Cross-Classing a Human Ranger Archer

[Intermelo]

I am relatively new to D&D. I've been playing maybe 6 months or so, so please be simple and descriptive when explaining things.

My DM only uses core books, excluding PHBII.

I just discovered cross-classing. I want to beef up my archer. I'd like to somehow increase her accuracy, and damage rolls if possible. I'm going to be cross-classing in Horizon Walker once I meet the pre-reqs, and the DM has given me the green light. What would be other useful cross-classes? Oh, and my ranger isn't a fan of magic, so preferably nothing involving magic.

I want to be more useful to the group. I can stay back away from the hard hits, but most of the time my hits miss. :(


Not sure what all information will be completely relevant, so here we go:

I'm a human ranger, archery based. Level 7
My weapon of choice is a masterwork composite long bow, +2.

Feats:

Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Precise Shot
Many Shot
Endurance
Iron Will

Skills Worth Mentioning

Hide- 10
Knowledge (nature)- 11
Knowledge (geography)- 4
Listen- 8
Move Silently- 11
Listen- 8
Search- 10
Survival- 11


To recap:

What are more cross-classes that'll help my archer?

[SolioFebalas]

If consider standart ranger vs. ranger/horizon walker than:

The former has more damage output cos of favored enemy progression.

Second has more utulity abilities.

If using only core books i would prefer straight 20 lvl ranger or a couple of fighter levels for more feats.

Also i think Far Shot is useless cos fights rarely go on long distances.

Or if you still want horizon walker check this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

[Palanan]

If you haven't already, I strongly encourage you to read Eldariel's excellent Archery Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=642.0). Many of the options he details are drawn from sources outside of Core, but there should still be a lot of good information in there for you.

Also, when you say "cross-classing," I think you mean what's generally termed multiclassing. If you're using Core-only and don't have any interest in magic, then a couple levels in fighter would net you the extra fighter feats and a touch more with hit points.

[RolandDeschain]

i know you are new to this but as far as "avoiding magic" goes, do you mean all magic or merely arcane magic? your ranger will eventually be able to cast divine spells and there are numerous divine class dips that can significantly boost your ranger's combat ability

[Darrin]

My DM only uses core books, excluding PHBII.


Could you ask the DM if the Online SRD is available? There may be other resources online that could help you. (Greater Manyshot from the Psionics section, for example, or Sneak Attack Fighter from the Unearthed Arcana section).



I just discovered cross-classing.


Do you mean multi-classing? Cross-class usually refers to putting skill points into skills that aren't currently on your class skill list.



I want to beef up my archer. I'd like to somehow increase her accuracy, and damage rolls if possible. I'm going to be cross-classing in Horizon Walker once I meet the pre-reqs, and the DM has given me the green light. What would be other useful cross-classes?


Unfortunately, in your listed sourcebooks available (Core + PHBII) there isn't a lot of help for archery.



Oh, and my ranger isn't a fan of magic, so preferably nothing involving magic.


Do you mean "no spellcasting", or "no magic items", because if you mean the latter, then you're well beyond any help I or anyone else can offer you.



I want to be more useful to the group. I can stay back away from the hard hits, but most of the time my hits miss.


Hrmm? Usually, the problem with archery is not on the attack side, it's on the damage side.



What are more cross-classes that'll help my archer?

Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) build has already mentioned, but tripping doesn't really go all that well with archery.

Multiclassing into Fighter can help somewhat, as you can get more feats, but you're limited to Core + PHBII, which doesn't have a lot of feats that help much with ranged attacks. For example:

Fighter 1. Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus (Longbow).
Fighter 2. Bonus Feat: Improved Precise Shot (if you don't get this as a Ranger)
Fighter 3.
Fighter 4. Bonus Feat: Weapon Specialization (Longbow).
Fighter 5.
Fighter 6. Bonus Feat: Penetrating Shot (PHBII).
Fighter 7.
Fighter 8. Bonus Feat: Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow).
Fighter 9.
Fighter 10. Bonus Feat: Shot on the Run.
Fighter 11.
Fighter 12. Bonus Feat: Greater Weapon Specialization (Longbow).

However, all of these feats are regarded as very poor choices, because a +1 or +2 bonus here or there doesn't scale well as you level up, and becomes increasingly irrelevant as the non-melee characters get much more interesting abilities/spells. Improved Precise Shot, Penetrating Shot, and Shot on the Run were filled in not necessarily because they're useful (because they're usually not), but because there just aren't that many archery feats to choose from.

I'm not sure why you're having trouble hitting, though. You should have a BAB just as high as any of your frontline fighters, and I assume your Dex is at least somewhat above average? What is the rest of the party getting on their attack rolls that you aren't?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Darrin
Unfortunately, in your listed sourcebooks available (Core + PHBII) there isn't a lot of help for archery.

Actually, I think Intermelo said her DM is excluding PHB2.


Originally Posted by Darrin
Usually, the problem with archery is not on the attack side, it's on the damage side.

My first 3.5 character was a multiclass elven archer who could never quite hit his target. He was known in the game as the anti-Legolas. These things sometimes happen.

:smallsigh:

[nedz]

The trouble with dipping Fighter is that it trashes your skills. Talking of skills you seem to have ignored Spot ?

Also: what happened to Rapid Shot ? Rangers get this at level 2 for free.

You should have no trouble hitting things, so I don't know what's going on here ? BAB + Dex Mod + enchantments on the bow.

Do you get any buffs from the parties Cleric, Wizard or Bard ?
These can help a lot.

If you can fix why you keep missing then Rapid Shot will give you more arrows per round, which is more chances to hit and more damage.

