Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons

[Ruethgar]

Is there a way to make a natural weapon count as unarmed strikes?

[Rubik]

Is there a way to make a natural weapon count as unarmed strikes?I know there's a feat that allows slam and claw damage to add to unarmed strikes. It's called Bestial Strike, from Dragon #335.

For more info: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207912

What do you need it for, exactly?

[Namfuak]

Iirc, Sharn Monks have an act that uses their spikes as unarmed strikes.

[Darrin]

Is there a way to make a natural weapon count as unarmed strikes?

Not really, although a liberal-minded DM might allow something wacky with a Necklace of Natural Weapons + Morphing property.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[Ruethgar]

Full flurry of blows(would actually go with flailing since it isn't as restricted) in addition to natural attacks. If I get my claws to be treated as special monk weapons would it work the same? Or would it just allow me to substitute claw for unarmed strike but still not use natural attacks in addition to a flurry?

[Rubik]

Full flurry of blows(would actually go with flailing since it isn't as restricted) in addition to natural attacks. If I get my claws to be treated as special monk weapons would it work the same? Or would it just allow me to substitute claw for unarmed strike but still not use natural attacks in addition to a flurry?Well, since flurrying is a full-attack action, you can add your natural attack routine to the end of it. Say you have two claws and one bite. Use your feet for your flurry, then claw/claw/bite at a total of -5 penalty.

That, or use Beast Strike to add your claw damage to your unarmed strike damage.

[Ruethgar]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070410a seems to suggest differently. I could add claw damage to unarmed via beast strike either way, even if I can get claws to be used as unarmed attacks, it would just double the damage.

[Darrin]

Well, since flurrying is a full-attack action, you can add your natural attack routine to the end of it. Say you have two claws and one bite. Use your feet for your flurry, then claw/claw/bite at a total of -5 penalty.


The Flurry rules restrict you to only using unarmed strikes or special monk weapons during a Flurry. Unfortunately, there's no clear indication by the rules if secondary natural attacks are part of the Flurry or if they happen after the Flurry.

There may be a few work-arounds, though. If you have access to the Dragon Compendium, then the Unorthodox Flurry feat can be used to make a light weapon count as a special monk weapon, and natural weapons count as light weapons.

[OOPWER]

There may be a few work-arounds, though. If you have access to the Dragon Compendium, then the Unorthodox Flurry feat can be used to make a light weapon count as a special monk weapon, and natural weapons count as light weapons.

So, I go with a Tashalatora Monk/PsyWar build, then I could conceivably use the various claw transformations as monk special weapons? Or would these natural weapons have to be natural natural weapons?

[TomeGnome]

If we're talking PF rules, then just take Feral Combat Training. It has a couple prereqs, but nothing too taxing. It'll just be a huge feat chain if you plan on making multiple nat attacks count as unarmed strikes.

In any case, the note at the bottom specifically states "Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat

[Mithril Leaf]

Not quite the path you wanted, but you can just get a flurry number of attacks by taking one level of Maho-Bujin from Oriental Adventures. It lets you get an iterative from every 3 BAB points, as opposed to 5.

[Darrin]

So, I go with a Tashalatora Monk/PsyWar build, then I could conceivably use the various claw transformations as monk special weapons? Or would these natural weapons have to be natural natural weapons?

The rules for natural weapons don't differentiate between claws you were born with or claws that appeared via psionics or other means. Unorthodox Flurry (claw) would let you use them for Flurry of Blows or as secondary attacks on a round that you use Flurry.

Another work-around would be Shou Disciple 3 (Unapproachable East), which lets you Flurry with any light melee weapon.

The only caveat with Tashalatora is some of the psionic powers don't allow them to be used with other attacks. For example, claws of the beast can't be used if you attack with any other weapon, natural or manufactured. There are lots of other ways to get claws, though. If you can get the dragonblood subtype, then Shape Soulmeld: Claws of the Beast is probably the easiest. A two-level dip into Totemist gets you four claws via Girallon Arms.

[Rubik]

The only caveat with Tashalatora is some of the psionic powers don't allow them to be used with other attacks. For example, claws of the beast can't be used if you attack with any other weapon, natural or manufactured. There are lots of other ways to get claws, though. If you can get the dragonblood subtype, then Shape Soulmeld: Claws of the Beast is probably the easiest. A two-level dip into Totemist gets you four claws via Girallon Arms.You could, however, use Beast Strike to add your psywar claw damage to your unarmed strike damage and make unarmed strikes in lieu of claw attacks. Then you can make more attacks on top, assuming you have multiple other natural attacks to go along with them. Wouldn't do much for flurry, I guess. (Just don't put any stock in the FAQ, Rules of the Game, etc, since they get it wrong as least as often as they get it right.)

[Ruethgar]

Ok, got it. Dragonwrought kobold cheese not 100% needed but helps with Wyrm of War, Chaos Shuffle is a must. Temple Swordsman monk background from Quentissential Monk, forego all weapon proficiency, even from multiclassing, for proficiency in and special monk weapon privileges for one weapon(claw).

Arctic Kobold: Monk4/Barb1/Lock2/Cleric1/Frostrager2/Reserve Mage5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147086)/Lock1/Hellfire Lock3/Scout1
Chaos Temple Swordsman Monk 4 levels
Shuffle Race1: Intuitive
Shuffle Race2: Fire Elf Bloodgift
Flaw: Dragon-wrought Kobold
1st: Power Attack
Shuffle Monk1st: Flying Kick
Shuffle Monk2nd: Reckless Offensive
3rd: Circle Kick
Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 level
6th: Lightning Fists
Cloistered Cleric with Metal and Planning Domains and Knowledge Devotion 1 level
Shuffle Devotion: Sanctum Spell
Shuffle Metal1: Snap Kick
Shuffle Metal2: Frozen Berserker
9th: Beast Strike
12th Eldritch Claws
Shuffle Reserve: Rapid Strike
Shuffle Reserve: Shape Soulmeld(Strongheart Vest)
Reserve Mage: 5 feats that can be shuffled away or you can get nifty reserve feats. I might suggest extra rage for a couple at least.
Reserve Mage5: Dimensional Jaunt
15th: Open(currently extra rage)
18th Improved Rapid Strike


So that should get a pretty decent number of attacks and all of them doing eldritch blast damage of 11d8x2.

Edit: Removed the last warlock level since it did nothing and added scout for a +1d6 damage. If yo are dimensional jaunting per round as a swift action, skirmish is your friend, wish I had worked it in better.