can i be fochlucan lyrist if i took bardic knack?

[bbkilla]

i really wanted that PrC, but now i saw that i need Bardic knowledge. is it to late for me if i already traded my Bardic knowledge for Bardic knack?

any help will be appreciated
tnx
:)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Most of the time, No.

However, there are 2 exceptions -
Retraining rules: Ask if your DM will allow you to retrain 1st level
Skarn Rogue: They have an ACF that trades trap sense for Bardic Knowledge.

[Darrin]

i really wanted that PrC, but now i saw that i need Bardic knowledge. is it to late for me if i already traded my Bardic knowledge for Bardic knack?


By RAW (Rules As Written), no. When you take Bardic Knack, you lose Bardic Knowledge.

By RAI (Rules As Interpreted/Intended), ask your DM. He's likely to be forgiving, since Fochlucan Lyrist has some of the most bizarre prereqs of any PrC in 3.x.

And on the Gripping Hand, you may be able to get Bardic Knowledge or something very close to it via another PrC:

Harper Agent/Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerun): Harper Knowledge is very similar to Bardic Knowledge.

Loremaster (DMG): Lore is almost identical to Bardic Knowledge.

Ollam (Complete Adventurer): As with Loremaster, but easier to qualify for, and explicitly stacks with Bard levels.

Prime Underdark Guide (FR Underdark): Underdark Lore is almost the same as Bardic Knowledge, but limited only to Underdark topics.

Prophet of Erathaol (Book of Exalted Deeds): Ecstasy allows you to get possessed by a celestial and make a Bardic Knowledge check.

Sublime Chord (Complete Arcane): Gives you back pretty much full Bardic Knowledge if you traded it away for something else.


Could you tell me a little bit more about how you're getting into Fochlucan Lyrist? I've been noodling around with a build that looks like:

Bard 2/Druid 4/Arcane Hierophant 4/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9
Feats: Versatile Spellcaster (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Shape Soulmeld: Impulse Boots (6th), Open Least Chakra (9th).

Skill points are a little tricky, but I can get everything I need with an Int 12 Human (or Int 14 w/ another race) and the Skilled City Dweller ACF to swap the druid's Handle Animal with Gather Information.

[bbkilla]

are Retraining rules something official?
what is a skarn rouge?

i need bardic knowledge, not similar things.
but sublime chord looks very good so maybe ill take him anyway.

this isn't very opt build, but im 9 bard\1 rouge. im gonna take 1 more level as rouge and 1 level as archivist (i have 18 int 18 cha and 8 wis so i need a divine caster using int)
we met 2 low level druids early in the campaign and i tricked them to teach me druidic. (gilbness FTW)
im focusing on buffing my party only, not fighting myself at all.

[Feytalist]

Retraining rules are outlined in the PHB2. So yeah, it's very much official, but it's an optional rule your DM will have to go for.

Harper knowledge's (Harper Scout (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20031214a&page=6)/Priest/Mage) description actually has the line "This ability functions like the bardic knowledge ability", so it should be allowed. Loremaster' (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/loremaster.htm)s lore ability doesn't have that specific line, but it has "... just as a bard can with bardic knowledge." Which is a bit more ambiguous. It also doesn't explicitly stack.


Edit: Also I do believe he meant Rilkan rogue, which is a racial substitution option from Magic of Incarnum. Must be a Rilkan (a race from that book) and must be about to take 3rd level of rogue. In exchange for trap sense, you get bardic knowledge.

[bbkilla]

cool. ill retrain\Sublime chord

tnx :)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Edit: Also I do believe he meant Rilkan rogue, which is a racial substitution option from Magic of Incarnum. Must be a Rilkan (a race from that book) and must be about to take 3rd level of rogue. In exchange for trap sense, you get bardic knowledge.

Indeed I did. Damn. Cannot believe that I got those two mixed up.

[Petrocorus]

Well, talk with your DM. I believe that many DM would allow an ACF to meet the requirement for the features it replaces, if they are close enough. And i think Bardic Knack and Bardic Knowledge are close enough. So maybe you could just ask your DM if you can use Bardic knack for qualifying for Fochluran Lyrist.