OOTS #907 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Rakoa]

I am speechless.

[Drake2009]

New comic!!! Awesome thank you! Super vampire dwarf power!

[Goosefeather]

He's back! :smallbiggrin:

[DolGrenn]

Durkon ftw! Whoops, I mean, Durkula ftw!

[CoffeeIncluded]

I let out a cheer when I saw his accent return.

Hey, remember what Redcloak said? About how the undead are nothing more than "Bits of skin and bone and dark energy, glued together in the shape of a man?"

Wrong again, Redcloak (at least when it comes to intelligent undead).

[RustyVenture]

This is exactly what I was hoping for. There is a shred of Durkon in there! The OOTS finally catch a break!

[Perseus]

Mwuahaha!

Awesome!

[Miraqariftsky]

Beeeeaaautiful, sir Giant.

[Shale]

HELL YEAH, DURKON!

Literally, I suppose.

[khoregate]

Durkula Kicks bottom and takes names

[Norin Warstone]

Get 'em, Durkon!! Yeah!!

[AutomatedTeller]

Go Durkon!!

[Eloi]

Durkon's back! And kicking ass! Maybe he can help the Order in their current predicament?

[Morquard]

Yes! Go Durkon!

And his speech is back to normal, woohoo! :)

[Forikroder]

woot Durkons still durkon :)

[Downzorz]

I love Durkula so much right now.

[Morty]

Not even becoming a vampire can remove someone's desire to smash Nale in the face with a blunt object. :smallcool:

[Rakoa]

Internet, there is now a bounty on Ghost Nappa's head for posting before me.

[Syncrogti]

O Yeah! I am super stoked about where this is going!!!!

[Shred-Bot]

I let out a cheer when I saw his accent return.

Hey, remember what Redcloak said? About how the undead are nothing more than "Bits of skin and bone and dark energy, glued together in the shape of a man?"

Wrong again, Redcloak (at least when it comes to intelligent undead).

Yes! I would have been heartbroken if his accent was lost forever. Though free-willed vampire Durkon needs to wash out his mouth!

[Goosefeather]

Also, man, that last panel looks painful - teeth flying everywhere... :smalleek:

[HalfTangible]

hahahaha... heh.

Nice :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

Return of the accent!! But is Durkon going to swear often now?!

And Dwarfy-Man broke Z's teeth...

[Ghost Nappa]

Internet, there is now a bounty on Ghost Nappa's head for posting before me.

I'm on the case.

[Craft (Cheese)]

REJECTED!

(ahem)

I honestly didn't think even Nale would have been stupid enough to try that.

[Rakoa]

I'm on the case.

Excellent. I couldn't have hired a better man to find him for me.

[Carteeg_Struve]

Ouch. Do cure spells replace lost teeth? :smallbiggrin:

[Shred-Bot]

Also... Zz'dtri gets PAID!?

I'm pretty sure Thog's compensation was entirely done in ice cream.

[Prospero7]

Wooohooo! Go Durkula!

[Blisstake]

Heh, glad to see the accent's back.

[scienceguy8]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me. You think it is back to good old marching alongside the Order? I mean, if they can keep Belkar pointed in the general direction of the enemy, they can certainly do the same for someone who was good to begin with.

[Fish]

Not what I expected, but a very welcome surprise.

[Eulalios]

Excellent full staff technique in the last panel.

[Vinsfeld]

Vampire Dorkun FTW

Also, am I the only one that finds smiling Z kinda cute?

[3WhiteFox3]

Durkon is back (or at least not entirely gone) and the linear guild gets a well-deserved ass-kicking. Good times all around.

Am I the only one who wonders if Malack's Holy Symbol will play some part? I just noticed it on the ground and wondered if it might mean anything. It's probably not anything worth significance, but you never know.

[TrixiePixie]

"Always hiring"
When I saw that I was so enraged by the thought that I had to go see immediately how the strip ended.
Hell yeah, maybe people will finally stop calling him Durkula.

[Zea mays]

Whooo!
Yay Durkon!

At least some of you is still there!

[skim172]

Z's a rotten liar.

There's no way that Linear Guild pays a fair wage. :smallannoyed:

Especially considering how many members end up incarcerated or dead or sued for intellectual property infringement. Their profit stream must be in the crapper, and I can't see Nale giving good health benefits. And is there any hazard pay? I DON'T THINK SO.

Screw this, I'm gonna go apply at McDonald's. At least Ronald cares. :smallmad:

[Forikroder]

Whooo!
Yay Durkon!

At least some of you is still there!

seems like the vast majority of him is still there

[Shale]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me.

By definition, he's Evil now. That's a black-and-white rule for conversion to vampirism. But the OOTS is not a Good-only club - V is True Neutral, Belkar's CE. Durkon still has every reason not to want the world to be destroyed, after all. He might decide he has other priorities than stopping it personally - taking over for himself (he's now Epic, after all), or maybe getting revenge on the priests of Thor who exiled him, for instance.

[Marller]

Thank you Durkon.

That's all i have to say.

[Leliel]

Evil is always hiring...

But doesn't necessarily pitch the job well.

Seems like Name doesn't realize that Always Evil doesn't mean Always Treacherous.

Especially for vamps, where connection to the living is practically required.

[Fjolnir]

I definitely like the callback to the Team Evil: Always Hiring thing from waaay back

[Connington]

I wouldn't get too excited just yet. Durkon is still prophesied to bring death and destruction on his people with his posthumous return. Having his old accent and grudges doesn't necessarily mean he isn't Evil.

[MoonCat]

THE ACCENT HAS RETURNED TO US!

Durkula is my new favorite character, I only wish V could've seen Z getting bitch-smacked by a staff. :smallcool:

WONK!

[Glich]

Ouch. Do cure spells replace lost teeth? :smallbiggrin:

been awhile but i think you need a regenerate for that. like for and eye or a limb. cure only heals what one could naturally heal. so unless your a shark i don't think it can do teeth.


on a more general note will D rejoin the order? the Order is't exactly a "Good" party D and roy are only ones i am sure are good. i think everyone else is some form of Neutral except Bell of course.

[Ranzarock]

You'd think the Linear Guild would learn after failing to hire Miko just because someone has "fallen" doesn't automatically make them evil, much less wanting to be hired as a B stringer.

[Sir_Leorik]

So that answers a few questions! :smallbiggrin:

Durkon is not joining the Linear Guild, he does still have his accent, and he is still a badass. It's like his grandpappy always said "speak softly and hit someone wit' big sticks!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0366.html)

This also helps illustrate what the IFCC pointed out: Evil is not one big team; it's many different sides who hate each other. Durkon may be Evil now, but he is not a fan of the Linear Guild. (Except maybe Hilgya. :smallwink:)

[Meggy]

Oh man, that was brilliant! It looks like, to me at least, that Durkon has changed a little as a vampire - I don't think I ever actually remember him swearing.

[Shred-Bot]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me. You think it is back to good old marching alongside the Order? I mean, if they can keep Belkar pointed in the general direction of the enemy, they can certainly do the same for someone who was good to begin with.

I'd say his alignment is still up for debate... but the personality is still there, as is his, ahem, distaste for the Linear Guild. Just because he still hates Nale and Z doesn't mean he's automatically still "Good".

[Forikroder]

I wouldn't get too excited just yet. Durkon is still prophesied to bring death and destruction on his people with his posthumous return. Having his old accent and grudges doesn't necessarily mean he isn't Evil.

death and destruction being his domains

[Lvl45DM!]

The Accent's Back! Aaaaaaaaaaah Yeah!

[Ezekiel]

Maybe he can think of someone else's blood to drink Nale.... :smallbiggrin:

Go Durkula!!

[Raineh Daze]

I just knew that Durkon was going to attack those two, the only question is 'what reason'.

Also fun to see the benefit that vampire bonuses have in overcoming TWF penalties against a pair of squishy wizards. Quarterstaff is the best double weapon, it's so easy to forget you can just hit people with magic staffs. :smallbiggrin:

[Thokk_Smash]

Oh, that was sweet. Great job!

[JosephOrJoe]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment

The old Durkon would have called them something different.

[HalfTangible]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me. You think it is back to good old marching alongside the Order? I mean, if they can keep Belkar pointed in the general direction of the enemy, they can certainly do the same for someone who was good to begin with.

Vampires are always evil. They kinda have to be: they survive on the blood of sentient beings. If they weren't before being turned, their alignment changes with them.

I think.

[dogmac]

Aaaah, Durkon, I could kiss your fangy mouth!!

I won't, of course...

