Have the character concept down; no idea about the build. Help?

[PangolinPie]

So I had this idea for a character that really is just an aesthetic image in my head...but not sure what to use for the build...apart that I definitely want to make him a gish.

The idea is for a very theatrical and over the top dashing swordsman with elements of Clopin from The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Fandral from Thor, Baron Munchhausen and the Dread Pirate Roberts therein. He has a flare for the dramatic, often drawing a crowd; an expert swordsman and performance artist, most likely brandishing some sort of light blade like a Cutlass or Rapier or something similar with such skill and bravado that it can be used to both enthrall and intimidate alike.

He regards himself as "A famous charmer of fine damsels and hero of the people" yet the only thing currently in his way is no one knows about him yet, which he will also claim is intentional to keep the stories of his deeds away from the enemies who may wish to see him hang. (He is a master of contradictions of logic and tall tales). I may opt to actually have him wear a mask not unlike Clopin to conceal his identity making him something of a masked vigilante.

Magic wise I was thinking either some sort of illusion or misdirection related abilities to go with his showmanship or possibly some buff spells to enhance his abilities, making him seem more heroic and imposing in front of his enemies and admirers. I had considered adding knife play to his repertoire (like Master Thrower) but that would be stretching him way too thin...

So after reading over possible choices like swashbuckler, bard, beguiler, duskblade, warblade, swordsage and so on...I'm stumped on how to build this guy. Any ideas? (No Psionics, Faerun or Eberon content if at all possible)

[Urpriest]

A Bard/Paladin build might be fun. Something like

Bard 8/Paladin of Freedom 2/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Ruathar 3

Gets you +16 BAB and 9th level spells. You're a Charismatic, bard-based spellcaster, flashy with your sword, devoted to freedom, a friend of the elves (and I'm sure there's a Munchausen-esque story there...).

[A_S]

Was pretty much gonna suggest the same thing as Ur-Priest. Sublime Chord builds are where it's at for charismatic gishes. Don't forget to pick up Snowflake Wardance and Slippers of Battledancing (which stack) for both flashy swordsmanship fluff and extra charisma focus.

The flavor of your spellcasting is as simple as picking appropriate spells; with access to both the bard and sorc/wiz spell lists, you'll have plenty of thematic options to choose from.

[Manly Man]

Urpriest has it down, just about. But then again, when doesn't he?

Another suggestion is that you could go with Crusader instead of Paladin of Freedom. You won't get the Charisma-to-all-saves bonus (just Will saves), but you'll be able to pick third-level maneuvers and stances right off the bat (one of which is possibly the most broken maneuver in the game), and there will be other options available as you gain levels, should you decided to spend a feat or two on Martial Study or Martial Stance. If you do this though, and you care about Inspire Courage, be sure to take Song of the White Raven, so that you don't miss anything from those two levels. Otherwise, Paladin of Freedom, methinks, is the superior choice.

[A_S]

You actually only need 7 levels of Bard for level 3 spells, so you can have the best of both worlds, going Bard 7/Paladin 2/Crusader 1 with your first 10 levels. If you take the Crusader level at level 9 or 10, you can pick up White Raven Tactics without spending any feats, since you'll have an IL of 5.

[PangolinPie]

I guess I should have specified...this guy is in NO WAY Lawful Good. He's an anti-hero for the most part, trying to talk himself up as some great hero when he still has plenty of vices such as gambling, drinking and any woman he can charm into sharing a bed with him...so the Paladin angle is right out.

[A_S]

Paladin of Freedom is what we were suggesting, which is a chaotic good variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm). If that doesn't fly, though, you can take Manly Man's original suggestion to go with just Crusader.

You could also dip both Crusader and Warblade, which would get you access to both of the best level 3 maneuvers (White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge), along with some great Diamond Mind maneuvers that let you sub Concentration checks for your weaker saving throws.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Bard/Warblade? Take Song of the White Raven, Snowflake Wardance, and provide your own soundtrack as you kill everything. The standard is Bard 4/Warblade 16, I think.