As Darrin said: normally the problem is damage.

What's your strength ? If you get any bonus at all then you should invest in a Strength bow, and then get that enchanted. Energy enhancements are good for an extra 1d6 damage per enchantment.

Favoured enemy is situational, i.e. it only works when you are fighting specific enemies, so this means that it generally does nothing.

Ranger spells are fairly poor in core, the spell compendium really helps Rangers BTW.

[Intermelo]

Regarding why my attacks always seem to miss, I'm not sure. My average roll with bonus's added is usually around the 14-15 area. Not sure if the DM just really has our enemies beefed up, but it seems like I usually need at least an allusive 16 to hit.

I have a +2 modifier in Dex and Str.

The rest of my party consists of a wizard, cleric, barbarian, and two fighters. If the wizard and cleric have the option of boosting my scores (think i read that right) then they're not utilizing it lol

From reading what you guys wrote, I meant multiclassing more so than crossclassing.


I said preferably no magic because of my character's background. Arcane spells would really be what I wanted to avoid. Anything that was nature or animal based would be suitable.

There's a war in our campaign between the high elves and the wood elves. They're fighting over the source of magic: basically books versus nature.

Sorry for confusion or vagueness. I suppose the dice just hate me, because it's a 50/50 shot to see if I hit.

To the person who said Ranger should of had rapid shot at level 2? I must have missed that. I know I gain many shot at (i think) level 6.


Also, since someone mentioned the skill Spot, and how I don't have as many ranks in it. Since I'm a human, I don't see well in the dark. We do a lot of cave crawling. Would spot help improve that? I figured my terrible eye sight would impair it.


As far as crossing with a fighter class.... Someone mentioned how it would affect skill points. Would I take any penalties to already established skills and stats?

[SolioFebalas]

Would I take any penalties to already established skills and stats?

Nope, you only take less points on the level (2+int instead of 6+int) and a much smaller range to invest it.


Since I'm a human, I don't see well in the dark. We do a lot of cave crawling. Would spot help improve that?

Nope, again, spot not improved you sight (as core human_ranger you can only use different sources of light or Darkvision spell, which you will be able to cast at level 11). Spot help you feel creatures pressence or detect hiding, disguised creatures. Before they stab you in the back :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

Your roll to hit should be d20 + 7 (BAB) + 2 (Dex) + X (Bow)
X should be at least +1 for a masterworked bow already.
Average to hit result should be 20.5 or more.
Using Rapid Shot reduces that by two, but give you two attacks.

Your Cleric should be casting spells like Bless, Prayer, etc. These improve the entire parties odds. Greater Magic Weapon is a good spell to have cast on your bow. Haste should also be available from your Wizard, this would give you an extra attack.

Hasted, you should be firing 4 arrows a round already.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Take a level of barbarian. Stand there and shoot arrows like crazy, but when things get close, bust out yer greatsword and rage 'em.

[ZamielVanWeber]

ayer, etc. These improve the entire parties odds

Don't forget Divine Favor. On a rapid shotting archer it greatly boosts the to hit and adds +3 damage per arrow.

[Intermelo]

Thank you everyone who replied, you all helped me out :) I'm going to have a chat with the DM and see about some of the spells you guys mentioned.

[nedz]

Thank you everyone who replied, you all helped me out :) I'm going to have a chat with the DM and see about some of the spells you guys mentioned.

I think you just need to talk to your fellow players. :smallsmile:

What spells do your Wizard/Cleric/whatever normally cast in combat ?

[Intermelo]

I've yet to see our cleric use a damage dealing spell. She uses her cross bow and hangs around to heal the fighters.

The wizard uses scorching ray, and some other fire spell that starts off pea size, rolls across the floor, and then explodes lol

He uses those heavily. The only other spells I've seen him use is feather fall... He pretty much just uses those two.

All of us are new players. The wizard, me, one fight , and the cleric have played about 6 months. The 2nd fighter and the barbarian have played about a month.

[Telonius]

Yeah, I think you may be somehow shorting yourself on attack rolls. You should start out with a +11 to attack (7 from base attack bonus, 2 from dexterity, 2 from magic), going up from there if you have any beneficial spells affecting you, or if the enemy is in Point Blank range. You basically only need to roll a 5 in order to get those 16's. If your d20 is really rolling an average of 3-4, it's time to either get a new d20 or perform some sort of purification ritual begging the gods of probability to have mercy upon your soul.

Remember, too, you don't have to use Rapid Shot or Manyshot each round if it's making it more difficult for you to hit things.

[nedz]

The Cleric should be casting buff spells and not wasting time with the crossbow. If the fighters hit more often and did more damage then the fight would be over sooner and they would need less healing. The Crossbow thing is OK at level 1, but by level 7 it should hardly ever come out.

Wizards can buff also, he should have Haste available already.

Wizards can also close down the enemy with various spells: Web, Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Grease, ... this will mean that you take less damage also.

I guess you are all beginners though and these things may not be obvious.

[Intermelo]

it's time to either get a new d20 or perform some sort of purification ritual begging the gods of probability to have mercy upon your soul.



Hahaha this cracked me up

[Intermelo]

The Cleric should be casting buff spells and not wasting time with the crossbow. If the fighters hit more often and did more damage then the fight would be over sooner and they would need less healing. The Crossbow thing is OK at level 1, but by level 7 it should hardly ever come out.

Wizards can buff also, he should have Haste available already.

Wizards can also close down the enemy with various spells: Web, Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Grease, ... this will mean that you take less damage also.

I guess you are all beginners though and these things may not be obvious.


I don't feel like we work as a team very well lol I will talk with them and see what we can't do