Maybe you can one day turn into the vampires ala Terry Pratchett who shift their blood craving into another liquid. Obviously, beer, in your case.

[Pronounceable]

Durkon said a bad word!!!

I'm really surprised Giant actually used "****" in the strip but I'm not complaining. We've seen all sorts of evil, torture and genocide and whatnot, it's actually strange we've never seen stronger words. Whatever, it's a minor point.

I had the feeling Durkon would rejoin the Order. We'll finally get some character development with Durkon (who's had none so far) and interparty drama about his vampiric state. I suspect Belkar is gonna die before we're done here, Giant already did a number on us with first fakeout. Continuing with Durkon while losing Belkar now would be an even better twist.

[silversaraph]

Magnificent. :smallamused:

[ComposerSuzuran]

Well, Durkon, welcome back. Let's hope you haven't changed too much. But right now, this feels pretty sweet.

[jaeden1000]

HECK YES DURKON!!!!!!!!!!!! KICK BUTT!!! Stupid Nale!

[Sir_Leorik]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me.

His personality seems to be mostly the same, as well as his memories. But there's nothing in the D&D rules that says one Evil character can't smack two other Evil characters upside the head for past greivances. :smallbiggrin:

[OhMyGodImOnFire]

My love for Durkon has returned with a ferocious passion <3

[MesiDoomstalker]

I have a feeling, just a feeling, Z is gonna die here. Nale will escape, like the coward he is, but I believe Durkon is going to have a good badass moment here, and Z is the nearest NPC of importance without Twin-based plot armor.

[LordofNaught]

To quote Q for a moment, "Heeee's Baaaaack!" Let the fun begin!

[Yendor]

Well, it was worth a shot.

[The Pilgrim]

Looks like Nale sucks as much at tempting as his girlfriend.

[Regitnui]

Hey, Durkon can go home to the dwarven kingdoms now! So says the Oracle, though I suspect he's rejoin the OotS first (or at least attempt to...)

In other news, I wonder if V's still alive, since his/her/its body was in the pyramid when it blew...

[Kornaki]

And now we know why Z stays with Nale

[3WhiteFox3]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me. You think it is back to good old marching alongside the Order? I mean, if they can keep Belkar pointed in the general direction of the enemy, they can certainly do the same for someone who was good to begin with.


If Rich follows D&D rules here, Durkon would become Evil in alignment, but would not lose his lawful nature nor any significant portion of his personality, he'd just be more selfish and 'evil'. This is foreshadowed by Durkon's comment that he may have changed. I take this to mean that he's still Durkon at his core, but his main desires will be for his own gratification. I get the feeling that he'll hook up with the order out of loyalty to Roy (Tarquin and Malack proved that Evil creatures can have friends and loyalties to other people, they just care about themselves and have evil goals).

My speculation is that Belkar will be moved out of the 'token evil teamate' slot (either through character development or death) in the Order and Durkon will move in. But while Belkar was always a bit out of control, Durkon will be loyal and probably more compliant.

[Ghost Nappa]

Durkon's Vampiric status further rationalizes his fear of trees. After all, what are stakes made of?

[Lvl45DM!]

Nale always was a wonker :smallbiggrin:

[Goosefeather]

I have a feeling, just a feeling, Z is gonna die here. Nale will escape, like the coward he is, but I believe Durkon is going to have a good badass moment here, and Z is the nearest NPC of importance without Twin-based plot armor.

He can have his badass moment by being a Big Damn Hero and coming to the rescue of the rest of the Order, though. I think it's plausible enough that both Zz'dtri and Nale escape this.

[Deepbluediver]

Durkon Durkon he's our cleric*
Standard dwarf, so generic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html).
Tossed out quick, by his kin
He can drink (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0170.html) and fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html) and heal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html) and win.

GOOOOOOO STICKIES!!!!


*it's surprisingly hard to find good words to rhyme with "dwarf"

[pwning doodes]

Wooooo! Go Durkon! :smallbiggrin:I was so happy I laughed when saw Durkon get his dwarven accent back and hit Nale with the staff. Though... "changed" ? One heaping plate of character development with a side of alignment shift coming right up!:smalleek:

[Newwby]

:smallbiggrin:

Durkon looked quite catatonic at first, was he shaking off the effects of thralldom?

I keep forgetting Qarr is about, every time he appears I start wondering 'was he always there?' Until he speaks I never notice the little red blighter.

[Thokk_Smash]

I have a feeling, just a feeling, Z is gonna die here. Nale will escape, like the coward he is, but I believe Durkon is going to have a good badass moment here, and Z is the nearest NPC of importance without Twin-based plot armor.

Laying the smackdown on the Silicon elemental would be badass too (maybe more, since Z may or may not have more hit points than it does), and would make sure the Order doesn't die. Though he does have Resurrection prepared...

Still, he's uninjured and Nale and Z are both hurt. Things are starting to look up.

[Demolator]

1. That was AWESOME.

2. I think we just found out why Zz'dtri works with Nale.

3. Wasn't Nale happy to overcome the evil opposite theme?

[Kish]

"Always hiring"
When I saw that I was so enraged by the thought that I had to go see immediately how the strip ended.
Hell yeah, maybe people will finally stop calling him Durkula.
Not until he demonstrates that he's gone evil enough to come through the fourth wall and drain the blood of everyone who's called him something silly, now that he's free-willed.

[Oko and Qailee]

OMG OMG OMG DURKON IS BACK IN THE HOUSE!!

This is the best day ever!

[Jordan Cat]

Go Durkon! :)

[BrometheusJones]

I like how this is going so far.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I know Nale and Z are just going to teleport away or if they don't, the OotS will once again stupidly just ineffectually jail them (which even the dumbass has caught onto enough to lampshade).

But I can hope at least... that Durkon hits nale* with a dimensional anchor and then nale, begging for mercy implores him to just take him prisoner yet again. To which Durkon notes that his new alignment has...massaged his moral views and finishes the bastard off! Man, this would be so perfect, all the members of the LG I actually like (except Quarr, but I seriously doubt Durkon will even give him any attack priority) are not around, and the two I've been wanting to die / go away for 700+ strips are here!

*It's downright implausible he has the actions to hit both of them and actually win the fight, too, so maybe Z escapes on his own, maybe he stays and dies with nale.

[F.Harr]

I am speechless.

I'm not.


YAY DURKULA!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thokk_Smash]

1. That was AWESOME.

2. I think we just found out why Zz'dtri works with Nale.

3. Wasn't Nale happy to overcome the evil opposite theme?

He did say "for what it's worth", so it's not like he put much stock in that argument. If he is Lawful (or even if he's not), then he's probably just saying it out of either habit or...something.

[Giggling Ghast]

The use of "same old d**ks" was the crowner for me. I giggled. :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

:smallbiggrin:

Durkon looked quite catatonic at first, was he shaking off the effects of thralldom?

I keep forgetting Qarr is about, every time he appears I start wondering 'was he always there?' Until he speaks I never notice the little red blighter.

Well he IS a familiar now. :smalltongue:

[TRH]

Predictable? Yes. Awesome? Also yes!

Really, was there ever a reason for Durkula NOT to attack them? Probably not. :smallamused:

[RMS Oceanic]

And my comparison between this and Miko's breakdown is enhanced.

405 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html)/906 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html): Character sees something that changes their whole outlook, with a blank look on their face.
406 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html)/907 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html): Character remains blank for most of a page before acting on their decision.

So Durkon is not interested in allying with the Linear Guild, and makes this plain. It could be because he has his old alignment, or it could be because they're not enough for his ambitions. I hope 908 explains that a little clearer!

[BrometheusJones]

Z's flying tooth is awesome, BTW.

[F.Harr]

Oh! And it's good to know that Nale can keep they payroll up. You'd have thought he'd get distracted with everything else going on.

[Jordan Cat]

Something that didn't click in my head yet until now, but he has the staff with the Daylight Protection spell in it. Maybe he'll start using it from now on?

[Rakoa]

I'm not.


YAY DURKULA!!!!!!!!!!!

I was more speechless at getting the second post. :smallwink:

[jakon]

That was awesome, hope Z has good dental insurance.

[warmachine]

The question is still what Durkon will do next. In a comic featuring people getting killed, calling people '*****' and hitting them with a stick is fairly mild. Clearly, Durkon is responding to the offer in no uncertain terms but if he had murder in mind, he'd use deadly spells.

I predict Durkon will re-join OotS to save the gates then destroy himself after getting a promise that he'll be buried in his homeland. That'd be the Durkon we all know and love.

