just would seem really really odd if Tarquin simply didn't bring Malack back as soon as he was able to.

Well, as you point out, I don't think anything short of Wish, Miracle, or Crazy Third-Party Sourcebooks will bring Malack back as a vampire. And we don't know if a newly-resurrected living Malack would consent to being re-vampirized. Assuming they could find someone willing to vampirize him without keeping him as a thrall or extorting some other concession out of Tarquin.

As for usuing Wish, Miracle, or True Resurrection, we don't know what classes and levels Tarquin's allies are. Characters of level 17+ are extremely rare in this setting, and, even if Miron Shewdanker or Ioun Stone Lady are high enough level, they may not actually be the right classes.

So, no I don't think Tarquin's going to bring back Malack. Even if he really wants to (and he might just shrug it off as "cost of doing business"), the means to do so aren't necessarily available to him.

[Kish]

3) In a previous comic he mentioned having a True Ressurection spell cast on Nale should Malack kill him (forget which, I'm sure someone knows)
Who's He?

Haley thought that if they killed Nale out of hand the last time they captured him, someone secretly loyal to Nale would arrange a True Resurrection.

Whether there is more than one character in the entire comic who can cast Miracle or True Resurrection is questionable. (The one in question is named Blackarmor.) True Resurrection--if cast by a level 20 cleric (so not even Blackarmor could do it!)--would bring back the living Malack, which Vampire Malack considered a fate as bad as or worse than the fate he currently suffers. It would take two Wishes, one to restore Malack's corpse and another (which would probably need to be cast by a level 20+ sorcerer/wizard) to...bring back the living Malack, again; there may well be no one in the entire comic who knows Wish. But if Tarquin can pull a level 20+ wizard out of his back pocket, it may, in fact, be possible to restore Malack (one Wish to recreate his corpse, another to restore him to life, a third to turn him into a vampire again, if the DM feels like being accomodating). In other news, if Xykon can cast I Win then the entire plot is pointless.

[Rakoa]

I believe the OP is referring to a Wanted poster that was mentioned in another thread, which Tarquin put out for Nale. The poster covered the charges of a True Resurrection should Nale be turned in dead. This would indicate that Tarquin has access to True Resurrection.

[Kish]

That's quite an assumption about the significance of a difference between a 10,000 and 35,000 GP bounty. For a character who we now know Malack, at least, planned to kill almost immediately if he did get turned in alive. I suggest that either the 25,000 GP had more to do with "the cost of Malack's disappointment in not getting to kill Nale personally" than "the cost of a True Resurrection"...or, if Tarquin planned to resurrect Nale if he died, he must have planned to arrange Malack's destruction; Malack wouldn't stand for Nale being restored.

(Note also that I very much favor Option 1 here. "If you give me his corpse, I'll take the cost of a True Resurrection out of the bounty" wouldn't even make sense; if a level-17 cleric has a corpse, casting Resurrection is easier than casting True Resurrection anyway, unless you're suggesting Tarquin is so solicitous of Nale that he and his hypothetical True-Resurrection-casting-cleric couldn't stand for Nale to lose a level getting resurrected. And any cleric who could cast True Resurrection could just cast Miracle and teleport Nale directly to them.)

[Grey Watcher]

I believe the OP is referring to a Wanted poster that was mentioned in another thread, which Tarquin put out for Nale. The poster covered the charges of a True Resurrection should Nale be turned in dead. This would indicate that Tarquin has access to True Resurrection.

Huh. I never put that together as the reason for the price difference. Thanks!

To save future readers some digging:

True Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueResurrection.htm)

The wanted to poster. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html)

[Rakoa]

Keep in mind I was simply clarifying what I believe to be the point of the OP, not agreeing with it. Though the numbers do seem too precise to be coincidental.

[Grey Watcher]

That's quite an assumption about the significance of a difference between a 10,000 and 35,000 GP bounty. For a character who we now know Malack, at least, planned to kill almost immediately if he did get turned in alive. I suggest that either the 25,000 GP had more to do with "the cost of Malack's disappointment in not getting to kill Nale personally" than "the cost of a True Resurrection"...or, if Tarquin planned to resurrect Nale if he died, he must have planned to arrange Malack's destruction; Malack wouldn't stand for Nale being restored.

I dunno, Malack expressly stated when he encountered Belkar that he prefers not to let other people do his dirty work for him, so bringing back Nale, in captivity, just to snuff him out again in a suitably excruciating manner might be something he'd relish.

Heck, I'd imagine that the attitudes would be reversed. Malack saying "Let's bring him back so we can kill him again, but more painfully," and Tarquin being the one to object: "Waste of time and resources. If he's dead, our mission is accomplished without having to waste effort on it."

Only, because it'd be Burlew writing the dialogue would be a lot better than that. :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Nale wouldn't accept a resurrection from Malack so he could be tortured, and if he would there would still be no reason to make it True Resurrection instead of Resurrection, or just plain Raise Dead (which Malack could cast himself :smalltongue:).

[Kornaki]

Nale wouldn't accept a resurrection from Malack so he could be tortured, and if he would there would still be no reason to make it True Resurrection instead of Resurrection, or just plain Raise Dead (which Malack could cast himself :smalltongue:).

He wouldn't know though. All he knows is he's getting a LE cleric to resurrect him after a random encounter went south, which wouldn't be terribly surprising if he thinks his LG buddies are getting him raised

[Diadem]

I don't see why a true resurrection would be needed. Resurrection explicitly states that the remains of a disintegrated creature suffice, so I don't see why the remains of a burned vampire wouldn't.

