Assassin's Creed Style RPG

[Zancloufer]

After playing and beating the first Assassin's Creed game I ran the idea past my players of a future campaign being something akin to Assassin's Creed. Now I've only played the first one and heard some things about the others, but the concept and setting none the less are interesting and I think it can be done in a 3.5e style setting, with some variant rules used.

Now the biggest thing that bothered me was the 20v1s you can (and eventually HAVE to) get into, and routinely beat the crap out of them.
Now there are a few big things I want to change to make 3.5e like it (aside from a custom setting):

1) Variant rules: Wounds and Vitality and Armour as DR. This will make combat extremely lethal, but make large hardy characters in heavy armour able to shrug off light blows like they're nothing. Players will have to play smart, and abuse tactics and first strike options to stay on top. Any other good variant rules or changes you'd suggest to them?

2) Restricted classes. I'm thinking of a very low magic setting, so much so that things like Warlocks, Paladins (and maybe Truenamers) are extremely rare. +2 items would be practically artifacts in how often you can get a hold of them. Even thinking of making all the PCs little more than the Commoner class at first and they have to join a guild, or find a teacher to learn PC classes.
On that note I need to restrict classes that they can even learn from to start with. Thinking : Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Rouge, Martial Adpets (Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader), Knight, and not sure what else. Minor supernatural esque powers aren't bad, just any real casting. Any other classes I missed that would not only be practical but fit the low magic theme?

3) Changing the crafting rules. There any detailed crafting rules for making stat boosting gear, and more than masterwork weapons without magic? I have some ideas but if there was a variant rule for that, it would work to. Nothing powerful, but it would be nice to have some simple +1-2 stat/save/ac boosting enhancements, or ~+5-10 skill items.

Also last thing, using things like Wounds and Vitality are there any suggestions to DMing such a lethal game without making everything a cake walk, or one bad roll away from a TPK?

[Ninja_Grand]

Heads up, any ToB class is magic out the yin yang. Also, dont touch truenamers with a stranded issue ten foot pole

[limejuicepowder]

Heads up, any ToB class is magic out the yin yang. Also, dont touch truenamers with a stranded issue ten foot pole

Really? You're really gonna drum up that one again? The only outright magical effects are from shadow hand and desert wind (even in those schools, most are completely magic-free)....and I suppose an argument could be made for some of the devoted spirit maneuvers, but even then I could think of a few mundane ways to fluff them. Everything else is straight-up martial prowess, nothing magical about it.

On the subject of the OP: You might want to take a look at E6. It works really well for grittier, low magic type of settings where the heroes are powerful but not laughable so; even the strongest have to worry about large crowds of enemies, or falling, and other more mundane threats.

[Crasical]

Heads up, any ToB class is magic out the yin yang. Also, dont touch truenamers with a stranded issue ten foot pole


Minor supernatural esque powers aren't bad, just any real casting.

Even if you're in the camp that ToB is magic, I think it would be a stretch to call their abilities 'real casting'.


Even thinking of making all the PCs little more than the Commoner class at first and they have to join a guild, or find a teacher to learn PC classes

I wouldn't, really. The general assumption is that though adventurers where probably commoners at one point, they start off having learned the basics of their trade. The 1st level game is hard and bloody enough on PCs without making them further useless.

[RFLS]

Heads up, any ToB class is magic out the yin yang. Also, dont touch truenamers with a stranded issue ten foot pole

The Swordsage is the only class that is generally playing around with explicitly magical effects. Warblade and Crusader are capable of being entirely mundane, with very little effort.

I will agree about the truenamers.

@OP: There are no rules for the crafting you suggested, but I believe Pathfinder has a feat that you could quite easily import to allow mundane characters to craft magic items. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Elricaltovilla]

The Swordsage is the only class that is generally playing around with explicitly magical effects. Warblade and Crusader are capable of being entirely mundane, with very little effort.

I will agree about the truenamers.

@OP: There are no rules for the crafting you suggested, but I believe Pathfinder has a feat that you could quite easily import to allow mundane characters to craft magic items. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Its craft magical arms and armor. They removed the magic prerequisites from the feat and allow you to ignore any 1 prerequisite for crafting the item (for example, the spells) by increasing the DC by 5.

