Two Weapon Fighting Feat Build

[Xanti]

I am trying to optimize/semi-optimize a character for someone else.

Here's what I need: A list of feats up to level 20 to take that would make for a respectable two-weapon fighter.

Here's what I have to work with: She is a homebrew class that gives two-weapon fighting and improved two-weapon fighting. The class has a fighter's base attack progression and revolves around a specific set of a longsword and shortsword. I doubt I can convince the DM to change the size of these swords so oversized two-weapon fighting probably won't work.

All published material is free game.

Keep in mind, I don't need races, classes, or anything other than feats. Everything else has already been decided.

[xkaliburr]

I would say that weapon focus on your weapons would be handy at early levels. See if your DM would allow you to do specialization.

[Segev]

If she has sneak attack, or is willing to spend feats on it, picking up Craven for the +1 damage per character level per sneak attack hit is a good choice. From Champion of Ruin.

If she doesn't have it natively but is willing to invest to get it, Martial Study for a Shadow Hand maneuver (I suggest the one that lets you turn Greater Invisible as a swift action for one round per combat) and then Martial Stance for Assassin's Stance (+2d6 sneak attack) can get her there.

Leadership for a bard cohort with Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic, I believe) will give her +1d6 damage per +1 inspire courage her bard cohort normally would give. Also shares that with the whole party.

Maybe see if you can talk your DM into letting the specialized class count as Fighter levels for Weapon Specialization in long- and short-swords; that's 2 feats to get both, but it's +2 damage per hit with whichever she's specialized in.

Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization are also viable (if not necessarily overwhelming) if you can count this class as Fighter for them.

Hidden Talent for Dimension Hop seems popular to get a teleport that can help bring you in range for a full attack when you don't start the round in melee.

[BowStreetRunner]

Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting are obvious.
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery are usually key as they overcome the attack penalty and beef up your damage. But here you have a problem - two different weapons. You would actually be better off with a pair of short swords than with one long and one short. (I have this vague recollection of a class somewhere that allowed you to apply feats to both weapons as if they were the same, which would certainly help.) Knowledge Devotion is another option that doesn't rely on the weapon type, but requires knowledge skills.
Two Weapon Pounce, Dual Strike, and Double Hit are all great ways to get extra attacks when not doing a full attack action.
If Tome of Battle is allowed, Martial Study: Wolf Fang Strike can offer another standard-action multiple attack option and lead into Martial Study: Blood in the Water which is fantastic for a TWF build.

[Darrin]

Shameless Plug: TWF OffHandbook (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15034585).

I tend to prioritize TWF feats as such:

TWF
Travel Devotion
Improved TWF
Combat Reflexes
Double Hit
Robilar's Gambit
Greater TWF
Travel Devotion (x2, x3)

[Irk]

Flay Foe and Two weapon rend for extra damage, reliant on you hitting the opponent with both weapons.

[Petrocorus]

But here you have a problem - two different weapons. You would actually be better off with a pair of short swords than with one long and one short. (I have this vague recollection of a class somewhere that allowed you to apply feats to both weapons as if they were the same, which would certainly help.)


This is the Tempest from Complete Adventurer; but it requires Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack. You'd better take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting or Monkey Grip to solve the problem.


Knowledge Devotion is another option that doesn't rely on the weapon type, but requires knowledge skills.


I second this. Knowledge Devotion is one of the best gish feat and combine well with Power Attack.


Two Weapon Pounce, Dual Strike, and Double Hit are all great ways to get extra attacks when not doing a full attack action.
If Tome of Battle is allowed, Martial Study: Wolf Fang Strike can offer another standard-action multiple attack option and lead into Martial Study: Blood in the Water which is fantastic for a TWF build.

Getting Shadow Blink maneuver or taking the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC can allow you to teleport-pounce.

[Grayson01]

Or the Character can use two longswords and Take Oversized two-weapon fighting (Oversized Two-weapon fighting makes your off hand always be counted as a light weapon).


Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting are obvious.
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery are usually key as they overcome the attack penalty and beef up your damage. But here you have a problem - two different weapons. You would actually be better off with a pair of short swords than with one long and one short. (I have this vague recollection of a class somewhere that allowed you to apply feats to both weapons as if they were the same, which would certainly help.) Knowledge Devotion is another option that doesn't rely on the weapon type, but requires knowledge skills.
Two Weapon Pounce, Dual Strike, and Double Hit are all great ways to get extra attacks when not doing a full attack action.
If Tome of Battle is allowed, Martial Study: Wolf Fang Strike can offer another standard-action multiple attack option and lead into Martial Study: Blood in the Water which is fantastic for a TWF build.