After that turning him back into a Vampire would only require Malack's staff, which Tarquin could obtain either by force of through trade. (or both: give me the staff or I kill the OOTS).

I doubt it's going to happen though. I loved Malack as a character, and I'm really sad to see him go. But it was meant to be, and Malack served his purpose in the story. Bringing him back just to have him killed again at some later point, with very few scenes in between, seems like a waste of panels.

[WindStruck]

Sure, resurrection or raise dead may only be needed... that is if Malack were to not completely destroy the body. Too much of a coincidence, imo.

[Grey Watcher]

He wouldn't know though. All he knows is he's getting a LE cleric to resurrect him after a random encounter went south, which wouldn't be terribly surprising if he thinks his LG buddies are getting him raised

I can't find text to back it up, but I thought the target of Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection got the name, deity, and alignment of the caster. It's just that in the case of Durkon trying to Resurrect the Draketooths, the alignment part of that data was what they were likely reacting to in declining the Resurrection. But if Malack were trying to raise Nale, he'd know it was Malack and would refuse to come back.

[Green and Red]

Revivification against One’s Will

A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis.

from the SRD.


Anyway, getting malak back as the vampire he was is a difficult proposition. The only way i see within core is to try to free-form wish or miracle it. This should be within reach, although it may take two if they dont have any dust or things.

Ress/True ressing him could be possible, but i dont think we have exact rules on how such thing work. I mean maybe they would get him back as he was twohundred years ago, with no knowledge or skills of his unlife since then. At this point even re-vamping him is pretty pointless. Something like this seems to be indicated by malacks comment abour ressing him (that it would kill the person he is now).
Or maybe they get him back with pre-vamp alingnment, in which case he may not cooperate even if he remembers
Or... theres a lot of options.

[Reddish Mage]

Been thinking, and a few things came to me tired little brain.

1) Malack is dead killed by Nale. (Giant verified that part)
2) Seems Tarquin might have very much sent them along together to sort out their issues where he wouldn't have to take sides. (no proof but this is tarquin we're talking about, not beyond reason by any stretch)
3) In a previous comic he mentioned having a True Ressurection spell cast on Nale should Malack kill him (forget which, I'm sure someone knows)

Now...

Unless Tarquin ( and the other members of their group) actually want Malack to stay dead, I think it would be a large plot hole for them not to simply bring him back. Tarquin obviously has the money and the connections to afford top tier magic, seems to have loyaly to Malack (and we have no idea about the rest of the group) He was an important member, a vast help to tarquin controlling the empire and someone Tarquin coiuld trust.

What reason would Tarquin have for not simply using magic to bring back Malack?

Now unless I'm missing something about house rules, Wish and Miracle could do it, and True Ressurection would least bring him back as living Malack.

Am I overlooking something here? Just would seem really really odd if Tarquin simply didn't bring Malack back as soon as he was able to.


Maybe Tarquin is actually impressed Nale managed to do it and is willing to side with his flesh and his high level team over gimmicky uses of wish spells to get back an ally that is very reluctant about signing on to the new program.

[The Pilgrim]

Hey, people, let's use Fridge Logic here.

Remember that Malack was all pissed off and hurt by the loss of his murdered children? We used to ask back then why he just didn't resurrect them. Now we know, he didn't resurrect them because he couldn't, as they were vampires and, even if he found a cleric high level enough to cast True Ressurection, it would bring back to life the mortal versions of his children, not his vampiric children.

So all this give us an important piece of information: If Team Tarquin lacked the resources to bring back Malack's Children (because they did not bring them back), then by the same logic they lack the resources to bring back Malack himself, as a Vampire.

To bring Malack back as a mortal, they need a Level 20 cleric because he has been dead for 200 years. And even if they found one, or we bend the rules to count the "time since death" starting from his death at the hands of Nale and not at his vampirization (so a Level 13 Cleric would suffice), the question is... does Tarquin need the mortal Malack back? a guy he does not know? a guy that might even had not been evil? a guy who probably was so low level that he would be useless for Tarquin? Why waste all that money to bring back a gimp when he can hire a more powerful dude at the next bar for much less money?

[Tircey]

Hey, people, let's use Fridge Logic here.

Remember that Malack was all pissed off and hurt by the loss of his murdered children? We used to ask back then why he just didn't resurrect them. Now we know, he didn't resurrect them because he couldn't, as they were vampires and, even if he found a cleric high level enough to cast True Ressurection, it would bring back to life the mortal versions of his children, not his vampiric children.

So all this give us an important piece of information: If Team Tarquin lacked the resources to bring back Malack's Children (because they did not bring them back), then by the same logic they lack the resources to bring back Malack himself, as a Vampire.

To bring Malack back as a mortal, they need a Level 20 cleric because he has been dead for 200 years. And even if they found one, or we bend the rules to count the "time since death" starting from his death at the hands of Nale and not at his vampirization (so a Level 13 Cleric would suffice), the question is... does Tarquin need the mortal Malack back? a guy he does not know? a guy that might even had not been evil? a guy who probably was so low level that he would be useless for Tarquin? Why waste all that money to bring back a gimp when he can hire a more powerful dude at the next bar for much less money?

I think the resally simple counter to this would be that Tarquin and Co could have brought them back but it wasn't worth it to them. Malack himself on the other hand? He's probably worth it. And Malack is seemingloy very willing to shut up and toe the line when Tarquin tells him too.