(3.5) Tanuki by Green Ronin - who stated this thing?!

[gurgleflep]

I'm looking through a book called Jade Dragons and Hungry Ghosts (Green Ronin Publishing) and have come across the Tanuki. Now as a big-time fan of badgers and the like, I'm happy to have found it but it's stats as a character seem a bit awkward, caused a bit of confusion, and now I've got some questions for you guys.
Would somebody please be so kind as to provide a normal stat block? If that's not a legal method, I don't know what to do :smallsigh:

[Flickerdart]

Green Ronin is known for some horribly thought out material, including some negative LA templates that provide nothing but bonuses to spellcasters.

[gurgleflep]

Green Ronin is known for some horribly thought out material, including some negative LA templates that provide nothing but bonuses to spellcasters.

This is the second less-than-a-minute reply I've seen you do :smalleek:
I've noticed they aren't the best with their publishing, but I like their stuff.

[Rhynn]

Can you elaborate on what the problem is? Otherwise, you're limiting yourself to people who have the book, which is going to be a much smaller pool of helpers.

[Crasical]

Tanuki aren't really badgers.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Tanuki aren't really badgers.

These tanuki are badgers, they even have the badger subtype.

[Raven777]

Badger is a subtype?

[NeoPhoenix0]

It is now. They are humanoid, and instead of giving them the tanuki subtype they gave them the badger subtype.

What's hilarious is that a badger bane weapon doesn't work on normal badgers.

[Raven777]

What... but... how... why.

/aneurism

[NeoPhoenix0]

What... but... how... why.

/aneurism

...I got another one...

On another note, I have no clue what the tanuki character should get, but ferocity and rage every time you take damage seems to much for a character. It could be taken that a character just gets the specified stat increases and great fortitude bonus feat. It could also be interpreted that they get that and the rage, ferocity, and scent. It's kinda confusing.

[gurgleflep]

Can you elaborate on what the problem is? Otherwise, you're limiting yourself to people who have the book, which is going to be a much smaller pool of helpers.

They don't have a traditional "as a character" stat block like
+2 STR, -2 INT.
Medium
Yada
Yada
Yada.

They have a paragraph saying "If the DM allows it, they may be played as a race. They have a +1 to strength, +2 to Dex..." and we know that they're small - outside of that, it's very limited knowledge you're basically working off of their monster block. How they've got it set up and the +1 bit is what's got me so confused.


...I got another one...

On another note, I have no clue what the tanuki character should get, but ferocity and rage every time you take damage seems to much for a character. It could be taken that a character just gets the specified stat increases and great fortitude bonus feat. I could also be interpreted that they get that and the rage, ferocity, and scent. It's kinda confusing.

I know what you mean >_< Green Ronin's got some cool stuff, but the way they put things together is absolutely atrocious!

[Rhynn]

They have a paragraph saying "If the DM allows it, they may be played as a race. They have a +1 to strength, +2 to Dex..." and we know that they're small - outside of that, it's very limited knowledge you're basically working off of their monster block. The +1 bit is what's got me so confused.

Yeah, that's non-standard, to say the least.

Otherwise, though, deriving their PC info from the stat block should be easy, unless the example tanuki has class levels.

Generally, you get ability score adjustments by deducing 10 from even scores and 11 from odd scores (so if a standard creature has Str 13, Dex 14, and Int 7, it has +2 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Int as adjustments).

You get any racial hit dice, which have a standard amount of skill points depending on type (the racial HD class skills are the skills listed in the stat block, even if they have no points assigned to them in the stat block); but humanoids with 1 racial HD exchange it for their first class level instead.

The big question, I guess, is whether a level adjustment is given.

edit: Oh, and I guess you may need to decide their favored class. /edit


I know what you mean >_< Green Ronin's got some cool stuff, but the way they put things together is absolutely atrocious!

I assume Green Ronin published books written by various authors. Indifferent editing compounding bad writing. (Not that WotC doesn't put out books full of plain bad rules-knowledge, like... Dragons of Faerun, was it?)

[NeoPhoenix0]

No level adjustment anywhere, and they are humanoid with 1 HD.

Edit: And their favored class is bard.

