Going from 3.5 to d20 Modern

[Zergrusheddie]

Oh, hello forum member, I didn't see you come in. Please, have a seat. Would you like some tea? Sorry, I am all out. But while you are here I do have a question that I would highly appreciate an answer to.

I am looking to make a campaign around the SCP Foundation (http://www.scp-wiki.net/). Since the idea is essentially "X-Files + Men in Black + really dark themes", I figured that 3.5 would not be the best system. In 3.5, the players are so used to dealing with demons, devils, and the oggie-boggies that go bump in the night that it wouldn't mesh well with the darker, more intense atmosphere I am going with. Adding the fact that the SCP is supposed to be based in modern day (or slightly advanced), I figured that d20 Modern would be a good idea because it doesn't involve the players completely learning a new system like Mutants and Masterminds.

So is there anything specific I need to know about being a DM for d20 Modern? How different is it from 3.5?

[Flickerdart]

D20m's supernatural stuff is, from what I've seen, actually not all that great. Given that the Foundation's agents are quite used to dealing with threats of exactly this type, and analyzing oogie boogies is literally their job, 3.5 should work all right. As an added bonus, given that pretty much everything is immune to conventional weaponry, you wouldn't even need stats for guns and flak jackets and such.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Regardless of system, the PLAYERS are going to be used to dealing with that kind of stuff. The horror is going to hinge on how well you can use atmosphere and descriptions and suchlike, and that's going to be true pretty much whatever you play.

[CIDE]

D20 modern/future specifically calls you to use 3.X as supplemental material for additional supernatural stuff. Wizards website also has sections to convert the techie d20 moder/future stuff to 3.X such as the mechs used. With that in mind my group has very successfully merged the two systems. i wouldn't call it seemless but it went smooth enough.

[Zergrusheddie]

Right, I know that atmosphere is still the biggest part so that the players don't go "SCP-682? Let's gank it!" but putting them in a slightly alien system will help.

Mostly I am just seeking to try something new. Are there any glaring differences between the two systems or is it minor stuff here and there (IE, I assume something like "Knowledge: Computers" exists in Modern.)

-Eddie

[Mithril Leaf]

If you're going for a more sciency feel, I'd also like to recommend some Gramarie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291019) since it's a system designed to allow creation of modern tech through magical cheat codes. Worth considering.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Right, I know that atmosphere is still the biggest part so that the players don't go "SCP-682? Let's gank it!" but putting them in a slightly alien system will help.
I don't know that it'll do that much, unless you switch to a significantly more lethal system. I suspect it'll be more like switching from 3.5 to pathfinder-- lots of minor differences, but an identical overall feel.

[The honest illusionist]

You might want to look at Whitewolf Storyteller system. World of Darkness is built for this sort of thing. Throw in some oddities from Genius: The Transgression, and maybe a few absurdly powerful abyssal exalted as the Keter-level sentient SCPs and you're good to go.

Downside is it's not d20.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, for starters, you're pretty much describing the Dark*Matter supplement, so regardless of what system you choose, you'll want to give a look to that.

If you're gonna use d20 Modern rules, note that they're quite different to vanilla D&D in that they're a mixture of 3.0 rules with some changes tacked in. Classes, weapons and builds will be entirely different, so there might be a clash of paradigms as you cross from one system to another.

Character creation is the biggest one. While D&D assumes one of seven races (human, dwarf, elf, halfling, half-elf, half-orc, gnome) as the base races, d20M assumes only one (human) and thus all classes have the added skill point, not to mention that it's implied that you get two feats at 1st level due to the human bonus feat. If you're playing a Dark*Matter campaign (or its closest equivalent, Shadow Chasers; it's described on the d20M core rulebook nearly at its end), you suddenly can't have dwarves or elves running around. Dark*Matter allows some other races to play with, such as the Moreau (human-animal hybrids, akin to the Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures), the Sand Slaves (a template for nanite-infused humans) and the Sasquatches (seriously), so there's some...variety going on. Afterwards, you're limited at first to six classes, one for each of the ability scores: thus, you get a Strong Hero (for Strength), Fast Hero (for Dexterity), and so on. You round up your character with occupations (describing what you did before adventuring, such as being a Law Enforcement officer, a Celebrity, and so on), which grant bonus feats and permanent class skills for any class you take, and wealth, which replaces money.