[Crustypeanut]

I'm almost certain Durkon is Lawful Evil. He summoned a Devil earlier, while Z summoned a Daemon. We know that pre-vampirism, Durkon was Lawful Good. Well, I'm betting he kept the Lawful aspect, and just flipped sides and went to the Evil aspect.

We know he CANNOT be good or chaotic, at least. As summoning a Devil would be a Lawful and Evil spell, and Clerics can't cast opposition alignment spells such as that.

[AutomatedTeller]

been awhile but i think you need a regenerate for that. like for and eye or a limb. cure only heals what one could naturally heal. so unless your a shark i don't think it can do teeth.


on a more general note will D rejoin the order? the Order is't exactly a "Good" party D and roy are only ones i am sure are good. i think everyone else is some form of Neutral except Bell of course.


Elan is Chaotic Good. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html) Dunno about Haley - she might be neutral good, or chaotic neutral.

[The Smallest]

Durkon just used a swear word for probably the first time in his life. Good to see he has retained his personality, though.

[BrometheusJones]

The question is still what Durkon will do next. In a comic featuring people getting killed, calling people '*****' and hitting them with a stick is fairly mild. Clearly, Durkon is responding to the offer in no uncertain terms but if he had murder in mind, he'd use deadly spells.

He has a great strength bonus now though, and those two are almost dead as it is. One more good smack and their both probably KOed. If he has spells left he might need to save them for the sand thing.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm almost certain Durkon is Lawful Evil. He summoned a Devil earlier, while Z summoned a Daemon. We know that pre-vampirism, Durkon was Lawful Good. Well, I'm betting he kept the Lawful aspect, and just flipped sides and went to the Evil aspect.

We know he CANNOT be good or chaotic, at least. As summoning a Devil would be a Lawful and Evil spell, and Clerics can't cast opposition alignment spells such as that.

Durkon was not truly free willed when he summoned the devil, so I wouldn't ascribe anything he did up until Malack's dusting to his alignment. The real test begins now.

[Shale]

The question is still what Durkon will do next. In a comic featuring people getting killed, calling people '*****' and hitting them with a stick is fairly mild. Clearly, Durkon is responding to the offer in no uncertain terms but if he had murder in mind, he'd use deadly spells.


He doesn't have any deadly spells left. His only prepared spell worth mentioning now that he's already cast Planar Ally is Thor's Might, and it's possible he can't cast Thor's Anything now that he's Evil.

[Henry the 57th]

I think now would be an excellent time for a Dimension Door/Teleport. Villain exit, stage right.

[Ghost Nappa]

I'm almost certain Durkon is Lawful Evil. He summoned a Devil earlier, while Z summoned a Daemon. We know that pre-vampirism, Durkon was Lawful Good. Well, I'm betting he kept the Lawful aspect, and just flipped sides and went to the Evil aspect.

We know he CANNOT be good or chaotic, at least. As summoning a Devil would be a Lawful and Evil spell, and Clerics can't cast opposition alignment spells such as that.

Is it possible for him to be Lawful Neutral?

[The Smallest]

He doesn't have any deadly spells left. His only prepared spell worth mentioning now that he's already cast Planar Ally is Thor's Might, and it's possible he can't cast Thor's Anything now that he's Evil.

He can still use the spells in the staff, though.

[BrometheusJones]

Durkon just used a swear word for probably the first time in his life. Good to see he has retained his personality, though.

I bet he swears like a sailor when he gets drunk...

He is a dwarf, after all.

[Crustypeanut]

Durkon was not truly free willed when he summoned the devil, so I wouldn't ascribe anything he did up until Malack's dusting to his alignment. The real test begins now.

True, true.. but I'm still betting that he's LE. LE is the best Evil, in my opinion, so I'm also rooting for it to be so!

[Deepbluediver]

He doesn't have any deadly spells left. His only prepared spell worth mentioning now that he's already cast Planar Ally is Thor's Might, and it's possible he can't cast Thor's Anything now that he's Evil.

If he got to replace his existing spells with ones more suitable to his new alignment (which seems likely, even if he didn't recover used spell slots), then maybe he's got something else up his sleeve in it's place. I'd love to see some him black-lightning around, though if he swaps the worship of Nergal for Hel (the dwarven death-goddess) something plague or disease related is probably better themed.

[Toper]

Ooh, full attack with the quarterstaff!

...is maybe not what Durkon would do if he were actually trying to kill them. Especially since he hit Nale and Zz'dtri once each, rather than concentrating his attacks on one of them. He didn't even try the level-draining vampire slam attack -- note the lack of a dark aura.

It feels more like a rebuke than an attempt at deadly force. Which is interesting -- I guess he wants to keep talking? I'm surprised he wouldn't want to immediately revenge Malack; that seems like what evil alignment + encountering people who just killed his friend would add up to. But of course it's hard to really deduce his state of mind at this point.

[Kish]

on a more general note will D rejoin the order? the Order is't exactly a "Good" party D and roy are only ones i am sure are good. i think everyone else is some form of Neutral except Bell of course.
Elan is Chaotic Good, the most Good-aligned character in the Order, maybe in the comic (possibly tied with Celia).

Haley is Chaotic Goodish.

[Estelindis]

Eeek! :smalleek: Nice to see that Durkon isn't totally the opposite of himself. Slightly surprised by him calling Nale and Z "*****," as I don't remember that insult coming up in the strip before. I seem to recall Durkon swearing on occasion in the past, though, and it's not out of keeping with a dwarven character in general to do so. (Edit: Hah, the swear filter on the boards stops me from quoting Durkon properly!)

That's two of the linear guild suffering tooth loss in combat with the Order now. :smallamused: Also interesting that by limiting themselves to imprisoning the Linear Guild that the Order makes themselves less of a threat, though that's not their aim.

Anyway, I was kinda hoping to see inside Durkon's head in a similar way to how we saw Haley talk to her inner selves or Belkar hallucinate Lord Shojo. But I am happy to wait and see where this goes. Utterly intrigued by the Durkula plot and on tenterhooks for the next installment. :smallsmile:

[Lvl45DM!]

Compare Nales wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html) with Nales wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html)

Damn near identical no?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The use of "same old d**ks" was the crowner for me. I giggled. :smallbiggrin:

Really? I actually felt really sad right then. That's the point where I realized that Durkon really is dead. This new Durkula-guy might wind up being similar, but the old, pious Durkon wouldn't have been so crass.

I'll pour a libation for you, dwarf-friend. :smallfrown:

[Spoomeister]

If Rich follows D&D rules here, Durkon would become Evil in alignment, but would not lose his lawful nature nor any significant portion of his personality, he'd just be more selfish and 'evil'. This is foreshadowed by Durkon's comment that he may have changed. I take this to mean that he's still Durkon at his core, but his main desires will be for his own gratification. I get the feeling that he'll hook up with the order out of loyalty to Roy (Tarquin and Malack proved that Evil creatures can have friends and loyalties to other people, they just care about themselves and have evil goals).

My speculation is that Belkar will be moved out of the 'token evil teamate' slot (either through character development or death) in the Order and Durkon will move in. But while Belkar was always a bit out of control, Durkon will be loyal and probably more compliant.

Speculation time!

First, on what Durkon will do:
Great googly moogly. Durkula is going to kill Belkar.

Consider: Roy has only just barely restrained himself from slaying Belkar before. The others wouldn't (Haley), couldn't (Elan), or don't care (V). Roy would be tremendously conflicted, but if pressed and honest with himself, wouldn't mind seeing Belkar gone. V would love to see Belkar gone but has had bigger concerns. As Durkula, Durkon has no moral constraints on offing him, could make an argument about being an effective team player, and has had a taste for him before. And, as foreshadowed previously, Belkar is hovering around 0 HP right now. I just thought as of a couple strips ago that the 'one good hit will kill me' would come from the elemental or Team Evil, not from Durkula.

Second, on who Durkon is now, since I don't think "live for his own goals" matches the definition of "lawful evil" per se:

There's been great comic fodder through most of the strips about Thor being an out-of-touch buffoon of a god. Durkon has been nothing but fervent, nothing but loyal, nothing but proud of his religion and place in the world and standing as a dwarf.

I wouldn't be surprised if being turned into a vampire would be taken as a sign of direct rejection by his god, indirect proof that his god is capricious or not worth following, etc. Durkon's faith must be shaken now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he made it his mission to return home, but with the notion that Nergal is closer to some truth than Thor is. I.e. the interpretation of Lawful Evil here can be a simple "I've changed teams and will now wreak death and destruction in the name of the god that chose me instead of fighting for the one who spurned me".