Edit 2: for the curious their abilities:

Monster block abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 9, Cha 12

PC adjustments: +1 STR, +2 Con, +1 Cha, -2 Int, -2 Wis

[gurgleflep]

If you go through that method of their abilities (and I understand it right), they come out to +2 STR, +4 DEX, +4 CON, -2 WIS, and +2 Cha.
As for their favored class, it specifies bard - holy hells, they got something specific!
Great fortitude as a "bonus feat" at first level in addition to what they normally have, they're small with low-light, able to burrow, a +3 natural armor, if they get hurt they go barbarian in their next round - repeat if wounded again, and ferocity... Gods, this is annoying :smallannoyed:

[Rhynn]

Monster block abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 9, Cha 12

PC adjustments: +1 STR, +2 Con, +1 Cha, -2 Int, -2 Wis

Well, that suggests they had an array of 15 13 12 12 11 11...

I think the writer was just completely unaware of the "proper" way to stat creatures (no levels: array of 11 11 11 10 10 10, drop Int to 1-2 as appropriate for animals; NPC class levels: array of 13 12 11 10 9 8; PC class levels: elite array of 15 14 13 12 10 8).

This is a screw-up that a DM would have to clear up if they wanted to allow tanuki PCs (or create tanuki NPCs for that matter). The lack of level adjustment is a bit of a big deal, too. Is this book 3.0 or 3.5?


Great fortitude as a "bonus feat" at first level in addition to what they normally have, they're small with low-light, able to burrow, a +3 natural armor, if they get hurt they go barbarian in their next round - repeat if wounded again, and ferocity... Gods, this is annoying!

That sounds pretty straightforward to me, actually.

For instance, if I wanted to make a skum PC (bad idea, but whatever), looking at the skum (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/monstersS.html#skum), I'd get...


Medium Size.
Aberration type, Aquatic subtype.
2 racial HD; racial skills: Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Swim.
Land speed 20 ft., swim speed 40 ft.
+2 natural AC,
A bite/2 claws natural attack routine (2d6/1d4).
Darkvision 60 ft.
Amphibious.
Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +0 melee, damage 1d6+2. A skum also gains two rake attacks when it attacks while swimming.
+4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Spot checks underwater.
Ability Score Adjustments: Str +8, Dex +2, Con +2, Cha -4.

[NeoPhoenix0]

according to amazon it was published in 2001 so 3.0

[gurgleflep]

It doesn't specify whether it's 3.0 or 3.5, just that it's a d20 game.

It makes no sense to me, but at least somebody's got an idea for how it works :smallsigh:

Ignore this, Neo answered it - I don't know the years for the various editions.

[NeoPhoenix0]

It doesn't specify whether it's 3.0 or 3.5, just that it's a d20 game.

It makes no sense to me, but at least somebody's got an idea for how it works :smallsigh:

Ignore this, Neo answered it - I don't know the years for the various editions.

3.5 core books came out in july 2003. Anything before that was 3.0, but a number of books leading up to it in early 2003 tried to anticipate changes, so sometimes they are called 3.25.

[gurgleflep]

3.5 core books came out in july 2003. Anything before that was 3.0, but a number of books leading up to it in early 2003 tried to anticipate changes, so sometimes they are called 3.25.

I'm writing that down, I'll forget otherwise. Thank you :smallsmile:

Is all of Green Ronin publishing this bad? I've only looked through a couple.

And, because it's relevant and why not:
I made this!
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/085/f/9/badger___oots_by_bobbobbbbob-d5zeu5y.jpg

[NeoPhoenix0]

Mandatory badger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI) link.

[CRtwenty]

I'm writing that down, I'll forget otherwise. Thank you :smallsmile:

Is all of Green Ronin publishing this bad? I've only looked through a couple.

And, because it's relevant and why not:
I made this!
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/085/f/9/badger___oots_by_bobbobbbbob-d5zeu5y.jpg

Nah, you're looking for something more like this. :smallwink:
http://www.shakespeare-w.com/japanese_lessons/wp-content/uploads/01_tanuki_okimono.jpeg

Honestly, having a hulked out version of one of those coming at me would be a lot scarier than a regular badger. :smalleek:

[gurgleflep]

Mandatory badger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI) link.

I thought of doing that in my first post, but didn't - I'm glad somebody did :smallbiggrin:


Nah, you're looking for something more like this. :smallwink:
http://www.shakespeare-w.com/japanese_lessons/wp-content/uploads/01_tanuki_okimono.jpeg

Honestly, having a hulked out version of one of those coming at me would be a lot scarier than a regular badger. :smalleek:

That looks pretty awesome ._. I'd do my best not to turn bag and hug it while running away and purposefully fail my will save.

Where were we..? Oh yeah, tanuki! Back to the main point of the thread!! What should their stat block actually look like?

[DeltaEmil]

They should have the option to use their humongous balls as a backpack, or a pair of drums, when they party around.

