[3.5] what's the best weapon?

[ojayaba]

So I was tasked with building an epic PC for a friends campaign. He's finishing off the story line for his age old character from 2nd ed converted to 3.5. I've got all of my class levels set and most of my feats as well. Currently trying to pick a worth while weapon and race for this. I have a dedicated 15 levels of Shadowdancer because i think that jumping through shadows will be wicked fun.

What I'm trying to do is find some sort of weapon or style to match my class selection. Any help would be awesome here.

[GlorinSteampike]

Probably Scimitar, or sickle. I assume by best we're taking into account cost effectiveness and proficiencies and such. I don't look too much into exotic weapons since the feat is rarely worth anything more than fluff or an extra 1 dmg average.

Sickles iirc are x4 crit and can trip, and Scimitars are standard issue.

[awa]

sickles are x2 not x4

[Kyberwulf]

Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer.

Or Harpoon.

[Medic!]

Spiked Chain and its little brother the Kusari-gama for twf'ers will always top my list of best weapons ever for just about everything ever.

[Slipperychicken]

I've got all of my class levels set and most of my feats as well.

The weapon needs to fit the wielder. Can you post his build?

[Psionic Dog]

Spiked chain packs a lot of options into one package if you have a spare feat.

Otherwise pick a secondary feature you want and match the best weapon.


Do you have weapon finesse? Grab a rapier.

Improved critical or the keen enhancement? Consider a scimitar.

Want to be better at disarm? A Heavy Flail or Ranseur will help.

Limited to simple weapons? Get a Morningstar.

And of course, the more sources you have the more options appear.

[ojayaba]

The weapon needs to fit the wielder. Can you post his build?

I'm not sure how much detail you want but boils down to this:

swashbuckler 3
rogue 5
teleflemmar shadowlord 6
shadowdancer 15
shadow walker template (+1 ecl)

totaling out at ECL 30

pre req feats that I have taken are dodge, blind fight, mobility, combat reflexes and spring attack. Due to house rules and flaws i have all of my pre req feats finished by 6th level. If i was a race that offered a bonus feat I would be able to skip the flaw.
9th level was used for Daring Outlaw. figured 1 feat to get 2d6 SA was worth it since I still have so many unused feat slots. I would like to keep it but if I have to get rid of it I can.

As for sources, anything that is 3.5 legal excluding ToB.

[Gavinfoxx]

Competent powergamers tend to make an effort to use one of these weapons in 3.5e:

Greatsword, Falchion, Spiked Chain, Guisarme, Duom, Executioner's Mace, Heavy Spiked Shield, Armor Spikes, or if they were limited to simple weapons only: Morningstar, Heavy Sickle, Longspear, Fauchard.

And.... that build needs a LOT of work. Like an excessive amount of work, for an epic game. There's a reason I left out the finessable weapons...

[ojayaba]

well, I'm not looking to power game actually. looking to have fun with this character. I could break the game for the DM but I really just want to have something with style and that is effective. Long sword is to plain, scimitar is pretty cheese with what can be done to it. rapier was a thought but it can't be finessed unless I go dervish.
the goal of this character is to jump out of the shadows, full attack and dive back into the shadows before you can respond as well as you would like.

[Urpriest]

Note that level 30 is much higher in 3.5 than in 2e, as caster power scales faster. If you guys are just trying to make characters like your old 2e ones, you might want to start at a lower level.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'd say a level 30 character in 2e is maybe level 15 or 16 in 3.5e?

You should read this:

http://antioch.snow-fall.com/~Endarire/DnD/Challenging%203.5%20and%20Pathfinder%20Parties%202 %2017%2013.doc

[Lightlawbliss]

speaking as someone who is playing a melle character in an epic 3.5 campain: I would recommend you try to find a move versitile class that can also do what you want. That ecl 30 is going to have nothing he can do half the time with on-lvl fights.

for example: Warlock has some invocations you could pick and add in some feats to do what your doing with multiple class levels (but be better at it).

[faircoin]

True powergamers make do with shurikens. Silly, enchanted shurikens. +5 defending spellstrike parrying shuriken of warning for 4,000 gp.

Shurikens are best weapon. Speak no more.

[ericgrau]

Without sneak attack progression full shadowdancers are not good fighters. That's why rogues only dip 1 level. They and their summoned shadow are amazing scouts though. As his main weapon I'd UMD a wand of [empowered] ray of enfeeblement to complement his shadow's strength damage. That or pick up crippling strike but that takes 10 rogue levels which delays shadow-dancer. I'd rather enter into shadowdancer as a bard to get all the pre-reqs + UMD, and to haste the shadow for double the strength damage. The darkness spell is useful for shadow jumping too, since it creates shadowy illumination. Though if you're starting at high enough level rogue 10 crippling strike entry works too.

