Vampires and Resurrection [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Newwby

2013-08-04, 06:05 PM

If Durkula so chooses, could he cast resurrection upon himself to return to a living state?

(I'm of the opinion this won't happen due to the prophecy but the thought popped in to my head)

Ewig Custos

2013-08-04, 06:07 PM

No, he can't. Oots can kill Durkula and then ask another priest to resurrect him, however.

Roland Itiative

2013-08-04, 07:08 PM

To be more specific, a vampire needs to be destroyed in order for his living self to be revived. So Durkon would be in no position to cast spells in a situation where he can be resurrected.

KillianHawkeye

2013-08-04, 10:13 PM

To be more specific, a vampire needs to be destroyed in order for his living self to be revived. So Durkon would be in no position to cast spells in a situation where he can be resurrected.

To be more general, ALL undead creatures must be destroyed before the person who they once were can be brought back to life.

FujinAkari

2013-08-05, 01:44 AM

veti

2013-08-05, 04:31 AM

No, he can't. Oots can kill Durkula and then ask another priest to resurrect him, however.

Or... Durkon could write a scroll of Resurrection, then dust himself, and Haley or Elan could cast the spell.

In theory, anyway.

Just sayin'.

CRtwenty

2013-08-05, 04:37 AM

Or... Durkon could write a scroll of Resurrection, then dust himself, and Haley or Elan could cast the spell.

In theory, anyway.

Just sayin'.

I don't think either of them would have a high enough Use Magic Device skill for this to actually work. We haven't seen either of them actually using that skill as far as I can recall.

The Pilgrim

2013-08-05, 05:43 AM

Durkon can scribe a scroll of resurrection, kill himself, and then any cleric can use the scroll to resurrect him.

Kish

2013-08-05, 06:10 AM

I don't think either of them would have a high enough Use Magic Device skill for this to actually work. We haven't seen either of them actually using that skill as far as I can recall.
We have seen Haley use scrolls of Sending and, for those of us who have read Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails, Teleportation, actually.

Sylian

2013-08-05, 06:58 AM

Does Durkon even have Scribe Scroll? I'd be inclined to say that he doesn't, but we can't know for sure at this point in time, can we?

Skarn

2013-08-05, 08:09 AM

Or... Durkon could write a scroll of Resurrection, then dust himself, and Haley or Elan could cast the spell.

In theory, anyway.

Just sayin'.
That won't work. They have to meet all requirements of the spell to begin with(besides actually knowing the spell), and neither of them can use healing spells.

Belkar can (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), technically. But I'm pretty sure he doesn't meet the other requirements by far.

Kish

2013-08-05, 08:16 AM

They have to meet all requirements of the spell to begin with
Use Magic Device.

JSSheridan

2013-08-05, 08:35 AM

That won't work. They have to meet all requirements of the spell to begin with(besides actually knowing the spell), and neither of them can use healing spells.

Elan can cast healing spells, but they are arcane magic. Resurrect is divine only, but Belkar still could not because it's not on his spell list.

DeliaP

2013-08-05, 08:37 AM

That won't work. They have to meet all requirements of the spell to begin with(besides actually knowing the spell), and neither of them can use healing spells.

Belkar can (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), technically. But I'm pretty sure he doesn't meet the other requirements by far.

Belkar can (in principle) cast Cure Serious Wounds from a scroll because it is on the Ranger's spell lists. Resurrection isn't, so he wouldn't be able to cast it from a scroll, no matter how much his wisdom got boosted.

Edit: Oh! I got ninja'd! (First time! :smallsmile:)

Kish

2013-08-05, 08:39 AM

That won't work. They have to meet all requirements of the spell to begin with(besides actually knowing the spell), and neither of them can use healing spells.

Belkar can (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), technically. But I'm pretty sure he doesn't meet the other requirements by far.
Neither divine vs. arcane, nor healing vs. no healing, matters for being able to use a Resurrection scroll. The requirement you're looking for, is "have Resurrection on class spell list."

But, again, I'm pretty sure what veti was getting at with Haley and Elan was the Use Magic Device skill, which is a class skill for rogues and bards, and which Haley has demonstrated.

Skarn

2013-08-05, 03:15 PM

Neither divine vs. arcane, nor healing vs. no healing, matters for being able to use a Resurrection scroll. The requirement you're looking for, is "have Resurrection on class spell list."

