Detect Magic on Vow of Poverty

[Yogibear41]

If you cast detect magic and look at a person who is at least level 4 and has vow of poverty, do their weapons or hands(if unarmed) glow/radiate magic?

If said weapon radiates magic, and person sets it down would the previously detected magic suddenly vanish?


Playing a guy with VOP in a game now(still love level and no one knows) so I thought it would be pretty funny if one of them casted detect magic and saw "his axe is magical", and then at a later time cast it while I didn't have my axe in my hands, and noticed "his axe appears to no longer be magical" or something along those lines.

[Rubik]

What kind of ax is a simple weapon?

[Talderas]

Detect magic only detects magical auras from items and spells. A mundane axe held in the hand of someone with VoP will not show up with an aura for Detect Magic as the object (subject) is not magical and does not possess an aura.

[Yogibear41]

What kind of ax is a simple weapon?

House Rules, im not good either im LN

[Psyren]

Their whole body will radiate magic, not just their hands. Exalted feats (including VoP) are explicitly supernatural, and thus magical.

[Spuddles]

Their whole body will radiate magic, not just their hands. Exalted feats (including VoP) are explicitly supernatural, and thus magical.

I don't think that's supported in the Detect Magic text.

It detects magical auras which are caused by functioning spells or magical items. Supernatural abilities are neither. Like I don't think you can detect magic on dragon breath or a choker's supernatural swiftness.

I mean, they may still have their entire body glowing magic, but I don't think it'd be due to the Su tag.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Their whole body will radiate magic, not just their hands. Exalted feats (including VoP) are explicitly supernatural, and thus magical.

I agree with spuddles.

Yes it is supernatural and thus poor VoP people are severely debuffed in an antimagic field. However detect magic does not pick up supernatural auras only spells and magic items.

[Crake]

I agree with spuddles.

Yes it is supernatural and thus poor VoP people are severely debuffed in an antimagic field. However detect magic does not pick up supernatural auras only spells and magic items.

Actually, i think you'll find that many of the VoP abilities are Ex abilities, and thus aren't actually lost in an AMF, some of the bigger ones, like deflection and armor are Su, as is Exalted Strike, but things like energy resistance, sustenance, natural armor, they're all Ex.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Actually, i think you'll find that many of the VoP abilities are Ex abilities, and thus aren't actually lost in an AMF, some of the bigger ones, like deflection and armor are Su, as is Exalted Strike, but things like energy resistance, sustenance, natural armor, they're all Ex.

Those extraordinary abilities are granted by vow of poverty, which is suppressed in an antimagic field because it is supernatural, because it is an exalted feat.

Although I would house rule that the person who has VoP would keep those abilities just to be nice to him. Unless he has the saint template, which he won't, because i don't allow it.

[Psyren]

I don't think that's supported in the Detect Magic text.

It detects magical auras which are caused by functioning spells or magical items. Supernatural abilities are neither.

They are, however, "nonspell effects," which are explicitly detected. As are creatures. If they had meant only items, it would have said so.

[NeoPhoenix0]

They are, however, "nonspell effects," which are explicitly detected. As are creatures. If they had meant only items, it would have said so.

something that isn't a magic item or spell has no aura according to detect magic. You can determine the school of an aura. So the nonspell effect entry is for magic items as opposed to spells. This would work if supernatural things were given an aura but they aren't. Also it says summoned creatures are detected but not normal creatures, It's the conjuration spell that gives an aura not the creature.

[Yogibear41]

Unless he has the saint template, which he won't, because i don't allow it.

Not even single class'd paladins!? :smallsmile:

[NeoPhoenix0]

Not even single class'd paladins!? :smallsmile:

Not even single classed commoners.

[Spuddles]

They are, however, "nonspell effects," which are explicitly detected. As are creatures. If they had meant only items, it would have said so.

Interesting.

Supernatural abilities have an effective caster level, too.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Interesting.

Supernatural abilities have an effective caster level, too.

As I stated earlier, it doesn't work that way. I'll try to be clearer this time.

The phrase nonspell effect only pops up for determining the school of magic of an aura. The spell only gives auras to spells and magic items. So nonspell effect only applies when determining the school of magic for a magic item.