Classes themselves have changed a lot. First and foremost, no class has innate armor proficiency, and all characters are assumed to have Simple Weapon Proficiency from the start. d20M applies a class-based bonus to Defense (the term used for Armor Class), and grants some Reputation (which applies as a bonus to certain skill checks) as part of the granted abilities. Base classes (the ones I mentioned on the above paragraph) only grant bonus feats and talents, which count as their class abilities; their class skills are almost entirely dependent on their main ability score, so expect some odd lists of skills (and one of the reasons why occupations grant class skills is to pad these up). After 3rd level, you gain access to Advanced Classes, which seem similar to what you'd otherwise get from D&D base classes: if you're aiming for Dark*Matter or Shadow Chasers, you're limited to the standard advanced classes, plus those on the Shadow Chasers section (and those on D*M as well, if choosing the latter): you're on your own if you wish to allow magic-using classes, but the campaigns frown on that (aside from the Occultist).

Skill-wise, there's more in d20M than in D&D. Appraise and Open Lock are gone, but you get many others (Gamble, Investigate, Research; Open Lock is absorbed into Disable Device). Craft and Perform skills are somewhat limited and Knowledge skills are entirely different. Profession works differently, and is VERY important; it defines your Wealth bonus increase as you gain levels, but isn't tied to a specific type of profession (as per D&D; thus, there's only one Profession skill).

Weapon-wise, most firearms deal 2d6 points of damage and have a critical threat range of 20. Slightly better weapons deal 2d8 or 2d10. Differences between weapons are mostly ranges and the amount of ammunition they can carry. There's only five kinds of proficiencies for weapons: Simple (deals with most weapons that could be used without much training), Archaic (deals with all D&D-specific weapons that would be Simple or Martial otherwise), Firearms (deals with ALL firearms, whether they're handguns or longarms), Exotic Melee and Exotic Firearms (includes stuff like katanas, grenade launchers and so forth). Firearms act like projectile weapons for purposes of special qualities, so they can become +1 weapons if you want. Likewise, there's several different types of bullets, such as silver bullets and white phosphorus bullets, so there's ways to deal with most monsters. Armor-wise, there's still light, medium and heavy armor, but they're divided into four different types: impromptu (which can be used even without proficiency), archaic (stuff like chainmail), concealable (can be worn under clothing) and tactical (your riot gear and the like). Wearing armor without proficiency hurts even more: your armor bonus to Defense is reduced (+1 if light, +2 if medium, +3 if heavy) but you don't apply the armor check penalty to attack rolls as per D&D.

There's quite a lot of differences, but those are the most important to notice thus far. There's no need to speak about spells (erm, FX), though if you're using Shadow Chasers you'll eventually deal with your spellcaster or two during the way, nor about psionics (though Dark*Matter assumes their existence) at the moment. The one thing to point is that characters in d20M are weaker than their D&D counterparts, despite having more feats and action points to compensate (oh yeah...I forgot about action points...they're somewhat different, in that they don't allow you to use class features unless previously indicated, but you pool them).

[Zergrusheddie]

Is there something else I should look into if d20M is not the best way to go?

I just went with d20M because it seemed to be less different.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Fate might work well-- the new Fate Core edition, the Dresden Files RPG, or some combination thereof. It's decently rules-light, very different from D&D, and lends itself well to atmospheric play, I think.

World of Darkness has been mentioned, though I'm not familiar with it.

Unknown Armies is supposed to be pretty good for horror. I've only ever played a one-shot with it, but it was about the creepiest one-shot I've ever played.

EDIT: Oh, and Savage Worlds. It's pretty straightforwards, fast to play, has good rules for using guns, and most of the settings tend towards the weird. Check out Deadlands in particular-- they've got some interesting rules related to horror.

[Zergrusheddie]

Hmm, I think I actually have a friend that has Savage Worlds. Not sure if he ever played it, but I think I could at least stea-, I mean borrow the books.

I don't know much about it but I do know there are some pretty nasty things that go with that rule set, like being able to lose genitals and stuff. Anyone have any experience playing that system?