But, again, I'm pretty sure what veti was getting at with Haley and Elan was the Use Magic Device skill, which is a class skill for rogues and bards, and which Haley has demonstrated.
Well, Resurrection is a Divine spell anyway so :p

But yeah, I actually didn't know you could do that with a scroll. :smallredface:

So it seems as long as Haley can do it with a 7th level spell, she's set. If they decide to go that route.

JennTora

2013-08-05, 03:46 PM

rodneyAnonymous

2013-08-05, 04:02 PM

Incorrect you all. In the SRD under undead traits.

Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType

Yeah, they can affect the remains of an undead creature, Check the rules for those spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm): "You can resurrect someone [...] who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed." (emphasis added)

JennTora

2013-08-05, 04:26 PM

Yeah, they can affect the remains of an undead creature, Check the rules for those spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm): "You can resurrect someone [...] who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed." (emphasis added)

And the undead traits part does not say it has to be the remains. It says undead creatures, not dead undead creatures or destroyed undead creatures. Note that it specifically says raise dead and reincarnate do not affect them. This is all vague wording, but the spells don't specifically Say it doesn't work this way, and undead traits part says it does this way.

Also: www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html

Durkon says he intends to resurrect malack, says nothing about destroying him first. Malack says "stake me instead" rather than Something like "just leave me dead after staking me."

rodneyAnonymous

2013-08-05, 05:45 PM

The Undead Type description is ambiguous about whether the undead creature needs to be destroyed first, but the resurrection spell description is not.

v v fixed, sorry

JennTora

2013-08-05, 08:50 PM

The Undead Sub-Type description is ambiguous about whether the undead creature needs to be destroyed first, but the resurrection spell description is not.

I don't consider the undead type description ambiguous at all. It says if you cast resurrection on an undead creature it returns to life.

What's ambiguous is that neither description really comments on the other. The res description does not clarify, it says nothing on how targeted undead are affected, only how destroyed ones are. That being said it would be silly to bother putting that in there when there is no sane reason at all that anyone could possibly think that a true resurrection wouldn't work on the remains of an undead. It would also be quite unnecessary to add that clause to the undead type if that were the case. Not to mention that the remains of an undead creature are not an undead creature, so there'd be no reason to add that under the undead type.

And you didn't even comment on the posted comic.

KillianHawkeye

2013-08-06, 06:58 AM

Undead is a Type, not a Subtype. /nitpick

Lord Vukodlak

2013-08-06, 05:37 PM

I don't consider the undead type description ambiguous at all. It says if you cast resurrection on an undead creature it returns to life.
Your misunderstanding the text. What the undead type is saying is when an undead creature is killed and you use resurrection it restores the target to life rather then bring it back as an undead. When talking about elementals and outsiders who require a true resurrection they don't point out they have to be dead first.

The resurrection and true resurrection spells reinforce that by saying "undead creatures can’t be resurrected."
Further more the target of a raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection is a dead creature. An undead creature is not "dead" and thus not a valid target for the spell.

But to answer the OP's question... Can our dear vamprie dwarf cast cast resurrection on himself in order to restore his life? Only if Rich says he can because he picks the story over the rules... so I'm going to guess either no or won't

JennTora

2013-08-06, 05:47 PM

Your misunderstanding the text. What the undead type is saying is when an undead creature is killed and you use resurrection it restores the target to life rather then bring it back as an undead.

The resurrection and true resurrection spells reinforce that by saying "undead creatures can’t be resurrected."

Hm... has that ever been clarified in errata or something? because it still seems questionable as is.

Person_Man

2013-08-08, 02:17 PM

Durkula can Resurrect the recently destroyed Malak. Malak is a high level Lawful Cleric, who clearly liked and respected Durkon. Malak also hates Nale for obvious reasons, and OotS is the enemy of the Linear Guild. In exchange for his life and the support of OotS against Nale, Malak agrees to Resurrect Durkon.

Problem solved?

Yuki Akuma

2013-08-08, 02:28 PM

This won't happen. While "post mortem" could technically include dying and being resurrected, the Giant has been working on this plot point since the fourth strip.

No way it's going to be over quickly.

rodneyAnonymous

2013-08-08, 05:18 PM

Hm... has that ever been clarified in errata or something? because it still seems questionable as is.

Not as far as I know; seems crystal-clear to me, and this is the first time I've heard anyone claim it's not.

Durkon can resurrect the recently-destroyed Malack.

No he can't. Malack has been dead for over 200 years, and the time limit for resurrection is 10 years/level. Durkon would need at least 21 cleric levels.