Yes, in game mechanic terms, there are probably spells that can be cast to un-vamp him, or to kill him and then bring his soul back to what it was and put it where it belonged. Durkon basically offered to help do something like that when he fought Malack the last time, I think. But in character motivation terms, just as we've seen characters refuse to be resurrected or contacted from beyond, it's reasonable to think that Durkon will refuse whatever might be possible or offered to him.

Plus there's the little matter of a bit of a ticking clock. The staff has only so many charges left in it before Durkon really has to live as a monster, i.e. about 2 months assuming daily use before he literally has to hide from the light.

[Ellye]

Vampire Dorkun FTW

Also, am I the only one that finds smiling Z kinda cute?Z smile is super cute and super creepy.

[El Grapadura]

I think Nale's attempt to sway Durkon here is a bit surprising but not entirely out of character. He spent a decent amount of time with the Order and still never realized that everyone is there because they want to be, even Belkar now, in his own twisted way. This strip kind of highlights that, with perhaps the exception of Sabine, Nale has a pretty shallow mercenary relationship with his team. Even Z to a degree. Nothing we didn't really know already, but it's nice to see it bite him in the butt.

Anywho, Durkon's back and things are looking up in terms of his still rolling with the Order. Good news. More Character depth for Durkon, hooray.

[Chaotic Queen]

So is Durkon still Durkon? Or is this vampire just a soulless shell with his memories while Durkon's soul has moved on?

[BrometheusJones]

Really? I actually felt really sad right then. That's the point where I realized that Durkon really is dead. This new Durkula-guy might wind up being similar, but the old, pious Durkon wouldn't have been so crass.

I'll pour a libation for you, dwarf-friend. :smallfrown:

This might be the most stressful moment of Durkons entire existence. He shouldnt be expected to retain perfect composure, should he? AND... hes a dwarf! Swearing (which this really isnt anyway) is only natural to them :smallwink:

[sam79]

Awesome!! I'm sure this puts paid to theories about Durkon being a part of the Linear Guild going forward. Whether he'll rejoin the Order remians to be seen. I'd bet yes.

[subanark]

Durkon is a cleric, since his alignment has changed it means he has to be worshiping a new god as Thor is Good. I'm not sure on the exact rules, but chances are he is worshiping Nerghal.

[Gift Jeraff]

Durkon is a cleric, since his alignment has changed it means he has to be worshiping a new god as Thor is Good. I'm not sure on the exact rules, but chances are he is worshiping Nerghal.

He is currently a nontheistic cleric.

[Ghost Nappa]

Awesome!! I'm sure this puts paid to theories about Durkon being a part of the Linear Guild going forward. Whether he'll rejoin the Order remians to be seen. I'd bet yes.

I thought we finished the book "Don't Split the Party."

[Chessgeek]

The dialogue was rather... Unexpected. But I guess this is the different Durkon that we'll be seeing from now on.

[Joe the Rat]

The hardest part was waiting... stopping and reading, being ever so careful not to scroll into the last row... because whatever Durkon decides would happen there. And there's the payoff. Awesome.

It was worth using up all my willpower to not skip to the end. Now excuse me while I go eat a tub of strawberry frosting...


Durkula is my new favorite character, I only wish V could've seen Z getting bitch-smacked by a staff. :smallcool:


I wouldn't be surprised if they're watching this part "down in the rec room". The pity is not getting to read V's immediate reaction. Besides "Mpph mm mph!"


I bet he swears like a sailor when he gets drunk...

He is a dwarf, after all.Yeah, but he is a Dwarf. "Drinking" and "Getting drunk" don't always go together for Dwarves.

[Sponson]

Durkon died for Belkar.
Maybe Belkar will die for Durkon?

[Mutant Sheep]

Thank you Giant, for the birthday present. :smallbiggrin: Seeing Durkon do what I was hoping he would do (smack Nale in the face) was an awesome way to wake up.

Also, Durkon is amazing at punch lines while undead.:smallamused:

[Lvl45DM!]

Really? I actually felt really sad right then. That's the point where I realized that Durkon really is dead. This new Durkula-guy might wind up being similar, but the old, pious Durkon wouldn't have been so crass.

I'll pour a libation for you, dwarf-friend. :smallfrown:

I see your concern and raise you a Leafy Wanker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html). Remember he's a scottish parody so swearing is expected

[DeadMG]

Durkula turns Z into his thrall, whilst V is incapacitated. Then Z dies.

Also, I'm totally seeing Durkon's contract with Roy being the key issue here for him- he's still as Lawful as ever.

[Kish]

Durkon has always (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html) been the most foul-mouthed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html) member of the party. I don't know where all this, "He swore! He's totally not like Durkon at all!" stuff is coming from.

(Seriously? "****" is supposed to be worse than "bitch"?

...Well apparently the board filter thinks so. I am nonplussed.)

[Harry Leipzig]

Yay, Durkon's BACK, baby! Can't wait to see him whack Nale and Z a bit more. Now, the matter of Durkon's alignment will be interesting. There is the matter of him summoning a Devil. Can somebody be compelled to cast a spell in a Domain outside of their character alignment?

[TrollCapAmerica]

Love it love it LOVE IT

Now regarding discussion of alignment Considering all the alignment subversion in the comic over the years im betting this wont be as cut and dried as "Hes a Vampire now hes evil".Im betting this is another chance to play with old D&D conventions as well and its going to be fun to see how the Paragon of Lawful Dwarfdom deals with being turned into something he hates against his will

[Lvl45DM!]

Durkon has always (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html) been the most foul-mouthed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html) member of the party. I don't know where all this, "He swore! He's totally not like Durkon at all!" stuff is coming from.

(Seriously? "****" is supposed to be worse than "bitch"?

...Well apparently the board filter thinks so. I am nonplussed.)

Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

[Thokk_Smash]

Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

Intent does matter. Durkon meant it as a swear, not to describe a tree as a female dog.

[BrometheusJones]

From this point, I think Z is going to die.

Durkon has vengeance on his mind, and Z I think is going to be the biggest threat with his spells. I think Nale will use the time Durkon is using to kill Z to escape because it might be his only opportunity, seeing how low on health he is.

[Gift Jeraff]

Intent does matter. Durkon meant it as a swear, not to describe a tree as a female dog.

I think they're referring to why the board would filter one but not the other.

[Ave]

Vampires are always evil. They kinda have to be: they survive on the blood of sentient beings. If they weren't before being turned, their alignment changes with them.

I think.

Even if the blood of sentient beings is a must, there is always blood bank or willing donors. There are probably other ways of getting around this requirement.
On the other hand, i see a 60% chance for Durkon being evil, but a 99% chance of rejoining the old party.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm wondering if getting smacked in the face will impact Z's spellcasting.

[Goosefeather]

I see your concern and raise you a Leafy Wanker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html). Remember he's a scottish parody so swearing is expected

Yeah, it's worth reiterating that, whilst Americans unused to the word might find 'wanker' to be 'quaint' and inoffensive (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheBloodyResearch) (hence why it can be used in The Simpsons without fear of criticism), it's actually a middlingly strong term in its native habitat.



Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

People called 'Richard' would beg to differ. As would cooks serving up the spotted version of it.

[Rakoa]

Intent does matter. Durkon meant it as a swear, not to describe a tree as a female dog.

I think he meant to say "birch".

[Shale]

Being vampirized carries an instant alignment change to Evil, according to the SRD. Presumably this has more to do with the "animated by dark and unholy magics" thing than the drinking of blood per se.

[Shred-Bot]

Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

Not always... it has been used in the past as a slang term for a detective.

Though clearly Durkon wasn't using it like that.

[Doug Lampert]

Not even becoming a vampire can remove someone's desire to smash Nale in the face with a blunt object. :smallcool:

+1. :)

The only thing better to do with Nale than smashing him in the face with a blunt object is using a sharp object. :)

Although it was nice to see Nale get in one good kill.

[sam79]

I thought we finished the book "Don't Split the Party."

Title for the next book: "Seriously, Don't".

Nice to see Durkon speaking with his traditonal speech pattern. A sign, in my view view, that despite his Vampirism, Durkon is still at least partly Durkon.

[Ted The Bug]

*smiles and nods at screen*

Atta boy, Durkon.

[HalfTangible]

Elan is Chaotic Good. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html) Dunno about Haley - she might be neutral good, or chaotic neutral.

Chaotic Good(ish) by her own words (albeit aphasic words(is that a thing?) at the time)

[Anatares]

I guess in the next comic we find out if the Linear Guild also has a good dental plan! :smallbiggrin:

I'm hoping Z doesn't have another Dispel Magic or Teleport prepared. I want to see this fight to it's conclusion.

