Wonderworker Thought

[ZamielVanWeber]

Okay, so if cleric 17 took 3 levels of wonderworker, would it be worth it? You have the feat tax in Practiced Spellcaster, but in return you end up with no 9th lost, 3 bonus 8th and a bonus 7th to toy with. And 3 exalted feats (for better or for worse).

[Psyren]

You get two extra 8ths that way. This is because the Wonderworker can only apply one of its bonus spells to its highest spell level.

Here's the breakdown, showing top level spells (assuming you enter Wonderworker at ECL 18, and put any excess bonus spells to 8ths):

{table=head]Level | Pure Cleric | Cleric/Wonderworker
17 | (8th:) 2+1 (9th:) 1+1 | (8th:) 2+1 (9th:) 1+1
17+1 | (8th:) 3+1 (9th:) 2+1 | (8th:) 3+1 (9th:) 2+1
17+2 | (8th:) 3+1 (9th:) 3+1 | (8th:) 5+1 (9th:) 3+1
17+3 | (8th:) 4+1 (9th:) 4+1 | (8th:) 6+1 (9th:) 4+1
[/table]

The feats are a wash. Sure, you gain 3 Exalted Feats, but you burn 3 feats getting in (FotC/KoS/SotH + 1 other exalted, and Practiced Spellcaster.) There unfortunately aren't enough good exalted feats to justify that expenditure, at least to me, and a pure cleric won't need Practiced Spellcaster.

Still, 2 bonus 8ths is a nice benefit. But, as far as the other PrCs you could be taking to finish off a cleric build, you can probably get more out of others.

[T.G. Oskar]

Wonderworker is better after 20th level, IMO.

One of the key aspects of Wonderworker is that it grants bonus spell slots in a small package. By Epic level, spellcasting classes don't grant any more spell slots, and BAB/save progressions are meaningless (you gain the same progression no matter what). Thus, only class features are valuable.

While Cleric 17 nets you access to all Cleric spells, Wonderworker requires you to drop two points of BAB in exchange for a slightly higher Will save (one 2 points higher). You're also limited to one 9th level spell per level of Wonderworker, which isn't that good.

After Epic, however, you gain the same progression of BAB and saves, so spending 1 more level in Cleric is somewhat meaningless. However, at 21st level, you can get Improved Spell Capacity, which nets you 10th level spell slots. Based off your readings, you could get a bonus 10th level spell and spend the rest on 9th level spells, maximizing your gains while minimizing your losses; Practiced Spellcaster only becomes somewhat meaningful after 20th level, and is best used to cover for some loss of CL, so you're even saving feat slots.

In short: get it before and get only 3 9th level spell slots, or access it after Epic and gain lots of 9th level spell slots and some of the higher level ones (which can be used for metamagic)? The same goes for Dragon Disciple (and if you have Oriental Adventures, Eunuch Warlock), and any other class that grants bonus slots.

One final thing: if DCS is viable in your table, you can use Wonderworker to leapfrog certain feats. Not sure if you can DCS epic feats from the bonus exalted feats (or if it can be done at all), but if you can do it, that's yet another reason why to get to it post-Epic levels.

[ZamielVanWeber]

That leaves it in the domain of rounding out things like Apostle of Peace and Emissary of Barachiel. Fine by me ultinately. I was just hoping it had more potential.