Which items could you buy in average towns?

[Kafana]

I know that there is a paragraph in the DM Guide that explains and limits the amount of gold a town can have based on the population.

Is that the only limitation? Obviously I could go around the rule when it suited me, but can you expect to find a Ring of Protection +2 in a larger town always?

What about any wondrous items in general? I guess that an enchanter could offer her services to enchant the equipment of each character, but what about potions, wands, rods, and so on? Is everything (other than poisons and other evil items) available to be bought?

Of course, I can see how it would be impossible to have artifacts on sale, and major wondrous items (though you could have an exception where a merchant is not aware of the power of his wares, but that's an exception).

You could also have some underground merchants selling poisons and the lot.

Basically the question is: Where do you draw the line? Do you ban anything other than low level magic items from shops? Do you stick to the DM Guide gold per citizen limit?

[Katana1515]

How it works (just in my experience obviously!) is generally defined by two factors, 1st How common is magic/ folk with class levels in your world 2nd the style of the DM.

Obviously if the parties level 3 wizard is the most knowledgeable Arcanist for leagues around then +2 Rings of Protection are going to be thin on the ground. in that case you should be limited to masterwork level equipment and perhaps the occassional heirloom or other item that has some kind of story or other reason to exist. On the other end of the spectrum, in a high magic world I have no problem with characters laying their hands on just about any level appropriate item in the local magic mart (though they might have to have more obscure items made special). deciding just how much magic I want in a world is more or less the first decision i make when drafting a new campaign world/location.
(both are perfectly fun and valid ways to play of course, ive done both, One campaign had almost no magic items in it as Arcane magic was taboo and outlawed and divine was the tool of the authorities, a couple of players took it on themselves to be the party crafters and had a great deal of fun with it)

In addition a note on DM style, the gold guidelines in the DMG are okay, but I find that players get frustrated if spending their hard earned gold is difficult and it can feel false to just plonk a random metropolis into the setting if the plot doesn't call for one. A nice way i have seen it done is that the DM has a list of available items that the players have to pick from rather than just letting them have anything of a certain value. This requires a certain level of book work but allows you to have more detailed control over what's available.
you can even combine these 2 methods by saying "Generico is a large town, it has a wide range of vendors both mundane and magical, just about any item with a gold value of less then 5000 is available or can be crafted here," then (After a few gather information checks maybe some role-playing etc) "some of the more wealthy merchants have a few ... select items of greater value that they may be convinced to part with" then you can produce a list of higher value items they might be interested in, this also provides a good place to put plot hooks such as cursed items or ancient treasure maps.

[Kafana]

Could I get more opinions?

[CaladanMoonblad]

It depends on the politics of the community.

For instance, I ran a town called Teedon in my homebrew world which outlawed any sort of divine magic without a permit (a long and tedious process which resulted in not a single person getting a permit).

This sort of ban on divine magic effectively means that I as a GM, will lower my standard 10% chance of anything my players are looking for to be available.

Here's the thing; Rings of Protection require Shield of Faith to create it, and a 12th level minimum level for an NPC to pick up the Craft Ring feat. If a community can create such a cleric and maintain them, then yes, that Ring of Protection +2 can be made special order... but the right NPC has to live in the locale.

For Teedon? No such NPC lives there because the ban has chased them away. Normally I just use Donjon's Random Magic Shop generator (http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/magic/shop.html) to simulate what is in a store's shelves at the moment- everything else has to be made special order. Sometimes I roll 10% if the players really need something and it did not show up on the generator's list. I do this so I do not favor them too much in adjudicating the group story.

So in summation;
A) The community's wealth is the primary factor.
B) The community must have an NPC appropriate to create the item as a special order.
C) The community's politics must allow the item to be created in the first place.

Otherwise, most magic shops will not have a large amount of wealth invested in inventory. Most magic shops will rather advertise their ability to make items, and everything will be done on special order. Otherwise that Hero's Horn is just laying on the shelves as a target for get-rich-quick thieves.

[Rhynn]

This is going to be a re-hashing of a previous discussion, but here we go...

Running 3.X, I'd pretty much stick to the two limits set in the DMG: the maximum item value, and the maximum total value in the city. (Poor guidelines as they are, especially for someone who's gotten to enjoy Adventurer Conqueror King's excellent integrated economy.)

It makes no sense to me that anything except the most common potions would be found in stores, on shelves. Potion-merchants are the only types of merchants, basically; it would make no sense at all to:
1. Construct expensive magical items at huge expense (of XP more than GP) and stock shelves with them. Even if you can turn a profit on the GP, the XP cost implies a very hard limit on how many magic items a NPC would make, even if NPCs technically don't have XP.
2. Store expensive magical items in one location where they can be stolen by someone who is much more powerful than you but sufficiently tempted by the risk-reward ratio (likely to be much better in a magic shop than a dragon's lair).

Everything but the potions (and potions past the couple of any one type the alchemist/merchant has) would have to be ordered or found on sale by individuals who acquired them somehow. Both would take time; the second would take Gather Information checks in addition (costing gp as usual). The first has a better chance of getting what you want, but spellcasters willing to devote XP into an item for mere GP (which they could get in so many other ways) aren't going to be that common, and aren't going to create infinite items. The second method would be harder, since you're trusting on luck to find someone selling something you're actually interested in.