[Ninja PieKing]

add in swashbuckler and the ranger variant without magic

[RFLS]

Its craft magical arms and armor. They removed the magic prerequisites from the feat and allow you to ignore any 1 prerequisite for crafting the item (for example, the spells) by increasing the DC by 5.

Hm? It requires a caster level of 5. No, the feat I was thinking about was Master Craftsman. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final)

[Kuulvheysoon]

There's also the Weapon of Renown/Legend crafting feats that somebody made for the Avatar d20 homebrew system.

And I'd agree with the camp that says Desert Wind, Devoted Spirit and Shado Hand have to be used with caution if you want to avoid (Su) effects.

[SowZ]

Also, if you are gonna allow monk, for the love of the gods give them d10 HD and full BAB. Please.

[RFLS]

Also, if you are gonna allow monk, for the love of the gods give them d10 HD and full BAB. Please.

Or just use a swordsage.

In seriousness, at the very least follow SowZ's suggestion. Another, very common one, is to allow them to use Str or Dex for to-hit and damage however they want.

[Crasical]

Or just use a swordsage.

In seriousness, at the very least follow SowZ's suggestion. Another, very common one, is to allow them to use Str or Dex for to-hit and damage however they want.

... if that was an option, why would you ever use strength over dex?

[RFLS]

... if that was an option, why would you ever use strength over dex?

Tripping builds would be a very good reason.

[SowZ]

... if that was an option, why would you ever use strength over dex?

In case you roll stats or use a high strength race. Seriously, though, the only class more mad than monk is paladin. Anything to mitigate that is a + in my book.

[Petrocorus]

Or just use a swordsage.

In seriousness, at the very least follow SowZ's suggestion. Another, very common one, is to allow them to use Str or Dex for to-hit and damage however they want.

Or Wis, so to make them SADder. There are already feat and PrC class features which gives Int or Wis to hit, and without any magical explanation. The AC bonus of the monk seems to be mundane to me. So they could use Wis because they use their mental prowess to enhance their fighting.

[mabriss lethe]

I have a different idea. Don't massively homebrew 3.5. It really doesn't sound like what you need.

Refluff Starwars SAGA rules for a low tech environment. (either limiting access to or stripping out Force powers entirely. or not. some of the force powers could easily be refluffed as mundane abilities) It'll take some looking over and a few common sense adjustments, but it's something I've been considering for a while now.

[Darth Stabber]

Outside of e6 "low magic" games tend to be really wonky and unbalanced. Add to that the other variant rules you are using and things can get messy in a hurry. "Low magic" works in e6 from my understanding, but I have no data of my own to back this up.

ToB classes are only likely to be a problem if all your players are very newbish, and then they can seem too good due to their high optimization floor, but players who know a thing or two won't have major issues. With the right feat choices and tactics a fighter or barbarian can pound them into the dirt. Claims of being "too magical" make no sense for warblade, crusader is not fluffed as such and even if you see it as such just consider it an alternate (actually decent) paladin, and swordsage can avoid the magical bits easily, and even the magical parts make perfect sense in light of monk's existence. Unarmed swordsage does everything you could ever want monk to do, and does it well. Other than a dip for bonus feats, monk is complete s***. Do yourself a favor and forget is exists.

As far as actually playing this style of game, there was a thread I started a few years ago to that end, found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-190537.html). It covers similar ground to what you are looking to cover.

[karkus]

In regards to #1, Unearthed Arcana had a whole bunch of variant rules on having armor that is worn grant some DR, not just AC.

5 levels of ranger also opens up the opportunity to gain fighting skills and stealth abilities, although not as good as Fighter or Rogue, respectively.

Very minor AC2 spoiler (has almost nothing to do with story; just some in-game lore):Depending on the setting, time, etc. in relation to AC1, the Rangers might also get a second hidden blade to use.

Also, what are you using as hidden blades? I know that a Punching Dagger (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Punching_Dagger) combined with Quick Draw (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Quick_Draw) can accomplish the same thing, but Complete Scoundrel has all sorts of various hidden blades for use.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The gnomish quick razor is a pretty good option to emulate the hidden blade.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

Might want to look at the Master Class from dragonlance war of the lance book, it can make non magical skill boosting items up a +10 bonus and masterwork weapons with a +5 bonus to hit.

[Thrudd]

You need a feat: "Leap of Faith" - You can jump safely from any height as long as there is a haystack below you large enough to conceal you. :smallsmile: