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Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:02 PM
Mage's Cough[General]
Prerequisite: Arcane Caster Level 3rd, Intelligenge 15 or more, Constitution \ess than or equal to 8.
Benifit: By having to make a Fortitude save( DC 15, +1 for each 5 points of damage, +4 for each melee attack taken, +2 for any exertion beyond partial actions, and +2 for each subsequent round damage is taken or attacks/exertion are made) or suffer a coughing fit while performing strenuous activity(Strenuous activity includes taking damage, melee combat,any Strength-based skills,etc.),you gain a +4 competence bonus to all Spellcraft and Knowledge(arcana) checks. In addition, add 2 to the save DC for all arcane spells cast by the character. The cough lasts for 1d4 rounds and while coughing,the mage takes a -5 penalty to all Hide and Move Silently checks and is nauseated for the duration of the cough.
Special: Undead Spellcasters may not gain this feat.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:02 PM
Tell me what you think!

The_Snark
2006-12-14, 06:07 PM
What is strenuous activity, exactly? Does casting spells in combat count? Or do you mean heavy lifting, attacking in combat, and things like that?

And what are the exact penalties of a coughing fit, besides -7 to Move Silently and Hide? Nauseated, maybe?

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:10 PM
Yeah, I think becoming nauseated would be a good affect. And strenuous activity would be like climbing,lifting,taking damage, mellee combat,etc.

jlousivy
2006-12-14, 06:21 PM
YAY RAISTLIN! , but i sorta don't see this as a feat, but more of a varient.
i can't think of a single feat that takes away from any key attributes permanately.
edit: also it should have a pre-requisite constitution, probably 8, worst case 6
also in the description it should have specific notings of 'strenuous activity'
i'd say any non-magical combat, using a run action, and any STR based skills

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:24 PM
Good idea. And how could I make it a variant? Oh,by the way,you get a cookie for getting the reference.

jlousivy
2006-12-14, 06:29 PM
i haven't had experience making a varient, but just something along the lines of:
upon creation the character may take the 'feat' 'Mage's Cough' FREE
ie: prerequisite 1st level only
OR
if you are going for a more raistlin feel, you could have situations that grant that feat, but it just doesn't make sense the way it's currently made.
wizard level 4 is vibrant and full of youth..... he kills a goblin with a magic missile....
exp---> level up, takes feat
HE NOW IS VERY VERY FRAIL.
but i like the feat, if only my DM didn't explicitly BAN anything that makes your character Raistlin, D, or any other major characters from anime's, movies, dnd books, etc

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:31 PM
Added examples of strenuous activity.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:33 PM
I see your point. I'll work on it.

blue chicken
2006-12-14, 06:36 PM
Thought: My not try making it a flaw instead? Variant rules in the SRD...just seems like more of a trait/flaw than a feat for me.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:37 PM
I'll look into it.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-14, 06:45 PM
I thought of making the flaw Frailty a prerequisite,but that would leave the user with very little Con.

jlousivy
2006-12-14, 07:03 PM
however, if u add the flaw frailty, i wouldn't see a problem of adding +1 caster level, or an addition 2 to the save DCS.
before people argue saying that would be 'overpowered'
wizards already have extremely low fort saves (+6), with a -5 to your con, lets be generous and say you put a 14 in your con---- 9. you already have -1 hp from con, and another -1 for frail and -1 to fort saves
add frail....
w/out magic items you're sitting at lvl 20 with
40 hp, +5 fortitude save....
so in short, i'd say it should be buffed a bit...
40 hp.. wizard fails his reflex save from a fireball from a 10th level caster and he can be royally screwed

sigurd
2006-12-14, 08:46 PM
Speaking as someone with asthma I'd have to say there is no upside to the cough - inventing one is sort of like rewarding someone who wants a dagger in the chest.

Sigurd

Mewtarthio
2006-12-14, 08:51 PM
This guy doesn't have asthma. He spends so much time around books studying arcane lore that his health has degenerated, taking his lungs down with it.

The_Snark
2006-12-14, 08:54 PM
I'd advise against making the penalties too heavy and the benefits that much greater; if you do that, you run the risk of having characters who can't take a single hit from a creature of their CR but can destroy it with a single high-DC spell such as Dominate Monster.

fangthane
2006-12-15, 03:49 PM
Just in terms of keeping the numbers sane with respect to pre-existing feats and such...
I'd specify the skill bonus as a competence bonus (so it'll stack with items but not other competence bonuses) and reduce it to +4 (as most feats grant 2-ish)
I'd reduce the DC modifier to +2. While I rule-0 that Spell Focus still gets a +2 in my campaigns, the fact that WotC reduced it from 2 to 1 seems to indicate that 3 might be a tad out of line.
I'd change the 45% chance to a fortitude save. DC 15 base, +1 for each 5 points of damage, +4 for each melee attack taken, +2 for any exertion beyond partial actions, and +2 for each subsequent round damage is taken or attacks/exertion are made. I'd also take out the con reduction and have its prerequisites include int 15 and con <=8

Finally, I'd change the penalties; -5 to move silently and hide, and a concentration check (DC 20+spell level) to avoid losing a cast.