[Blackhawk748]

im gonna be really different, as im going for a simplistic build suggestion lol

Swashbuckler 1/Sorcerer 4/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 5

You can get into Eldritch knight early by doing the standard Versatile Spellcaster-Heighten Spell trick

You end up with +18 BaB and 9th lvl casting to boot

pretty good considering i spent all of 30 seconds on the build idea lol

[PangolinPie]

Any way I can continue Bardic spell progression?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by PangolinPie
Magic wise I was thinking either some sort of illusion or misdirection related abilities to go with his showmanship or possibly some buff spells to enhance his abilities, making him seem more heroic and imposing in front of his enemies and admirers.

This to me just cries out for some beguiler in there.

[PangolinPie]

And out of curiosity...how would I build this guy if I opted for no casting at all? Maybe just some kind of magic item that maybe gave him a "dumb luck" effect not unlike Jack Sparrow where he tends to just narrowly avoid almost certain doom on a regular basis?

[Blackhawk748]

Any way I can continue Bardic spell progression?

actually my suggestions works for that too, your just taking more levels of bard, you can drop Swashbuckler and just take the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, you just wont advance bardic music

[Blackhawk748]

And out of curiosity...how would I build this guy if I opted for no casting at all? Maybe just some kind of magic item that maybe gave him a "dumb luck" effect not unlike Jack Sparrow where he tends to just narrowly avoid almost certain doom on a regular basis?

Be a Swashbuckler that took Fortune's Friend? Luck feats everywhere.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Any way I can continue Bardic spell progression?
With a bardblade? The only way I can think of would be Jade Phoenix Mage, but that limits you to Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

Alternately, a straight Warblade matches your fluff pretty well, and uses no magical effects whatsoever.

[PangolinPie]

With a bardblade? The only way I can think of would be Jade Phoenix Mage, but that limits you to Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

Alternately, a straight Warblade matches your fluff pretty well, and uses no magical effects whatsoever.

I read though that the Warblade's Reflex save sucks...that's one thing I actually see him excelling at.

[Urpriest]

I read though that the Warblade's Reflex save sucks...that's one thing I actually see him excelling at.

Not really, actually. They add Int to Ref saves, so with a high Int and Dex you're doing pretty well. Plus there are some maneuvers that can replace Reflex saves with Concentration checks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I read though that the Warblade's Reflex save sucks...that's one thing I actually see him excelling at.
Always ready Action Before Thought?

Or play a Swordsage. See if you can get your DM to let you use Charisma instead of Wisdom for the various class abilities that need it. But then you don't get the flashy leader-y White Raven maneuvers.

[Manly Man]

I read though that the Warblade's Reflex save sucks...that's one thing I actually see him excelling at.

Just make sure that he's got a bonus in Intelligence, and it's certainly not going to be your worst save. As mentioned, there's also the Diamond Mind maneuver Action Before Thought, and more than likely, you'll only need to use that maneuver once anyway, since by the time they can use whatever required the Reflex save again, you're enemy's got a slim chance of living.

[Urpriest]

For a Warblade, consider something like Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 17. That will give you even more reason to have high Int, Weapon Finesse for free, and will delay your stances so that you get them when there are interesting stances to get.

[PangolinPie]

For a Warblade, consider something like Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 17. That will give you even more reason to have high Int, Weapon Finesse for free, and will delay your stances so that you get them when there are interesting stances to get.

If I wanted to make a more secondary support character who's more dexterity based, would a Swordsage be a better option?

[nedz]

If you want more of a skill-monkey with better spells you could try something like.
Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10 / Beguiler +5
Nets you 5d6 sneak and Beguiler 19 casting.
You get a large amount of skill points and can substitute spells for Hide, Move Silent, Open Lock and Climb.