Also, whenever they polymorph/shapechange/alter their form/change shape into a humanoid, they always have extremely big testicles in male form, or very big breasts in female form (making it easier for experts to recognize them when knowing what signs to look for).

[NeoPhoenix0]

They should have the option to use their humongous balls as a backpack, or a pair of drums, when they party around.

Also, whenever they polymorph/shapechange/alter their form/change shape into a humanoid, they always have extremely big testicles in male form, or very big breasts in female form (making it easier for experts to recognize them when knowing what signs to look for).

These tanuki do not shape shift, bringing into question the writers ability to do research.

[CRtwenty]

These tanuki do not shape shift, bringing into question the writers ability to do research.

They could just be regular Tanuki that have been awakened or something. http://bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tanuki.jpg

Anyway if you're looking for something more usable, the "Badger" Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures is right up your alley. Since it's essentially the mythological Tanuki as a race.

[CyberThread]

oi save yourself a headache, just go use OA, lots of lovely wierd creatures in that book.

[NeoPhoenix0]

They could just be regular Tanuki that have been awakened or something. http://bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tanuki.jpg

Anyway if you're looking for something more usable, the "Badger" Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures is right up your alley. Since it's essentially the mythological Tanuki as a race.

good suggestion, although the tanuki is still much more badgery with ferocity and rage.

[Ashtagon]

Nah, you're looking for something more like this. :smallwink:
http://www.shakespeare-w.com/japanese_lessons/wp-content/uploads/01_tanuki_okimono.jpeg

Honestly, having a hulked out version of one of those coming at me would be a lot scarier than a regular badger. :smalleek:

I dunno. Crotch shot will take down one of those easily.

[DeltaEmil]

I dunno. Crotch shot will take down one of those easily.The mythical raccoon dogs are famous for having balls of iron. They drum on them during parties, and rock hard (especially when they get drunk). Tanukis are a lot like fantasy dwarves. They drink a lot, they party a lot, they fight a lot (slapping each another with their testicles). Also, they store their stuff between them. Cause giant balls, that's why. Their crotches are anything but a weak point. In some stories, tanukis even use their giant balls to crush innocent peasants (and then eat them), so that they can then steal their stuff, and shape-change into the victims to continue stealing stuff, like more alcoholic beverages, and fool the wives of the victims, and do some nasty with them, all those wives being positively surprised about how much more virile their husband has become, until they wake up and find all their rice, money, wine, and cloths stolen, and only a leaf proving that the man yesterday was a shape-shifting trickster animal.

[gurgleflep]

Sadly, I've not got OA on me at the moment or Hengeyokai would likely be the one I go with. Aside from that, the DM doesn't like OA for some reason - an avid anime watcher that dislikes Asian culture spilling into his medieval fantasy? Makes no sense!!
I'll see if I can convince him to make an exception. This is gonna be harder than the, uh... "balls of iron" you all speak so fondly of...

[Gorfnod]

They should have the option to use their humongous balls as a backpack, or a pair of drums, when they party around.

Hey thanks for pointing that out. I went from not even noticing their balls to only being able to see them as a walking set of testes.

[gurgleflep]

Hey thanks for pointing that out. I went from not even noticing their balls to only being able to see them as a walking set of testes.

I just Googled it... Never again! :smalleek::smallfrown::smallyuk:

[Mithril Leaf]

Is all of Green Ronin publishing this bad? I've only looked through a couple.

Oh god no, they get much better. The Book of Fiends is one of their better pieces, so check that out.

[Ashtagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_E0NNPCMIE

It's an advert for Anabuki, a construction company that makes apartment blocks among other things. Despite featuring Little Red Riding Hood, it's technically NSFW.

[gurgleflep]

Oh god no, they get much better. The Book of Fiends is one of their better pieces, so check that out.

That's good, and I'll look into that one now. The only other one I can recall is Bastards and Bloodlines, and I may very well be wrong on it's publisher.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_E0NNPCMIE

It's an advert for Anabuki, a construction company that makes apartment blocks among other things. Despite featuring Little Red Riding Hood, it's technically NSFW.

Talk about déjà vu, I feel like I've seen this before :smallconfused:

[Crasical]

In case you hadn't gotten the memo yet, Japanese mythology is pretty damn weird, if intriguing.

The way I see it, when you're talking about Tanuki, you can be talking about one of a few things:

1) The mythological Hengeyoukai, magical animals with shapeshifting powers (Hengeyoukai) and a tricksy nature. And balls. Should probably only be referred to as 'Tanuki'.