Local magical organizations like temples and mage's colleges could probably have some basic (1st-3rd level) scrolls and minor magic items (up to 2,000-5,000 gp value maybe) like wands and wondrous items for sale, but might restrict these sales to members.

Basically, it makes no sense at all for expensive magic items to be available immediately in demand, or for magic items to be available in arbitrarily high numbers. But then I like a setting with verisimilitude, that feels like actually participating in a world.

[Mithril Leaf]

Astral Caravan is a 3rd level Nomad power. If your town has a 5th level Nomad, you can just hop on over to Sigil with it and pick up what you need, since it 100% does have it, no matter what. Thus, the deciding factor is frequently whether or not that trip is worth it, and if the merchants have enough time and money to do such a trip. Usually there are merchants in a larger town that can afford to make a trip because they have the time and money. Once you hit a major city, in my experience you can generally find whatever you need within the limits, while smaller cities usually have things made when you order them, again within the standard level constraints.

[Duke of Urrel]

I know that there is a paragraph in the DM Guide that explains and limits the amount of gold a town can have based on the population.

Could you direct me to the page number of that paragraph in the Dungeon Master's Guide? I am interested in your topic, but more as a reader and a learner than as a writer or contributor. Thanks!

[Kafana]

DMG 137, generating towns section.

[Darcand]

I justify item availability by population two ways.

A: traveling merchants who make their living buying and selling magic items and who will keep an ear to the ground for items above the gp that characters inquire about.

B: estate sales/ government auctions. Where PCs can "bid" on items for 50-150% of the book price.

Semi- C: sometimes they cross paths with other adventurers looking to sell off their old gear/ loot for more then the local shop owners will pay. PCs can pick it up for 75% book price or equal value in trade with +/- 20% from skill checks (+5% per degree of failure on Appraise, +5% per degree success on Diplomacy)

I find that this gives the game a more realistic feel, but try to go easy on C, because I don't want the world to seem flooded with other adventurers.


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[Splendor]

I usually don't have real magical items for sale.
The upkeep variant in the DMG (pg 130) or the prices for hirelings (pg 105) gives you an idea what people make and spend.

NPCs make 1sp to 2gp per day. So their income is between 2.4gp/month to 48gp/month.

Looking at upkeep (which I think is high)
Self-Sufficient: Raise own food, own home :2 gp/month
Meager: Eat little, sleep on streets: 5 gp/month.
Poor: 12 gp/month
Common: Line in an inn, eat at tavern: 45 gp/month.
Good: Live in inn, eat/drink well, nice clothes: 100 gp/month.
Extravagant: Best inn, lavish meals, regal clothes: 200 gp/ month.

Now lets be generous and say we're looking at someone who makes 10x what the most expensive hireling makes; 480gp.

Does this guy want to spend 4 months pay on a magic sword? No. So realistically there is no normal market for normal magical items.

The magic items he wants to buy are CHEAP things PCs usually don't want.
Even a zero level use activate magic item that functions 1/day costs 180gp.

So the magical item shop, might have a couple zero level items on hand. Pitcher that creates 2 gallons of water each sunrise. (create water)
Cake dish that keeps meat placed under it fresh. (preserve organ)
An Iron that repairs rips in clothes. (mending)
Pot that makes a room smell nice. (Prestidigitation)
Fork that turns purple it it touches poison/diseases food (detect poison)
Self Cleaning chamber pot (Prestidigitation)

All other magical items should be made on demand. Even then, there should be laws or customs about what isn't made.
Would a wand of fireballs be allowed to be sold in a city to anyone?
Would the city guard want items that cast obscuring mist to be available to thieves?
What merchant would sell a pair of gloves that allowed you to cast charm person on him? or sell an item that let you turn invisible (and then steal from him?). Knock would allow you to rob his house when he's not home. Detect thoughts would allow someone to blackmail him.

I always make a simple list of what magical crafters are willing to make. Everything else the PCs have to make themselves, make deals with the thieves guilds or have contacts that would allow them to buy stuff.

Simple magic items to allow:
Continual Flame torches, Glowing Orbs, Feather Fall Token, Universal solvent, Everfull mug, Unguent of timelessness, Brooch of stability (lesser), Everlasting rations, Magic Bedroll, Quaal’s feather token (swan boat), Headband of Speech, Arcanist’s gloves, Troll gut rope, Watch lamp, Everlasting feedbag, Cloak of the Elements, Healing Bedroll (healthful rest), Goggles of Detect Magic, Hand of the mage, Bracers of armor, Brooch of stability (Greater), Cloak of resistance, Goggles of Low Light Vision, Pearl of power (1st), Phylactery of faithfulness, Reliquary holy symbol, Goggles of minute seeing, Brooch of shielding, Dust of appearance, Quiver of Ehlonna, Amulet of natural armor, Heward’s handy haversack, Stone of Alarm

[SciChronic]

i've typically never had anything other than the most basic magical items, and potions available, and then maybe 1 or 2 mor high profile items that i rolled for if the town was more wealthy. If you wanted a specific item i'd roll to see if it was in stock (some other adventurer had sold it to this merchant), if not, they'd have to get the item/potion commissioned.