And what the heck was Nale thinking? "brb killing your friend. By the way want to work for me?" When 906 was posted people were admiring Nale for his plan to kill Malack, but in 907 he just brought the standard back down.

[3WhiteFox3]

It should be noted that nothing about being a vampire or about being evil necessitate Durkon to want to continue being a vampire. Vampires do not always like being cursed to have to feel incredible hunger when they don't feed. Especially if they've been turned against their will, after all Vampires have a lot of drawbacks and weaknesses, especially once that staff is done. Whether Durkon wants to be changed back is unclear, and even if he is, he might still retain his alignment change.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ooh, full attack with the quarterstaff!

...is maybe not what Durkon would do if he were actually trying to kill them. Especially since he hit Nale and Zz'dtri once each, rather than concentrating his attacks on one of them. He didn't even try the level-draining vampire slam attack -- note the lack of a dark aura.

It feels more like a rebuke than an attempt at deadly force. Which is interesting -- I guess he wants to keep talking? I'm surprised he wouldn't want to immediately revenge Malack; that seems like what evil alignment + encountering people who just killed his friend would add up to. But of course it's hard to really deduce his state of mind at this point.

He's fighting with the quarterstaff because Z could just greater dispel his sun protection like they did to Malack otherwise. It's less optimal than the hammer (though he is getting 1.5x str to damage...), but necessary to make sure he doesn't get destroyed.

Now that they're in combat and its being wielded, nale cannot use sleight of hand to steal the staff (he would have to use Disarm), which is a stupid rule but I hate nale so freaking much that I'm actually glad for it right now.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

What if you were talking about Richard Greyson the original Robin?

[Lvl45DM!]

Intent does matter. Durkon meant it as a swear, not to describe a tree as a female dog.

I was explaining why the filter might let one through as opposed to the other.

EDIT: And failing obviously. I forgot about Richard=****. But theres a food? seriously?

[David Argall]

Now what? Nale and Durkon both have thick plot armor, and Z's is not thin. [He should be killed by V.] And this is a melee fight and Durkon is slow. It isn't easy to see what can happen that won't feel contrived. [Tarquin should not show. That would put him too close to the Nale-Malack fight for his claim of "innocent bystander".] Maybe the LG will just retreat.
But then what? Durkon is now too powerful for the party and there seems no reason to devastate the dwarven lands. [The idea his domains are Death and Destruction is a cheap joke, granted hardly something the strip avoids, but it still seems objectionable under the circumstances.] And the idea of the much strengthened party peacefully heading north? We have 4-500 pages to fill and "slice up monsters" is going to be just a small part of that.

[Thokk_Smash]

I was explaining why the filter might let one through as opposed to the other.

My apologies. I somehow missed Fish's edit about the board not filtering it. My bad

[sam79]

Durkon has always (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html) been the most foul-mouthed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html) member of the party. I don't know where all this, "He swore! He's totally not like Durkon at all!" stuff is coming from.

(Seriously? "****" is supposed to be worse than "bitch"?

...Well apparently the board filter thinks so. I am nonplussed.)

Yeah, for me (a user of British English, for the record) the D word is far stronger than the B word, though both are nearly always very offensive.

But your main point stands. Durkon swearing, even though this might be a stronger word than his usual repertoire, is not out of character.

[Sutremaine]

Also fun to see the benefit that vampire bonuses have in overcoming TWF penalties against a pair of squishy wizards.
Who says he's using TWF? He has the two iterative attacks required to hit both of them with a single end of the weapon.

[dogmac]

I was explaining why the filter might let one through as opposed to the other.

Aaah, but D**k is also short for Richard. Aah, those jolly Enid Blyton novels with D**k, Fanny and George the dog...

[SavageWombat]

Yay! The Accent!

I don't care what the SRD says - Rich has made enough statements about the nature of alignment in this comic that I'll wait to see what we SEE about Durkon's vampiric alignment before giving up on him. I'm betting on trying to stay LG. Possibly failing, but trying.

[Dudu]

I'm not too sharp in rules regarding vampirism, but Durkon loses level of cleric with the vampire LA+ or he just keeps his class levels and adds the template on top of it?

[Goosefeather]

I was explaining why the filter might let one through as opposed to the other.

EDIT: And failing obviously. I forgot about Richard=****. But theres a food? seriously?

Ayup. Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_****) you go! To be fair, even Brits tend to find a puerile humour in the name.

Edit: Well gosh darn it, the filter won't let me post the link properly. Just replace the asterisks with the word and you should be good to go :smalltongue:

[dogmac]

And yes, in said jolly Enid Blyton novels, they could well be eating Spotted D**k, which is delicious.

[Morty]

He's fighting with the quarterstaff because Z could just greater dispel his sun protection like they did to Malack otherwise. It's less optimal than the hammer (though he is getting 1.5x str to damage...), but necessary to make sure he doesn't get destroyed.


More importantly, the staff is what he has in his hands right now, so it's what he's going to use to smack those two d**ks in their faces.

[nmphuong91]

874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Can Durkon be resurrected? Or even better, resurrect himself?

[Jiggs]

Cool, the Giant surprises me every time, well almost.
I anticipated that Durkon would need a moment to find himself again (or his new self) but I would not have guessed Nale and Z trying to hire him ;)

Also: Hurray Durkon is back!!! :) :) :)

[The Zealot]

:smalleek: Durkon said a bad word...

But in all seriousness, it's great to see that accent outta him again. I've missed having him around!

[Forikroder]

Yay! The Accent!

I don't care what the SRD says - Rich has made enough statements about the nature of alignment in this comic that I'll wait to see what we SEE about Durkon's vampiric alignment before giving up on him. I'm betting on trying to stay LG. Possibly failing, but trying.

my guess is hes going to be evil like Tarquin and Malack perfectly sociable reasonable people but with a slightly off moral compass

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm not too sharp in rules regarding vampirism, but Durkon loses level of cleric with the vampire LA+ or he just keeps his class levels and adds the template on top of it?

He keeps his levels and the template is dumped on him. He now has an effective character level of 22, which I think means he could take an epic feat when he next levels up. Of course, he'd need to earn enough experience to actually reach level 23 before he gets his next level, plot device aside.

Speaking of which, I always thought it would be interesting that, if Durkon is shopping around for new Gods, Hel is so excited to have someone represent her will she gives him a couple of free levels. That's wishful thinking though.

[headhoncho]

Just had to post to say, the last panel had me laughing out loud, and internally cheering all the way. :) Great payoff, Giant!

[Angel Bob]

OH MY GOD YES

To be honest, Durkon always bored me prior to this arc. But ever since he met Malack, he's been slowly and steadily winning my support -- even moreso now that a bit of Malack lives on in him. GO DURKON!

[Dudu]

874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Can Durkon be resurrected? Or even better, resurrect himself?

I don't think he'll able to do that. Not before heading to Kraagor's gate, at least.
Remember his prophecy.

[Ellye]

I kinda felt bad for Nale and Z. :smalleek:

[RMS Oceanic]

874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Can Durkon be resurrected? Or even better, resurrect himself?

Yes, then no. Undead beings can be restored to their living selves, but it requires the destruction of their undead forms. Therefore it's impossible for an undead cleric to resurrect themselves.

[Thokk_Smash]

874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Can Durkon be resurrected? Or even better, resurrect himself?

If he scribes a scroll of Resurrection and then is brought to below 0HP, Haley can use UMD to Resurrect him. That requires him to have Scribe Scroll, otherwise they have to find someplace to buy a 7th level divine scroll.

I don't think someone can resurrect themselves while they're still...active, let's say.

[SavageWombat]

Maybe it'll just be played for laughs from here on out.

"Hey, where'd that NPC get to?"
"Oops."
"DURKON!!"

[Panthrax]

Words fail to express the joy to see and hear (in my mind) that accent coming back. I wished, nay, knew that he'd be back. Now is for fun and some serious smackin'!

[tufttugger]

Oh SNAP!

+6 STR for Vamped Durkon! If he was decent at melee before, he'll be smashing a lot more teeth now... and the evil urge to do it at the drop of a hat.

[FlawedParadigm]

Durkon said a bad word!!!

I'm really surprised Giant actually used "****" in the strip but I'm not complaining. We've seen all sorts of evil, torture and genocide and whatnot, it's actually strange we've never seen stronger words. Whatever, it's a minor point.

Are we reading the same comic? The one I'm reading has celestials saying scales are a female dog to calibrate.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes, then no. Undead beings can be restored to their living selves, but it requires the destruction of their undead forms. Therefore it's impossible for an undead cleric to resurrect themselves.