2) The Japanese Racoon dog, the animal from which the folklore arose. Can probably be referred to as a 'Tanuki' or as a 'Raccoon dog', the former being the standard tokyo dialect for the latter.

3) Raccoon/Badger. These are wrong and the result of a persistent mis-translation due to superficially similar appearances.

So it depends on what you want to actually represent, really... A race of badgerlike humanoids might be best represented by Anthropomorphic Badgers (Savage Species) or apparently this 'Tanuki' Green Ronin race, intelligent badgers that can take human form would be best represented by Badger Hengeyoukai...

[Prime32]

1) The mythological Hengeyoukai, magical animals with shapeshifting powers (Hengeyoukai) and a tricksy nature. And balls. Should probably only be referred to as 'Tanuki'.Not just shapeshifting powers. They're generally some of the best shapeshifters around, capable of turning into almost any creature or object. In most cases they enchant a leaf with the transformation they want and put it on their head (http://www.mariowiki.com/Raccoon_Mario), and sometimes these leaves can be used by others.

Compare the common depictions of foxes (kitsune) where they can take the form of any humanoid via illusions, while cats (bakeneko) have a single humanoid form but can sometimes replace it by eating people.

If you want to be really clear that you're talking about the magic kind of tanuki, you could call them bake-tanuki.

[CyberThread]

I just Googled it... Never again! :smalleek::smallfrown::smallyuk:


They are for good luck, don't even guess what a halflings may be...

[Crasical]

Not just shapeshifting powers. They're generally some of the best shapeshifters around, capable of turning into almost any creature or object. In most cases they enchant a leaf with the transformation they want and put it on their head (http://www.mariowiki.com/Raccoon_Mario), and sometimes these leaves can be used by others.

Compare the common depictions of foxes (kitsune) where they can take the form of any humanoid via illusions, while cats (bakeneko) have a single humanoid form but can sometimes replace it by eating people.

If you want to be really clear that you're talking about the magic kind of tanuki, you could call them bake-tanuki.

I've never been fully clear on whether Hengeyoukai transformations are actual shapeshifting or illusion. That said, Tanuki transformation powers are formidable to say the least. While I think I would be okay representing a 'standard' kitsune as a beguiler with some method of splashing in a handful of fiery/lightning blasting spells, Fly, Dream, and at higher levels Wish, Insanity, and Shapechange, I don't really have a good way to represent a Tanuki's tricks, since they change not only themselves but their allies and objects around them.

[CyberThread]

Hengeyoukai are wereanimals.....

you have werewolfs, but in reverse

[CRtwenty]

I've never been fully clear on whether Hengeyoukai transformations are actual shapeshifting or illusion. That said, Tanuki transformation powers are formidable to say the least. While I think I would be okay representing a 'standard' kitsune as a beguiler with some method of splashing in a handful of fiery/lightning blasting spells, Fly, Dream, and at higher levels Wish, Insanity, and Shapechange, I don't really have a good way to represent a Tanuki's tricks, since they change not only themselves but their allies and objects around them.

And they use their magical balls to attack...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq9Sxp2mkZk

[CyberThread]

<-< I think we may want to realign the conversation, I can see how a mod might be upset if we keep going down this track.

[gurgleflep]

<-< I think we may want to realign the conversation, I can see how a mod might be upset if we keep going down this track.

Agreed.

So....
Are there any badger-like races (excluding the Ryven from Tome of Horrors II, anthropomorphic badger's from Savage Species [the anthros seem like very little thought was actually put into it] and the one from Planar Handbook that's name escapes me) that fall into the small size category? I don't know how exactly playing as an awakened animal would work.
Shapeshifting is allowed (I've yet to meet up with the DM to talk about the hengeyokai), but I would like as badgery a suggestion as possible without going into lycanthropes.

[NeoPhoenix0]

As an omnivore the badger qualifies for lycanthopification. Make a werebadger.

[gurgleflep]

As an omnivore the badger qualifies for lycanthopification. Make a werebadger.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but...


... I would like as badgery a suggestion as possible without going into lycanthropes.

As much as I'd like to play as something along the lines of a (half)orc werebadger, with what level we're starting off as it wouldn't be possible. It could occur later in the game though so I'll take your suggestion with a smile on my face because badgers are awesome and so are werebadgers :smallsmile:

[NeoPhoenix0]

Missed that last bit. I'm out of badger ideas as far as playable races go.

[gurgleflep]

Missed that last bit. I'm out of badger ideas as far as playable races go.

No worries :smalltongue: I'm out as well, aside from going to homebrew, which I think I may have done towards the beginning of my time on the site now that I think about it...