As built, this guy's chum for the first high-level cleric though. Destruction or similar magic could easily rip apart a level 20 caster with a -5 on his con. Even if he makes the save he's got to take 10d6 and a chance at coughing his last round away - which is his next round.

He's also chum for just about any enemy arcane caster, unless he's fully prepared. Magic Missile has a good chance of setting him up for a big fall at almost any level, as do relatively weenie spells like Chill Touch or even Burning Hands. To be honest, arcane casters are already balanced on the knife-edge of too much power, too little defense; to further sharpen the knife only begs for PC death. That'll happen plenty on its own, in my campaigns.

If I were DMing someone who took this, I'd hit him with an arrow at the start of every combat. Not to kill him, just to piss him off. >)

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-15, 04:20 PM
Those were good suggestions. I added them.

Fizban
2006-12-15, 06:00 PM
Now, I was lead to believe that the only thing about Raistlin was that he had something like 3 or 4 constitution, with a cough and time eyes that had no actual game effect.

jlousivy
2006-12-15, 06:47 PM
indeed, the cough was just a really bad disease-like thing
he had the extra powers through fistandantilus.... but i'm guessing he wants the raistlin power feel.

personally, i saw raistlin with a 3-4 con with about a 25 int

fangthane
2006-12-15, 09:42 PM
Hehe actually the prereq was "con less than or equal to 8" as I intended... Basically it's only something you can take *if* you're bright but sickly :) You may prefer to lock it at con 6 or less if you want to really stress the sickliness of your inspiration.

The balance is a little better with the tweaks done though, for sure... +3 DC is just mean with an optimised build (one of my DMs once sent an Erinyes Sorcerer at my party... Level and equip one of those and WOO that's a harsh Dominate/charm DC)

Triaxx
2006-12-16, 07:43 AM
I was at first thinking this was a joke feat, sort of like a Wizards Sneeze. But I like it. I'll have to recommend it to a friend who 'always' plays with as little Con as he can manage.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-16, 04:56 PM
Thank you. It would please me greatly to know someone is using this.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-17, 01:28 PM
indeed, the cough was just a really bad disease-like thing
he had the extra powers through fistandantilus.... but i'm guessing he wants the raistlin power feel.

personally, i saw raistlin with a 3-4 con with about a 25 int

According to Raistlin's official stats,he has 10 con and 17 int. Which I think is dumb. We all know Raist has negative 5 con and 33 int.:smallbiggrin:

jlousivy
2006-12-17, 01:40 PM
Raistlin's 'official stats' where was that?
I'm guessing the 17 int was from the beginning of the books but apparently lower than a 10 con, but he DEFINITELY had 25+ int at the end of legends (highly thanks to fistandantilus i thinks)

Leather_Book_Wizard
2006-12-17, 01:43 PM
A googled the DL characters' stats. And I agree with you. You need a higher int than that to challenge the god's and win.

GuesssWho
2007-01-27, 07:37 PM
Now that we have this, can we do his eyes as an in-game feat/trait/flaw/whatever? 'Cuz I think it would be useful. I was reading Marvel comics and I thought 'Raistlin would be able to tell if stuff was adamantium' and then I started thinking about that. And it would mean that you could detect vampires, unbreakable objects/major artifacts, etc.

Zarincos
2007-01-27, 07:56 PM
not that i have anything really to add to this, other then this seems like a decent feat, did you get the idea from the Ebenezum series?

Icewalker
2007-01-28, 03:30 AM
This is quite a cool idea, but that cough is really bad, maybe they should get a little more than +4 spellcraft/knowledge(arcana) and +2 DC, if just a slight bonus to that. Nauseated stops you from taking action other than a move or free action, which can't be a quickened spell, so basically, what with already having an awful save with a 8- in con, they would be disabled for 1d4 rounds all the time, which is pretty serious.

Leather_Book_Wizard
2007-02-04, 03:02 PM
Now that we have this, can we do his eyes as an in-game feat/trait/flaw/whatever? 'Cuz I think it would be useful. I was reading Marvel comics and I thought 'Raistlin would be able to tell if stuff was adamantium' and then I started thinking about that. And it would mean that you could detect vampires, unbreakable objects/major artifacts, etc.

I believe that his eyes were the effect of a spell, so maybe I could make a spell of it.