RMS, just out of sheer curiosity (because Durkon doesn't have the levels), but could a wizard|cleric vampire cast:
1.- Time stop
2.- A damaging spell, aimed at himself, powerful enough to kill him
3.- Resurrection-type spell

By RAW, would that work?

Grey Wolf

[Psyren]

I see Durkon remains unchanged in both personality and alignment, unless someone who actually knows D&D rules would like to correct me.

Personality yes, alignment is unclear. Attacking Nale and Z doesn't mean he's good, it just means he haters them as much as he always has (and may possibly hate them more now for killing Malack, despite all Malack has done.)


RMS, just out of sheer curiosity (because Durkon doesn't have the levels), but could a wizard|cleric cast:
1.- Time stop
2.- A damaging spell, aimed at himself, powerful enough to kill him
3.- Resurrection-type spell

By RAW, would that work?

Grey Wolf

No, there's a couple of snags in that sequence.
1) Time Stop doesn't actually stop time - you simply move (and act) extremely fast compared to everyone else. So you can't "hover a spell" like resurrection that would take effect on you when the TS is over - anything you cast on yourself would resolve normally, during the fast-time, meaning that if you killed yourself, you would die before step 3.

2) Most Resurrection-type spells take longer to cast than TS lasts. For those that don't (like Revivify), see (1).

A contingent resurrection might work though.

[Syncrogti]

I see Nale falling over so won't Durkon get an AoO when Nale tries to stand up? I think this means that Durkon can fight Z and get a free attack on Nale which puts him in a great position.

Also, I didn't see the flying teeth until someone else mentioned it. Z also has another scrape on his face.

EDIT: what action could Durkon have taken to make Nale fall over?

[Rogar Demonblud]

As a friend explained Alignment Shifts to me when I was starting out in D&D, Becoming Evil doesn't mean you forget who your friends are. It does mean you'll consider knifing someone while they sleep, though.

[dethkruzer]

Oh, he'll be feeling that in the morning

[Burner28]

Go Durkon!

[Nephrahim]

He keeps his levels and the template is dumped on him. He now has an effective character level of 22, which I think means he could take an epic feat when he next levels up. Of course, he'd need to earn enough experience to actually reach level 23 before he gets his next level, plot device aside.

Speaking of which, I always thought it would be interesting that, if Durkon is shopping around for new Gods, Hel is so excited to have someone represent her will she gives him a couple of free levels. That's wishful thinking though.

I wish, but if gods could give free levels there would literally be no story :)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

EDIT: what action could Durkon have taken to make Nale fall over?

By RAW, the action is called "Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#trip)", but in OotS, there is a homebrewed rule that powerful enough attacks can send you flying (see MitD, Roy's beatdown of Miko, and Belkar's cat attack on the wolf).

Grey Wolf

[luc258]

So, how good are the chances that Durkon wipes the sandy floor with both of them?
He is a fully healed vampire / lvl 14 cleric (if memory serves me right) low on spells with that staff against Nale and Z, who are seriously injured from the explosion and probably low on spells, too.

[SavageWombat]

RMS, just out of sheer curiosity (because Durkon doesn't have the levels), but could a wizard|cleric cast:
1.- Time stop
2.- A damaging spell, aimed at himself, powerful enough to kill him
3.- Resurrection-type spell

By RAW, would that work?

Grey Wolf

Resurrection spells almost always take minutes to cast, longer than the time stop would last.

By RAW, you're getting outside RAW. Think of it in M:TG rules - you can't cast Resurrection (or whatever) on a living being, even if he will be dead in the near future. But D&D doesn't actually use timing issues like that, so it would almost be up to the DM at that point.

Now, there is a spell that allows you to arrange for your own resurrection before your death - Death Pact. So he makes the deal with Hel to let him come back, and then suicides - and she takes care of the raising. However, since the spell targets a living creature and requires 2 points of CON, he's probably disallowed at this point.

[RMS Oceanic]

RMS, just out of sheer curiosity (because Durkon doesn't have the levels), but could a wizard|cleric vampire cast:
1.- Time stop
2.- A damaging spell, aimed at himself, powerful enough to kill him
3.- Resurrection-type spell

By RAW, would that work?

Grey Wolf

No, the quickest resurrection spell takes one minute, five rounds more than you can get with Time Stop.

Contingent Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/contingentResurrection.htm) might work, but we're several levels away from that being viable.

[headhoncho]

So, how good are the chances that Durkon wipes the sandy floor with both of them?
He is a fully healed vampire / lvl 14 cleric (if memory serves me right) low on spells with that staff against Nale and Z, who are seriously injured from the explosion and probably low on spells, too.

At a bare minimum, Durkon is at full HP since vampires have fast healing. And given the art, Nale and Z look REALLY hurt, so on that basis alone, I'd put the odds in Durkon's favor.

My guess is that Nale DDoors away, and Durkon gets his first feast (on darkelven blood, to boot).

[Kish]

RMS, just out of sheer curiosity (because Durkon doesn't have the levels), but could a wizard|cleric vampire cast:
1.- Time stop
2.- A damaging spell, aimed at himself, powerful enough to kill him
3.- Resurrection-type spell

By RAW, would that work?

Grey Wolf
I'm not RMS Oceanic, but no (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm). The damaging spell would go off instantly, affecting no one who was frozen but destroying the vampire wizard/cleric, unless it was a spell like Delayed Blast Fireball which would go off rounds later without regard for the Time Stop. Then the Time Stop would wear off well before the end of the Resurrection's ten-round casting time; if it didn't (because of, e.g., Rich's ruling that a scroll always takes a standard action to cast), the Resurrection would go off immediately (probably killing the vampire itself, actually). Time Stop doesn't hang spells; you'll note that Spliced-Vaarsuvius used Time Stop strictly to buff herself/himself and cast a Delayed Blast Fireball, not attempting to affect the dragon in any way during the Time Stop.

[Sweet'n'Sour]

Is it just me, or is Durkon's accent a little different? More Dracula-like perhaps.

[Xelbiuj]

No, the quickest resurrection spell takes one minute, five rounds more than you can get with Time Stop.

Contingent Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/contingentResurrection.htm) might work, but we're several levels away from that being viable.

Wish.:smallwink:

[tufttugger]

...I suspect Belkar is gonna die before we're done here, Giant already did a number on us with first fakeout. Continuing with Durkon while losing Belkar now would be an even better twist.

He never liked Belkar, I can see him killing the little punk too. Though Roy would talk him out of it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Resurrection spells almost always take minutes to cast, longer than the time stop would last.

By RAW, you're getting outside RAW. Think of it in M:TG rules - you can't cast Resurrection (or whatever) on a living being, even if he will be dead in the near future. But D&D doesn't actually use timing issues like that, so it would almost be up to the DM at that point.

Now, there is a spell that allows you to arrange for your own resurrection before your death - Death Pact. So he makes the deal with Hel to let him come back, and then suicides - and she takes care of the raising. However, since the spell targets a living creature and requires 2 points of CON, he's probably disallowed at this point.

Thank you.

I am feeling munchkin-y, so I took a look at the metamagic feats, and thus I would change the spell sequence to:

1.- Maximized Extended Time Stop (gives 10 rounds)
2.-Quickened Delayed [Big Boom]
3.-Delayed Raise Dead (10 rounds to cast). Target is a body part that was present at the moment of death, which applies to any part of the vampire. The spell will indeed not affect undead, but can target them.

Yeah, I know I'm being silly.

GW

[stsasser]

2 d****, 1 dwarf

It's Durkula time!

Edit: Malack's amulet is lying right there. Don't forget the loot! :haley:

[dps]

I let out a cheer when I saw his accent return.



Oh, yeah!

I figured he'd rumble with the Linear Guild, but I wasn't sure about the accent.

[SavageWombat]

Thank you.

I am feeling munchkin-y, so I took a look at the metamagic feats, and thus I would change the spell sequence to:

1.- Extended Time Stop (gives 2d4 + 2; 50% chance of getting enough rounds)
2.-Quickened Delayed (Big Boom)
3.-Delayed Raise Dead (6 rounds to cast). Target is a body part that was present at the moment of death, which applies to any part of the vampire. The spell will indeed not affect undead, but can target them.

Yeah, I know I'm being silly.

GW

Would it help to cut the body part off first?

[One Skunk Todd]

Awesome! I was expecting Tarquin to make the offer though, not Nale, although I guess that could still happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarquin jumps in if it looks like Durkon is going to kill Nale.