But his best use would be before combat. Send the shadow ahead to scout and to locate a shadow to jump into. Come in and scout some more yourself. Strategize from there, and probably have the shadow do some hit and run strength damage attacks before the fight begins. A wand of inflict light wounds will be good for healing him back up, if foes are even capable of damaging him.

[gorfnab]

With Shadow Pouncing based builds you want to maximize your number of attacks. Grab the Two Weapon Fighting chain of feats. For weapons just use Short Swords. If you need to shore up your AC take Impoved Buckler Defense (Complete Warrior). Take Craven (Champions of Ruin) to boost your sneak attack damage. Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) will help with scouting and possibly getting sneak attacks (it also combos nicely with Hide in Plain Sight).

[Curmudgeon]

You'll probably do best with a Small race. Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone, page 94) is a solid choice.

I recommend against the TWF line of feats. Instead, I suggest your best melee weapon is unarmed strike, and there's a superior way to get extra unarmed attacks in a round if you're fighting unarmed. You can buy the base feat Improved Unarmed Strike and the helpful add-on Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) in the form of a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic).

Add the following:

A Necklace of Natural Attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) with at least +5 throwing seeking returning; this will give you a ranged unarmed attack and ignore miss chances (thus, no concealment: that means sneak attack is enabled).
Add Greater Truedeath or Greater Demolition weapon augment crystals (Magic Item Compendium, pages 66 & 65 respectively) to the Necklace to enable full unarmed sneak attack against Undead or Constructs, as the need arises.
Superior Unarmed Strike feat (Tome of Battle, page 33) to make your base damage 2d6. (Note this is the same as what a level 19 Monk of your size would get, without any Monk levels.)
Snap Kick feat (Tome of Battle, page 32) to add a bonus unarmed strike with any melee attack; that's full attacks, standard action attacks, and attacks of opportunity.
If you have an arcane casting buddy in the party, get them to cast Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon) on you once a day; you can pay them back for the spell slot by buying a level 3 Pearl of Power. Failing that, get yourself a wand of the spell, at caster level 20. (Or do both, just in case the spell gets dispelled and you need to restore it.) This spell will give your unarmed strike +5 effective size boosts, to (effective) Colossal size. Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) adds another effective size boost, resulting in base unarmed damage of 16d6.
Craven feat (Champions of Ruin, page 17) boosts your sneak attack damage by your character level: that's +30.
Staggering Strike feat (Complete Adventurer) makes every enemy you hit with sneak attack effectively staggered (only 1 standard/move action per round). The DC to resist this is based on the total damage you dealt, so it's a very tough Fortitude save.
A wand of Vampiric Touch at CL 20. This will let your unarmed strike deal some extra damage (+10d6), but the main reason to have this is if you're up against a tough opponent, this will give you a big power-up of temporary hit points as soon as you whack them: you gain temp HP equal to your total damage dealt: 16d6 (unarmed base) +5 enhancement + STR mod + nd6 sneak attack + 30 Craven +10d6 Vampiric Touch.

[SolioFebalas]

Two handed: Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer.

Twin: kukri.

One handed: morningstar, skimitar.

Reach: Spiked chain, kusari-gama, chain sword, spinning sword.

Ranged: ...despite the fact that this is a magic item... Energy bow.

Thrown: shuriken.

[ojayaba]

@Curmudgeon: most of what you have suggested is based off ToB which as mentioned is banned for this. Thank you none the less.

Twin would be fun but I'm not really sure how to work it. Managed to only get my BAB high enough to have 3 main attacks. Don't have enough full BAB to get the 4th.

Spiked chain was a thought as well since it has reach and tricks to work with. A thought thtat did cross my mind was to use a pair of broad blade short swords as they deal 1d6 19-20 x2 and add a +2 dodge bonus when used proficiently. Dodge bonuses all stack so could tweek that to get huge extra AC.

I wouldn't mind something with a weapon style. Lightning mace was super fun to use!

[ojayaba]

Any other thoughts on this?

[Phaederkiel]

Two handed: Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer.

Twin: kukri.

One handed: morningstar, skimitar.

Reach: Spiked chain, kusari-gama, chain sword, spinning sword.

Ranged: ...despite the fact that this is a magic item... Energy bow.

Thrown: shuriken.

Why the hammer? I think the falchion is far superior. Spreading the crits is better than having spike damage that deals 2 times what a critter can take.

Kukris, scimitars and rapiers are the 2weapon fighting critfishers, critfishing is good. Exploding potions will always hit, cuz they attack touch.