[Psyren]

As I stated earlier, it doesn't work that way. I'll try to be clearer this time.

The phrase nonspell effect only pops up for determining the school of magic of an aura. The spell only gives auras to spells and magic items. So nonspell effect only applies when determining the school of magic for a magic item.

What that line shows is that nonspell effects have auras, and that is all that Detect Magic is concerned with.. If they had wanted to restrict it to items they would have.

Soulmelds can be detected. So can vestige powers. Dragonfire leaves a lingering aura. None of these are items or spells.

[Phelix-Mu]

I seem to remember this very issue concerning detect magic and Su stuff being detectable triggering a huge discussion a couple of months ago. Wish I could remember heads or tails about keywords for the thread...maybe I'll invest some time googling later. The discussion was pretty good, though I don't remember the conclusion.

I'm under the impression the Psyren's position was rather well-supported, though, even though I personally find that detect magic becomes crazy useful as detection, since Su is just about everywhere. There was also some discussion about what exactly you could pinpoint with just an aura to go by, which was also pretty interesting.

[Talderas]

What that line shows is that nonspell effects have auras, and that is all that Detect Magic is concerned with.. If they had wanted to restrict it to items they would have.

Soulmelds can be detected. So can vestige powers. Dragonfire leaves a lingering aura. None of these are items or spells.

Detect Magic provides no means of detecting anything other than active spells or magic items and their accompanying residual aura when the spell has dispersed or the item has been destroyed. In order to detect an aura it must have a strength and only magic items and spells are given an aura strength. Anything else requires GM fiat to detect, it declares that it is detectable by Detect Magic, or it provides the chassis necessary for it to qualify to be detected by being treated as X and thus functionaly becoming a magic item or spell.

[NeoPhoenix0]

What that line shows is that nonspell effects have auras, and that is all that Detect Magic is concerned with.. If they had wanted to restrict it to items they would have.

Soulmelds can be detected. So can vestige powers. Dragonfire leaves a lingering aura. None of these are items or spells.

Here is the only instance of the phrase nonspell effect in the spell.


3rd Round
The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

All it says is that you can identify the strength and location of each aura, and if the items or creatures with the auras are in sight you can spellcraft check to identify the school of magic involved. The roll to identify the school of magic is DC 15 + spell level for spells and DC 15 + half caster level for nonspell effects.

This line does not give nonspell effects an aura, it only gives a way to identify the school of magic involved if they have an aura. The spell goes on to define the strength of an aura.


Aura Strength
An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning spell level or an item’s caster level. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.
*table listing aura strength of spells and magic items*

This is the only information in the spell we have to define the auras it allows you to see. The only auras it gives you are magic items and spells.

[cerin616]

Now them, since these supernatural effects are "gifted from deities celestials etc" and you are imbued with a magical effect from them, does that make you a magic item? and if so do you have the associated aura with being a magic item imbued by a deity? Because i might actually find that a super interesting ruling.

also, does this mean you need to be masterwork to get the feat? Can I be a +1 monk?

[Menzath]

I thought that all feats were inherently EX, and as such not a magical effect. (Unless specifically noted otherwise)
Granted VoP is goofy and gives you like twelve effects, some of which are listed as being SU.
Also exalted feats say that they give you an aura of good, not a magical aura.

And as noted above, when is SU a magical effect that can be detected and when is it not? There are no blanket rules about them being detected as such so I would be in favor of detect magic not working.

Also since it is a lvl0 spell, and arcane sight a lvl4 allows you detect if a creature has spell or spell like abilities it seems to me that a 0 spell detecting SU is derp'in crazy.

[Tar Palantir]

I thought that all feats were inherently EX, and as such not a magical effect. (Unless specifically noted otherwise)
Granted VoP is goofy and gives you like twelve effects, some of which are listed as being SU.
Also exalted feats say that they give you an aura of good, not a magical aura.

And as noted above, when is SU a magical effect that can be detected and when is it not? There are no blanket rules about them being detected as such so I would be in favor of detect magic not working.

Also since it is a lvl0 spell, and arcane sight a lvl4 allows you detect if a creature has spell or spell like abilities it seems to me that a 0 spell detecting SU is derp'in crazy.

Exalted feats are explicitly supernatural.