Rogue/Fighter Equipment [3.5]

[Beelzebub1111]

So, I'm building an X-Crawl Character. 7th level. Rogue 5/Fighter 2. 32 point buy. Want him to be a combat rogue. Strength is highest stat followed closely by con then dex and int. For his feats I went up the whirlwind attack line and have one feat left open. I'm thinking a two handed weapon but I'm open to suggestion. I'm "meh" on spiked chains since I don't have the improved trip or disarm feats yet.

I have 19,000gp for equipment. What would you advise I get for him? Magic Item Compendium is available. I would like to give him some kind of magic helmet or mask, but it isn't necessary. I'm basing his style around a Kamen Rider.

[Galvin]

Are you going to dual wield? That might be a little feat extensive, if I do say so myself, and you are looking low on feats as it is. If you wanna do two handed, might I suggest the following? In an AEG supplement called Mercenaries there is a weapon presented called the Flamberge.

Flamberge: Martial
2d8 slashing 19-20/x2
two-handed

As you can see, it's pretty good for a martial weapon. Nice damage.

[Beelzebub1111]

Official 3.5 stuff only. No, I'm not dual-wielding. I'm thinking of a highly mobile strong and fast warrior.

[IronFist]

Get a scarf. Kamen Rider needs a scarf.

Get the items that boost sneak attack:
1- Organripper dagger (castle greyhawk adventure) is +1d6 sneak attack for around 3k. Add deadly precision (it will cost around 6k) for another +1d6.
2- Mantle of the Predator (MIC), +1d6 sneak attack for 8k. It's part of a set that includes a mask, so yeah.
3- Bracers of the Hunter (secrets of xendrik) is another +1d6 for around 8.5k plus other bonuses
4- Rogue's Vest (MIC) a tad expensive at 18k, but assorted bonus to skills and +1d6 sneak attack.

Invest in movement, as well. Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker + Quicksilver Boots (both from MIC) means you get a load of movemenet as free/swift actions. Chronocharms are very cheap, buy several of them if you can.

If you want mobile and fast, you should also invest in movement skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel. Consider Thief-Acrobat, as well.

[herrhauptmann]

+1 for Chronocharms. Most of them are like 500gold, and you can wear them all at once (only one of each though). How much of a miss chance do the quicksilver boots give you when you move?

For shoes though, I'd recommend steadfast boots if you're going for a two handed weapon. So long as you've got a two hander, you're automatically set against charges, even if the weapon can't be set normally. Like I dunno, a spiked chain.
So someone charges you, you get a set attack against them at double damage as soon as they enter your reach. And if you've got more reach than them (via spiked chain), you get to use an AOO as they leave that first square.

Spiked chain doesn't require the use of disarm/trip to be a great weapon. In fact, if you're not building for disarm/trip specifically (I don't think you are) then they're sort of wasted feats.

There's also boots of the mountain king. They don't give you extra movement, but they do let you ignore rubble and difficult terrain. And run/charge downhill without worry. That'll save you from needing to buy as many skill tricks.

[Beelzebub1111]

Get a scarf. Kamen Rider needs a scarf.
Actually I'm basing his appearance on Kamen Rider Wizard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Wizard_%28character%29), so he has a bad-ass coat instead.



Invest in movement, as well. Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker + Quicksilver Boots (both from MIC) means you get a load of movemenet as free/swift actions. Chronocharms are very cheap, buy several of them if you can.

If you want mobile and fast, you should also invest in movement skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel. Consider Thief-Acrobat, as well.
Great suggestions all around. I was looking at the sidestepping armor enhancement, but the Boots and Chronocharms are much better. In fact I might take Grand Master and Fateweaver as well.

The steadfast boots are pretty tempting, too.

Any advice on armor?

[IronFist]

Armor depends on how high your Dex is, really. Probably a mithril chain + dastana.

EDIT: About your build, I'd drop Whirlwind Attack. It sucks and the requirement feats suck as well. You can get a version of it as a ToB maneuver, via Martial Study or a Warblade dip, though, if you really really want it. If you want mobility and multiple attacks, I'd advise using Double Hit (from MiniHB, requires TWF), Snap Kick (ToB, unarmed only) or Planar Touchstone: oxyrynchus (Planar Handbook, only works against flat-footed enemies but works with any weapon and since you're a Rogue getting them flat-footed should be your game anyway).
I see you want to use a two-handed weapon, but since you already mentioned a Kamen Rider feel, Improved Unarmed Strike is an option (specially with Bracers of Striking, since it costs only ~1.3k. With that, you can take all aforementioned feats. Halberd + kick to the face sounds badass. :smallbiggrin:

[Darrin]

For his feats I went up the whirlwind attack line and have one feat left open.


I'd recommend against this. You can get Whirlwind Attack 3/day for only 8300 GP (+1 enhancement, MIC p. 46).



I'm thinking a two handed weapon but I'm open to suggestion.


Try greatsword (primary) + armor spikes (offhand). That gives you the best of both worlds (THF + TWF). If you want Power Attack on both your primary and offhand, try Improved Unarmed Strike as your offhand.



I'm "meh" on spiked chains since I don't have the improved trip or disarm feats yet.


Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (Unearthed Arcana/SRD) is an excellent way to pick up Improved Trip without bothering with Combat Expertise. You can also get Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem, Complete Champion) and Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana/SRD) while you're at it.



I have 19,000gp for equipment. What would you advise I get for him?


Have you consulted with Shax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) yet?



Magic Item Compendium is available. I would like to give him some kind of magic helmet or mask, but it isn't necessary. I'm basing his style around a Kamen Rider.

Hmmm... best I can come up with that's insectile-ish is the Spider Mask from City of the Spider Queen Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020907a), but it's not all that impressive for 7K.

[herrhauptmann]

Armor depends on how high your Dex is, really. Probably a mithril chain + dastana.


If the DM allows you to break down specific magic items, there's something I use in a few games.
And so that I can google it easier, I'll title it: herrhauptmann's celestial metal breakdown.


Initial breakdown of winged shield:

Winged Shield

This round heavy wooden shield has a +3 enhancement bonus. Small, feathered wings encircle the shield.

Once per day it can be commanded to fly (as the spell), carrying the wielder. The shield can carry up to 133 pounds and move at 60 feet per round, or up to 266 pounds and move at 40 feet per round.

Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly; Price 17,257 gp
Cost of MW shield is 157.
Cost of +3 enchantment is 9000.
Therefore, cost of the fly enchantment is 8100 gold

Which is needed to break down the celestial armor.

Celestial Armor

This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of -2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
Price: 22,400


+3 armor costs 9000gold.
Fly should be same cost as the shield. Same Caster level and spell. Beyond that, any difference in effect is probably a result of being imported from prior editions. 8100
So the cost of the metal itself is 5400 gold for what is normally a medium armor.

Having broken down the Celestial armor, we now compare it to MW Chainmail.

MW Chainmail. 5 armor. 2 Max Dex. -4 ACP. 40 pounds. 20/15 movement. 30% ASF. Cost: 300
Nonmagic Celestial Chain. 5 armor. 8 Max Dex. -2 ACP. 20 pounds. 30/20 movement. 15% ASF. Cost: 5400

Which means that making any medium armor from celestial metal improves the max dex by 6, the ACP by 2 (compared to MW steel, or 3 for non-MW ), is half the weight, and reduces weight category by one just like mithral. It also reduces ASF by 15% (or reduces it to half, not sure but probably the former)


Further extrapolation of price.
Medium Celestial armor is 5250 (if we take the normal assumption that the MW component cost is included in material cost). Or 1.3125 times the cost of the mithral medium armor which it most closely resembles.
Therefore, light celestial armor would probably cost 1312.5+armor, and heavy celestial armor would probably cost 11812.5+armor cost.

[Beelzebub1111]

Dex is only 14, so even non-mythral chain wouldn't encumber me. Just making it masterwork would be enough as far as Armor Check Penalty goes. And I don't think My DM will allow breakdowns.

[IronFist]

I strongly recommend getting that Dex higher.

[Beelzebub1111]

Probably a good idea. I'll pick up a bow as backup, too. Take advantage of those proficiencies.

[DMVerdandi]

Are you sure about this whole build?
Rogue 5/Fighter 2? That just...nah, bruh, you can do better, unless you are restricted to core. I am assuming you aren't because you really wouldn't be able to do much of what you want with just core, and if you are in a just core game, get out nao. (Hate restrictive DM's...)

ANYWAY.

I think you could do much better with your build.
Now, if you aren't going the twf route, then you are going to still need a source where you can get all of those attacks off from. I am going to show you two alternative builds.



Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Feat Rogue 6
This one is more roguish by far. You simply trade in your sneak attacks for fighter feats. Some might say this is the weaker of the two, and generally they would be right. HOWEVER, the skills are still extremely high, so instead of being a backstabber, you can get into some alternative routes of fighting. Perhaps Archery or something else.

It is better than your build however, because of pounce, and it looses less of those class based benefits.


Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Factotum1/Sneak attack Thug 5.
This is the far more martial of the two. It is not really concerned with dodging or any of that stuff. Its concerned with having high bab, pretty good HD, and having full sneak attack damage. Moreover, it still has pounce, and about two more hd per level.
While you won't have a high amount of skill points, that level of factotum, combined with the able learner feat will allow you to purchase all skills as class skills.
Continue on with the thug to gain higher and higher BAB,HD,and sneak attacks.




Why do I start them with barbarian? Because it's just that good, pounce.
Not taking that first level of barbarian for a melee build is like not taking natural spell for a druid in my opinion.

If none of mine appetize you, You can continue on the normal route just fine.
Just take Barb1/Rog5/Ftr1 instead.



On the equipment thing, I would suggest an elven sword(Thinblade, lightblade or courtblade). They are pretty darn decent and qualify for a host of feats only reserved for lighter weapons and such. They can all be finessed, and usually qualify as other weapons as well.

A belt of hidden pouches is pretty decent. Goggles of lifesight will keep people from getting the slip on you.

Also carry a survival pouch.


Hell, I'd try to make my own legacy weapon. Something you can evolve with.

EDIT: If you want a bow, I'd pick up a light crossbow with a quick loading enchantment. Better than a regular bow IMO.