[Immabozo]

Why the hammer? I think the falchion is far superior. Spreading the crits is better than having spike damage that deals 2 times what a critter can take.

Kukris, scimitars and rapiers are the 2weapon fighting critfishers, critfishing is good. Exploding potions will always hit, cuz they attack touch.

The greathorn minotaur greathammer is 19-20 x4 crit! Put the skilled and keen enchantments on it for 17-20 x4 and he gets, depending on the build, I think you will get 1 or 2 BAB out of it, and id doesn't cost a feat!

[Irk]

for specific weapons, manyfang dagger for quadruple damage or shortsword of subtlety for sneakattack synergy.

If you're going for scimitar, just do great scimitar, more damage, still one handed.

as for two handed, probably kukris, but the tiger fang, one of the nine swords and a legacy weapon is pretty awesome. Also, although it's form ToB, it doesn't use any of the rules introduced therein, so it might be acceptable.

Flindbars deal 2d4 bludgeoning crits on a 19-20 and you can disarm for free when you cirt, and a plus 2 to disarm attempts.

Chatchkas are ranged (20 ft, so can still work with sneak attack) and crit on an 18-20.

if you do go for exotic, try eagle's claw, exactly like a scimitar, but already a light weapon, same crit range, and there is a feat, eagle's fury, that allows an extra attack a la rapid shot.

also, you can use any weapon style with any weapon with the aptitude enhancement, which one would normally acquire form warblade, but that's banned.
as for specific feats: maybe spinning halberd, gives an extra attack, albeit at -5, and provides a +1 dodge bonus, which you were discussing earlier.

also maybe invest in some ambush feats

[Phaederkiel]

The greathorn minotaur greathammer is 19-20 x4 crit! Put the skilled and keen enchantments on it for 17-20 x4 and he gets, depending on the build, I think you will get 1 or 2 BAB out of it, and id doesn't cost a feat!

how do you get bab out of it?

and as I said, the hammer (which i think, btw, is commonly accepted as a missprint) is great at spikedamage. But I say that the 15-20 x 2 of a falchion is superior, since it causes more crits. Put something like prismatic or slowburst on it, and it is far better than more damage.

what does the skilled enchantment do?

________________________

oh, and the manyfangs dagger. I think, that one was voted as one of the most broken things in dnd, was it not? If your GM is stupid enough to let you use this, have fun breaking his game.

[Immabozo]

how do you get bab out of it?

...

what does the skilled enchantment do?

Skilled enchantment treats you as having weapon proficiency with that weapon and treats you as having a 3/4 BAB, so multi-classing and losing BAB for 3/4 BAB classes (like rogue, to shadowdancer (IIRC) and I think all of his PRC classes).

War Hulk is the hands down best class for that enchantment. 0 BAB progression, but +2 str each level instead.

[Curmudgeon]

@Curmudgeon: most of what you have suggested is based off ToB which as mentioned is banned for this. Thank you none the less.
Yeah, I missed that; "excluding ToB" in message # 8 doesn't exactly jump out as much as "Nothing from Tome of Battle allowed" in message # 1.

However, "most" is quite an overstatement. You'll miss out on the extra attack from Snap Kick, but you can add in a Monk's Belt in place of Superior Unarmed Strike; you'll start with 1d6 rather than 2d6 base and end up with 8d6 unarmed damage. That's still pretty good compared to most available weapons in the game.

With some feats freed up you could alter your build for increased reach, which is always helpful.

Aberration Blood feat (Lords of Madness, page 178) can grant flexible limbs to a Humanoid.
Extended Reach feat (Savage Species, page 34) works if you have flexible body parts, granting +5' to reach.
Inhuman Reach feat (Lords of Madness, page 180) can extend reach by a further +5', at a cost of -1 to all melee attack rolls.
A Small character punching from 15' away might surprise some enemies.

[ojayaba]

what/where can i find the manyfang dagger? never even heard of it before.
where is this great scimitar at as well?
seems ive never heard of a lot of these odd named weapons your talking about :(
please site locations where i can start looking for them.

[Curmudgeon]

what/where can i find the manyfang dagger?
Manyfang Dagger is in Serpent Kingdoms on page 152. It's a highly abusable item as written.

[Gavinfoxx]

Great Scimitar is in Sandstorm, I think.

[ojayaba]

Manyfang Dagger is in Serpent Kingdoms on page 152. It's a highly abusable item as written.

...that's not highly abusable... that's full on BROKEN!
I think what I'm going to do is upgrade the HELL out of that to epic levels and just DESTROY worlds!!

Thank you every one, if more ideas come in I'm always looking for future things and possible tweeks to current things.