Also, I doubt Durkon would care about Hilgya being married any more. :)

Extra also, I just noticed that Z took more damage and his "WONK" is larger than Nale's, who appears to not have been hurt as much.

[Anne Calie]

Go Durkon!!

He's most likely evil now (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Vampire ),
he's even swearing! But i hope he will still join the Order again.

[Diadem]

Yes, that was awesome.

I'm very curious to see what alignment Durkula ends up with. On the one hand the D&D rules clearly states vampires are always evil. ON the other hand one of the major themes of this comic has always been that free willed creatures can choose their own alignment.

My money is on Durkula still being good, though perhaps less exemplary than he used to be. His cursing is a clear sign of that.

[hamishspence]

Yes, that was awesome.

I'm very curious to see what alignment Durkula ends up with. On the one hand the D&D rules clearly states vampires are always evil. ON the other hand one of the major themes of this comic has always been that free willed creatures can choose their own alignment.

The D&D rules allow for both. A newly turned vampire is "always evil" - but there's nothing, ruleswise, to prevent them from changing alignment.

[SlyJohnny]

I think you're all celebrating prematurely, guys. Just because Durkon remembers past enemies and vendettas doesn't mean he's still "Lawful Good Durkon, Same Classic Favor, Now with Level Adjustment!" He's a vampire. He's evil now. His outlook and goals and the way he relates to people are going to change.

He might still go back to the OOTS and rejoin them, and he might still care enough to help with the gate thing, but even if that happens there's likely to be trouble ahead. And I don't see him voluntarily turning back into a living dwarf, especially since he's prophesized to return to his homeland posthumously.

[Chantelune]

Eh, I was all "oh please no, not Durkon joining the Looser Guild!" And then I saw him knocking those morons in the teeth and was "Frakk yeah !" :smallcool:

Good ol' Durkon. :smallamused:

[nocker]

Great thinking, Nale. Now you have a dwarf vampire on your case.

"Now you will know why you fear the night!"

[TheWolfe]

Yay, Durkon is back! And kicking ass!

My guess is that he will rejoin the Order, but he will become a Knight in Sour Armor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightInSourArmor). He will probably hate himself, and yearn for death, but he will keep going because it is the right thing to do. And Durkon will always do the right thing, even if he secretly longs for something else, such as home or even death. He would simply take those feelings and bury them in a deep dark part of his soul and never talk about them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html). Because that's what he has always done.

Or maybe he goes full Evil and I'm completely wrong.:smallbiggrin:

[Tragak]

Yay, Durkon is back! And kicking ass!

My guess is that he will rejoin the Order, but he will become a Knight in Sour Armor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightInSourArmor). He will probably hate himself, and yearn for death, but he will keep going because it is the right thing to do. And Durkon will always do the right thing, even if he secretly longs for something else, such as home or even death. He would simply take those feelings and bury them in a deep dark part of his soul and never talk about them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html). Because that's what he has always done.

Or maybe he goes full Evil and I'm completely wrong.:smallbiggrin: Or maybe he goes Evil and obeys the Order when they tell him not to do excessively Evil things because his duty to them is more important than what he wants (to a point :smallwink:)

[DOOM2099]

WHOOOOO!!!! YES! YES! KICK ASS!!!!

Back to lurking....

[Messenger]

874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Can Durkon be resurrected? Or even better, resurrect himself?Folks here have pointed out the rules side to this question. Another way to look at it is from the in-story roleplaying side:

Durkon gives the same answer Malack did when such was proposed to him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)


The D&D rules allow for both. A newly turned vampire is "always evil" - but there's nothing, ruleswise, to prevent them from changing alignment.I'm pretty sure that Durkon is truly Evil now, as per the rules; I suspect the "always" in "always evil" isn't particular to newly created vampires but in general- and thus they cannot switch out of that.

I agree with the people who suggested that becoming a vampire may have made Durkon bitter towards Goodness and the Good gods as well. I see him as staying Evil.

[Reks]

Omg I was waiting so impatiently for this strip and I check my feed and there it was xD
I was worried Durkon was broken :c he hadn't moved or said anything at all until the end and then I got this big smile on my face :D Durkons back! ^^
I think he'll still be Durkon but with a splash of badass:smallcool:

[littlebum2002]

OMG! Durkon cursed! I mean, I know he's a vampire spawn of evil who preys on the living, but cursing? Wow.


Also, I beg to differ that his accent is back. It would take someone with far more OCD than I to prove this, bit his accent sounds different. I guess we could try to find instances of him using those words in the past to compare...

[OverdrivePrime]

Bwaaahahahaahahaha! That was outstanding! Go Durkon! http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/mwellenstein/Win/horns.gif

Holy man, I cheered so hard at that last panel!

I'm in the "Durkon's still evil, but more like himself" camp. His posthumous return to his homeland should be very... interesting now.

[Chad30]

First, thank you for the fast update. Second, that was hilarious! I expected them to try to recruit Durkon instead of immediately trying to waste them, since it's been a while since they've had a cleric (that was loyal to Nale), and the title had me worried. Hopefully Durkon won't lose to them.

I'm happy to see the accent is back. We'll see what happens next.

[Dudu]

So, in the end, Nale flawlessly executed a dumb idea.

[luc258]

:nale:With Malack it was always kill or be killed. I choose the former.

He left out Durkon in his whole danger assesment. It's nice that this is now coming back to bite him in the ass (hopefully not literally).

[Balance]

Is it just me, or is Durkon's accent a little different? More Dracula-like perhaps.
He's not used to the fangs yet.

[Porthos]

Elan is Chaotic Good, the most Good-aligned character in the Order, maybe in the comic (possibly tied with Celia).

Haley is Chaotic Goodish.

C'mon. That was 500 pages of character development ago. I think we can drop the -ish, by now, Kish. When it comes to Haley, that is. :smallwink:

---

Gotta admit the first thought I had when seeing the end of this strip was: Durkon's got a potty mouth! :smalleek:

None of his previous outbursts seemed to be as angry/irritated as this one.

He still has a way to go before topping Haley though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html). :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

I suspect the "always" in "always evil" isn't particular to newly created vampires but in general- and thus they cannot switch out of that.

Many "always evil" monsters have switched out of it, in D&D lore.

The description in MM makes it clear that it is possible for an "always evil" monster to change alignment- though it's rare for it to happen.

[DoctorIllithid]

The teeth! The title! Perfection! Oh God, I love it!

[Thokk_Smash]

Folks here have pointed out the rules side to this question. Another way to look at it is from the in-story roleplaying side:

Durkon gives the same answer Malack did when such was proposed to him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)

Malack, from all clues we get, seems to have sought out his vampirism. Even if he did not, he's had 200 years to accept and embrace his vampirism. Durkon's barely had half a day, if that. He can still remember the feel of Malack's teeth in his neck; I doubt he's grateful for being turned into a vampire. Being a vampire isn't his entire identity, so I doubt he'd use that argument to resist resurrection.

[Venom3053000]

Go Durkon!!

[CWH10301964]

Whoa-HOH! Get 'em Durkula!!!
Go Durk! Go Durk!! It's your birthday!!

[LasVegasLawyer]

Interesting that Durkula's speech bubble is still black, even before he attacks. After Malack was revealed to be a vampire, he only had black speech bubbles when vamping out (red eyes), but Thrall!Durkula's bubbles were always black.

[Doug Lampert]

If he scribes a scroll of Resurrection and then is brought to below 0HP, Haley can use UMD to Resurrect him. That requires him to have Scribe Scroll, otherwise they have to find someplace to buy a 7th level divine scroll.

Item making can be cooperative. V and Durkon can combine to scribe a scroll of a spell Durkon knows.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Durkon is my new Vampiric Hero.

[Ivrytwr]

Go Durkon, go!
Wonder why Nale thought that was going to work? Evil doesn't mean one big happy family, for example: the previous strip!
Starting to dread the reunion with the OotS.

[Thokk_Smash]

Item making can be cooperative. V and Durkon can combine to scribe a scroll of a spell Durkon knows.

Cross-discipline? That is, an arcane caster can scribe a divine scroll with assistance? That'd be cool, but I thought an arcane caster still could only scribe an arcane spell.

[HandofShadows]

Yea! Durkon is still in there! :smallcool:

I wonder if part of the reason is that Malack made no attempt to wipe away the person that was originally there. He kept Durkon in thrawl, but had every intent to release him once they got back to the city.

And here we go to normal with Nale totaly screwing up. :smallbiggrin:

Hey, do we get a Vampire Durkon smily now? :smallconfused:

[Doug Lampert]

Cross-discipline? That is, an arcane caster can scribe a divine scroll with assistance? That'd be cool, but I thought an arcane caster still could only scribe an arcane spell.