[Tathum]

Here is an old PC I had back in the day, eventually skipped to another Prime Material and became king of his own kingdom. He was a pure beast, especially with his gear (Two +8 Bastard Swords and a Ring of Wraithstrike toward the end). Along with his Rogue friend, nothing could stand up to them physically; especially with the Mage and Cleric there to debuff. His whole point was to hit often and do as much damage as possible. About the only thing I didn't have (but wanted) was perfect two-weapon fighting

Switch out some stuff to fit your character accordingly (mine had a high dex and strength to start and most +stats went to strength). Get rid of Cleave and Power attack if you don't have a high strength to make use of them and Leadership and Awesome Blow if your DM won't allow (my guy was big to begin with and I convinced my DM on Awesome Blow as its not all that powerful, just alot of fun).

1st – Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) / Two-Weapon Fighting / Over-Sized Weapon Fighting
2nd – Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
3rd – Power Attack
4th – Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
6th – Improved Two-Weapon Fighting / Improved Initiative)
8th – Greater Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
9th – Improved Critical (Bastard Sword)
10th – Cleave
12th – Great Cleave / Greater Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
14th –Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
15th – Powerful Charge
16th – Improved Bull Rush
18th – Weapon Supremacy (Bastard Sword)/ Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
20th – Vexing Flanker
21st – Overwhelming Critical (Bastard Sword)
22nd – Epic Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
24th – Devastating Critical (Bastard Sword) / Epic Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
26th – Extended Life Span
27th – Two-Weapon Rend
28th – Penetrate Damage Reduction (Adamantine)
30th – Dire Charge / Awesome Blow

[eggynack]

Has the world crumbled to a state of anarchy and insanity such that weapon focus and weapon specialization are worthwhile feats? They seem to still be terrible, especially when compared to the amount they're being suggested. If I really had to go two weapon fighting, which I wouldn't, for I am a man who possesses volition, I'd probably go with something akin to Darrin's build. Either that or a swordsage. I'd generally avoid anything that provides a strictly numerical bonus, though knowledge devotion might give one that's high enough if you have the resources to empower it. If you run out of good feats that directly empower your two weapon fighting ability, that's not a sign that you should start taking bad feats that directly empower your two weapon fighting ability. It's a sign that you should start considering a secondary shtick, and that shtick depends on what the class has, class feature wise.

Honestly, from the limited description from the OP, this class sounds unfortunately similar to the CW samurai, which is not a good thing to be compared to. If this thing has actual class features, that's a thing we should know about in order to give advice, and if it doesn't have class features outside of free TWF, full BAB, and some swords you get at first level, this compares unfavorably to the samurai. It's really not the kinda thing that you'd want a class to compare unfavorably to, given that it's almost certainly the worst PC class in the game. So, either this thing should have features that can be augmented, or it should probably get some.

[herrhauptmann]

Here's the jack b quick build. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick It requires fighter20 to do, but you can probably just cherrypick your favorites.


Has the world crumbled to a state of anarchy and insanity such that weapon focus and weapon specialization are worthwhile feats? They seem to still be terrible, especially when compared to the amount they're being suggested. If I really had to go two weapon fighting, which I wouldn't, for I am a man who possesses volition, I'd probably go with something akin to Darrin's build. Either that or a swordsage. I'd generally avoid anything that provides a strictly numerical bonus, though knowledge devotion might give one that's high enough if you have the resources to empower it. If you run out of good feats that directly empower your two weapon fighting ability, that's not a sign that you should start taking bad feats that directly empower your two weapon fighting ability. It's a sign that you should start considering a secondary shtick, and that shtick depends on what the class has, class feature wise.
I agree with you on weapon focus, but in the right build it's actually pretty decent. (Jack b quick) But only because it's needed for prereqs. I really wish that complete scoundrel had offered ways to get weapon focus via "locations as treasure" instead of iron will.

If out of feats to take, I'd recommend travel and knowledge devotions, and the mageslayer tree.

[eggynack]

I agree with you on weapon focus, but in the right build it's actually pretty decent. (Jack b quick) But only because it's needed for prereqs. I really wish that complete scoundrel had offered ways to get weapon focus via "locations as treasure" instead of iron will.
Well, sure, prerequisites can grant folks a lot of leeway in terms of how bad their feats can be, but a lot of the builds are also using weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, and greater weapon specialization, which is somewhat harder to justify. Melee weapon mastery and weapon supremacy just aren't worth this pain. If the odd specific weapons thing isn't a crucial aspect of the class, the chain from Oriental Adventures might be worth looking into. That way tripping can be added onto the whole AoO double hit thing. The fact that you have to choose between it being a double weapon and a reach weapon is a bit weird though. I hadn't noticed that the last time I looked into it.

[Urpriest]

In general, it depends completely on what the class itself gives you. Does it give you some form of free movement? Does it give you bonus damage, and do you have to do anything special to qualify for it? What sort of fighting style does the class encourage, besides TWF?

If all the class is doing for you is restricting your weapon choices or giving small numerical bonuses, after all, you wouldn't have picked it. What, qualitatively, does the class change about your character?

[Katana1515]

would not normally suggest it as its PF, but since you are homebrewing already, you might ask your DM to consider letting you take Piranha Strike. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/piranha-strike-combat

I have seen it really up the damage on dex based TWF builds where power attack is not an option.