Arcane Trickster is possible for the last 5 levels, but entry is a little intricate; this would add 2d6 sneak but requires that you grab mage hand.

You can also swap Rogue for Spellthief, but don't forget to take Master Spellthief at 6th if you do this.

BAB is a little poor but you could take Arcane Disciple for the Pride domain to snatch Divine Power 1/day

[Grod_The_Giant]

If I wanted to make a more secondary support character who's more dexterity based, would a Swordsage be a better option?
Swordsage is the monk to the warblade's fighter. He gets more skills, lighter armor, and more obviously supernatural maneuvers.

"Lightly-armored secondary support character" sounds like Bard. (Who can mix it up in melee pretty well with the right build)

[Urpriest]

If I wanted to make a more secondary support character who's more dexterity based, would a Swordsage be a better option?

It depends on what you consider support. If you would consider the Rogue a support character, then Swordsage would definitely work. While most Swordsage advice deals with picking up some sneak attack, you don't have to: just ignore the Shadow Hand school, and focus on Diamond Mind instead.

Note that Swordsage doesn't have any party buffing though, if that's what you mean by support.

[Rebel7284]

There is always Factotum.

[Urpriest]

There is always Factotum.

Huh. Come to think of it, Factotum is totally how I would depict Baron Munchausen. Not as sure about the other inspirations though.

[RFLS]

Not really, actually. They add Int to Ref saves, so with a high Int and Dex you're doing pretty well. Plus there are some maneuvers that can replace Reflex saves with Concentration checks.

For clarification, it adds Int to Reflex saves, but your Warblade level is the cap on how much of your Int you add to them.

[PangolinPie]

So this is what I ended up going with...

Human Bard 7/Warblade 2/Crusader 1/ Swiftblade 10

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Battle Casting, Snowflake Wardance, Dodge & Mobility (req), Power Attack (Warblade freebie), Song of the White Raven, Combat Panache and Cleave.

After coming across the Swiftblade PRSC online and realizing it synergized well with the Bard, it all just kind of fell into place. What do y'all think?

EDIT: Still thinking about taking advantage of having Dodge and Mobility as prereq's and switching out other feats for something like Karmic Strike or Elusive Target. Plus Expeditious Dodge while Hasted via Swiftblade would be pretty sweet. Then there's that need for Extend Spell to increase on bardic music duration...damn...

[Grod_The_Giant]

If your DM will let you use maneuvers with Spring Attack... you already have the prerequisites...

[Namfuak]

So this is what I ended up going with...

Human Bard 7/Warblade 2/Crusader 1/ Swiftblade 10

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Battle Casting, Snowflake Wardance, Dodge & Mobility (req), Power Attack (Warblade freebie), Song of the White Raven, Combat Panache and Cleave.

After coming across the Swiftblade PRSC online and realizing it synergized well with the Bard, it all just kind of fell into place. What do y'all think?

EDIT: Still thinking about taking advantage of having Dodge and Mobility as prereq's and switching out other feats for something like Karmic Strike or Elusive Target. Plus Expeditious Dodge while Hasted via Swiftblade would be pretty sweet. Then there's that need for Extend Spell to increase on bardic music duration...damn...

Why two weapon fighting?

[PangolinPie]

Why two weapon fighting?

My initial mental image was for a duelist who used a longsword and shortsword respectively; one to thrust and slash, the other to parry. But in hindsight most of the more iconic duelists in fiction used a single blade.

I did think of an interesting variation of the original idea; emphasize the grandstanding and performance aspect and build this guy like a Ringmaster of a one man circus. Emphasize the Bard's limited Summoning potential, some acrobatic abilities, maybe toss in some illusion or enchantment, etc. Of course I don't want to spread him too thin as I said earlier so I'd probably focus on the Bard casting.

I seem to recall the "Savage Bard" variant does offer handle animal as a class skill.

I'm not as interested in maxing out potential as I am making a fun and interesting character to play.