[PF]Of Hellknights and Red Mantis Assassins - Design, pacing and expectations

[IronFist]

Hello, guys.
I'm currently running a very light Pathfinder game, with a few beginner players. It's mostly a change of pace from my other game, full of intrigue and entangling plot lines.
For this light game, I had them do a bit of simple dungeon crawling in the first session. Easy fight with some zombies, followed by saving a village from a goblin tribe (with troll support). Standard stuff, nothing too hard. It was a pretty good session.
Now they are coming back to Korvosa and I plan on a more urban session. I want to use the Hellknights and the Red Mantis Assassins, simply because I like them. I imagined something like one of the assassins using the party to get at the Hellknights (frame them for a crime, help the Hellknights arrest them, knowing the party will escape and cause them damage).
My question is: isn't it too soon to do that? I want them to feel empowered, I want them to feel adventurers. Sending a high level assassin to beat the crap out of them doesn't help with that. Should I just use the sendo session to introduce both the assassins and the Hellknights?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Was a bit confused, initially. I got Korvosa mixed up with Sargava (Why would Hellknights be on Sargava?).

My only problem with what your idea is that the Red Mantis Assassin wouldn't accept a job to frame the party of a crime, and would probably be offended to even be asked to do that kind of job. And yeah, I wouldn't send Red Mantis after the players yet. Once you do, you can't really take it back. Jobs aren't accepted by members as much as they are accepted by an organization, who will not stop until they've completely their job.

[IronFist]

Thing is, it wouldn't be a job. It would be the Red Mantis Assassins actively acting against the Hellknights (as part of a bigger job, of course) and using the players as pawns. I mean, the players wouldn't be their target.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Thing is, it wouldn't be a job. It would be the Red Mantis Assassins actively acting against the Hellknights (as part of a bigger job, of course) and using the players as pawns. I mean, the players wouldn't be their target.But again, they only ever do skullduggery if it gets them to their target or protects their identity. Skullduggery isn't a side job, or part of a job for them. No stealing documents. No blowing up castle gates, no framing other people of some crime. Red Mantis agents kill people. Anything else (that doesn't help them honor the Mantis god by killing people) is beneath them.

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing where framing the players for some crime to distract a few Hell Knights is an efficient way to try and get to their targets. I'm also not sure what the party would be able to do against this kind of thing. Neither organization is one you want to (or can) directly confront.

[IronFist]

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing where framing the players for some crime to distract a few Hell Knights is an efficient way to try and get to their targets.
The target is the Hellknight's leader.

[Squirrel_Dude]

The target is the Hellknight's leader.I kind of figured that it was. Still not sure how a few Hellknight's going after the party is going to make the region's commander any easier. Would the commander be sending out his elite guard to deal with this problem?

What could the agent be framing the party for that would draw that much attention, especially at that low of a level of a party?

[IronFist]

Okay, but why would they frame random adventurers for it. Why not frame some other organization's member. That would accomplish more.

Because otherwise there would be no adventure, of course. Dealing with other organizations might get them enemies, as well.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Because otherwise there would be no adventure, of course. Dealing with other organizations might get them enemies, as well.*I realized that, edited my post to ask a different question.*

I'll continue in this post by being rude and suggesting a change of story. Remove the Red Mantis as the organization that's framing them. Instead make it so that this is done by a third party. Let's give it the original title of The Undergound.

- The Underground is tired of this Hellknight leader, so tired and desperate that they hire the Red Mantis (who want some obscene payment for this kind of job)
- The Underground doesn't want to pay and instead has the party deliver a payment (which isn't the actual payment or something)
- The Red Mantis now start to target the party as the source or the payment, and they NEVER do a job without getting paid.

This would mean that leader still dies (cause the Red Mantis end up getting paid, and they ALWAYS do their job), but the players are off the hook for having to fight either of those organizations, but one weak and desperate enough to hire the Red Mantis.

[IronFist]

The players are level 5, they are not actually super low level.
I don't want the leader to die (he could die or not), I just wanted to have some intrigue, the Red Mantis, the Hellknights and a classic "escape from prision" scene.

[Squirrel_Dude]

The players are level 5, they are not actually super low level.
I don't want the leader to die (he could die or not), I just wanted to have some intrigue, the Red Mantis, the Hellknights and a classic "escape from prision" scene.And I just want to make it work so that you can have that without the players feeling like they need to directly confront either organization.

If you want them to escape from prison, just make it so that the player's are arrested for causing a public disturbance when they fight the Red Mantis because they can't pay them. The Mantis agent would have disappeared of course. Then the players have to escape because they need to clear their name and settle a score.

I'm just throwing ideas out. The two organizations are cool, I just wouldn't want to have to fight them as a player.