I know of no rule that an arcane caster providing the scribe scroll feat changes the nature of the scribed scroll. Any prerequisite can be provided by any participant, so if Divine character is needed to scribe a divine scroll then Durkon can provide that prerequisite.

The SRD says:
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

So designate Durkon as the creator while V provides the prerequisite feat, but even that's not neccessary by the book, there's simply no rule on that says the scroll is not of the same type as the character providing the spell rather than someone else in the group.

Edited to add SRD quote and correct details.

[Porthos]

I just realized why having Durkon swear there is so important.

While he might have used the occasional bad word in the past, it wasn't a part of his character as others. At least not to me.

But here we are, all waiting to see what Durkon 2.0 is like. What sort of personality does he have? What his is outlook? What does he want from (un)life?

We had no idea just what this new and improved(or not) Durkon was like once he came back to being free-willed.

And what's one of the very first things he does? Swear at an opponent. A real life one. In anger. It could be a sign that this Durkon is a bit rougher around the edges than the old one.

Now it is just a sign. But, well, when lots of people are looking for signs about what is different about this Durkon, of course it is going to stand out.

I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't designed to be picked up on and commented by us.

[Math_Mage]

Nale's competence in defeating Malack bred overconfidence, which led to stupidity in letting Durkon get the drop on him for no reason. And the cycle continues...

[Wardog]

I'd also point out, Durkon isn't the only member of the Stick to swear:

Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html)
Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) (assuming "crap" is still considered swearing these days).
Belkar again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html)
Roy (again) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html)
Celia (almost) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0268.html)
Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0396.html)
Twice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0398.html)

(And I got bored looking after that).

[Porthos]

I'd also point out, Durkon isn't the only member of the Stick to swear:

Oh, it's happened quite a bit. Not the point, I was making though. :smallwink:

[jidasfire]

For people questioning why Durkon is using physical attacks instead of magic here, I don't think it's to be nice. Remember, Z is particularly vulnerable to physical hits and tough against magic, so Durkon's new vampire strength would be extremely effective. As for Nale, well, Nale's never been great enough at anything for it to matter. As long as an opponent can do damage, Nale's going to take said damage. Better to bludgeon him to death and save spells for that sand elemental and the fiends, if it comes to that.

[BroomGuys]

I literally cheered at that last line. This is the best strip ever. Squee.

[Thokk_Smash]

For people questioning why Durkon is using physical attacks instead of magic here, I don't think it's to be nice. Remember, Z is particularly vulnerable to physical hits and tough against magic, so Durkon's new vampire strength would be extremely effective. As for Nale, well, Nale's never been great enough at anything for it to matter. As long as an opponent can do damage, Nale's going to take said damage. Better to bludgeon him to death and save spells for that sand elemental and the fiends, if it comes to that.

Plus, he's out of useful combat spells save for Thor's Might; though I guess he could burn a spell to use an Inflict, since he channels negative energy now. But Z has SR and Nale has that elixir active still, so physical attacks were probably the way to go.

[Goosefeather]

OMG! Durkon cursed! I mean, I know he's a vampire spawn of evil who preys on the living, but cursing? Wow.


Also, I beg to differ that his accent is back. It would take someone with far more OCD than I to prove this, bit his accent sounds different. I guess we could try to find instances of him using those words in the past to compare...

As pointed out before, Durkon has previously used the terms 'wanker' and 'bitch', plus 'crap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html)', 'bugger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0872.html)', and probably a bunch more, so this isn't completely without precedent.

And different how? It's Scottish, same as before. 'Aye (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html)', 'ye (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0002.html)', 'tha (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html)', 'o (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html)' - this is his standard vocabulary.

[Saturosian]

*whew*! Another title fake-out! I saw "Always hiring", and I knew exactly what Nale was going to try (shout out to this comic? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)) and I was afraid that there wouldn't be enough of Durkon left to sway Durkula. Especially when he just stood there with the kinda blank expression on his face. I'm so glad I was wrong.

For what it's worth, I think it makes sense that ex-thrall Durkula would have a lot of similarities to pre-vamped Durkon. I mean, this way Malack would have been able to keep his new friend, and I can see him finding that meaningful, when he wanted 'a brother more than another child.'

Great strip! The last half of this book has been a string of spectacular strips.

[JennTora]

Bitch can at least be an accurate technical description where as the D word is always crass

Untrue, **** can also refer to a detective, in england it is synonymous with bloke in some areas, which seems to mean "guy" and of course it can be a nickname for Richard.

I don't think the cursing means Durkon is necessarily evil as such.Personally, I think dying would change anyone, In fact I don't get why most people don't think about that with their characters, and why it's never really mentioned as a roleplaying tip... Roy changed a bit too, he seemed happier after he came back. Durkon is now a vampire, so he probably figures a swear word is innocent compared to having to feast on the blood of yhe living.

[Temporal Echo]

On the topic of teeth, does anyone feel that the blow to the mouth is going to affect/restrict Z's spell casting? I think that due to this Durkon might not have to worry about being dispelled and therefore avoid the risk of being ash pile #2 or have to spend any of the charges left on the staff.

[Spoomeister]

Yay, Durkon is back! And kicking ass!

My guess is that he will rejoin the Order, but he will become a [He would simply take those feelings and bury them in a deep dark part of his soul and never talk about them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html). Because that's what he has always done.

My goodness, that very early comic really foreshadowed this. "Too big and bright in human lands" indeed. Perhaps he hurries back home so he can hide out in a dwarven mine the rest of his days...

[Green Dragonfly]

I just thought of something weird for the next strip.

What if Durkon kills Nale? It would definitely be a good way to cement his alignment change to the audience. And it would be pretty ironic, too, as Nale would have gone through all that trouble to save himself from being killed by Malack - only to accidentally bring about his own death by doing so.

Ehh, probably not gonna happen, though.

[GreyHound]

I thought for a second, that the comic would be about Team Evil, at the next gate, since :xykon: is always hiring too. But I liked this outcome better.

Durkon looked awesome smacking LG with that staff!

[Sith_Happens]

Gosh Durkon, watch the language. Just because you're Evil now doesn't mean you can starting swearing left and right.:smalltongue:

[Karen]

Was getting creepy with him just standing there, but I guess he needed time to assess his situation.

His fiend is still his.... But what happens to Malack's fiend? How much is Durkon going to know about the staff's abilities? Is there something in there useful against a Si elemental?

[Michaeler]

Evil opposite!

Durkon gains fangs, so Z loses teeth.

[Nenec]

I loooove him more then ever, just sayin'.

"Aye, mebbe I haf changed. But tha two o' ye're still the same old *****!"
is now one of my favourite quotes!

[faustin]

Nale and Z should consider themselves lucky if Durkola doesn´t turn them into his thralls.

[WindStruck]

So much for "always evil". Use some common sense and don't just gawk at the rules. He may well register as evil, but his tendencies ought to be exactly the same. Only when he has to cope with the needs of his vampirism might he have to make some concessions and shift a little bit...

[Shale]

Was getting creepy with him just standing there, but I guess he needed time to assess his situation.

Yeah, he doesn't need to do silly things like breathe anymore. No reason to move the meat around if he's just thinking.


His fiend is still his.... But what happens to Malack's fiend?

Malack doesn't have a fiend. One is Durkon's and the other is Zz'ditri's.

[RMS Oceanic]

On the topic of teeth, does anyone feel that the blow to the mouth is going to affect/restrict Z's spell casting? I think that due to this Durkon might not have to worry about being dispelled and therefore avoid the risk of being ash pile #2 or have to spend any of the charges left on the staff.

I like that theory.

"Gerter dishpail majjik" *Fizzle*

[Doug Lampert]

The big problems with the "Durkon makes a scroll of Resurect, then is staked, then brought back by Haley with UMD" are:

In Story Problems:
1) We have as far as I know no evidence whatsoever that Haley or Elan has even 1 rank in UMD (see class and level geekery).

2) Does Durkula want to go back to being Durkon?

Out of Story Problems:
3) AFAIK the skill has never even been mentioned in comic, for non-D&D fans who don't read the forum having Haley suddenly able to raise the dead or use scrolls would be a total ass-pull by Rich. It doesn't follow from ANYTHING we've actually seen. "Oh yeah, I can totally use that by rolling a 33 or higher on my use magic device skill we've never even mentioned before".

4) Rich has mentioned resurection magic making storytelling harder, why would he go out of his way to make it front and center of an arc? Seriously?