Several Spell Sunder Questions [PF]

[Hyde]

Spell Sunder General-
Targeting- Does the barbarian have to perceive the spell effect to be able to sunder it? (Does he need detect magic or spellcraft or something similar?) What if the effect is invisible?
Are the effects of (Sp) abilities considered "spell effects" for the purposes of this ability?

Spell Sunder Creature- Does the barbarian need to be able to perceive the creature to target a spell effect on the creature with the sunder?

Hypothetical- A Duergar uses his "invisibility" spell-like ability. In place of an attack of opportunity, the barbarian uses spell sunder to attempt to sunder the invisibility effect. Does this work?

(Or, because it's in response to the ability, is it largely useless since it hasn't resolved yet?)

Basically, The rules on this read a little too much like IHS for me to be happy with it (less "these are the words used for IHS" and more "This is really vague and kind of hinky"). What are everyone's opinions about this ability?

[Psyren]

It seems to me that the Barbarian would have to know an effect is there somehow to target it specifically. This would likely involve analysis by one of the casters in the party.

However, the method the Barbarian uses to determine his chosen effect isn't clear, which to me means it can be general. Perhaps instead of "Krog smash Mage Armor!" the player could instead say "Krog smash protective magic!" and the DM would let him target that one. Or if the opponent had several protective spells active, the DM would determine one randomly, or sunder the highest level one like a targeted dispel.

Some spells have an obvious effect, e.g. a caster using Mirror Image or Fly, in which case the Barbarian could probably target that buff without help.


As for your Duergar question, Spell Sunder is a standard action (by dint of being an unlabeled supernatural ability) therefore using it in response to the Duergar's invisibility wouldn't be possible. But, assuming the duergar hasn't moved since casting it, he would be vulnerable to the sunder as invisibility wouldn't protect him.

[Hyde]

Thanks for the input. So it doesn't merely expand the things you can target with the sunder action, but is it's own ability?

That would suggest that feats that affect sunder and sunder checks wouldn't apply to it, right?

[Psyren]

Thanks for the input. So it doesn't merely expand the things you can target with the sunder action, but is it's own ability?

It is separate. Regular/Improved Sunder is, depending on how you interpret feats, an untyped ability or an Ex ability. Spell Sunder meanwhile is Supernatural, so it has to be something different. A Barbarian could not Spell Sunder in an AMF - this can matter if there's, say, a Wall of Force in his path.



That would suggest that feats that affect sunder and sunder checks wouldn't apply to it, right?

That would depend on their wording, but for the most part yes again.