Durkula, the staff, and Protection spells

[gellerche]

Right now, Durkula is protected from daylight from the spell of the same name that Malack cast on him, and which is also stored on the staff. I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere, but if Durkula doesn't know the spell himself, and has to rely on the staff, how many castings can he get out of it before he's up a sunray without a paddle?

Is there a limited number of spells/day, ad infinitum?

Or does the number of spells recharge each day?

Or does the staff hold the exact number of spells needed to move the plot along?

[Kish]

The staff holds a finite, non-recharging number of charges.

Durkon had better either learn Protection from Daylight or get resurrected before the staff runs out.

[SoC175]

Durkon had better either learn Protection from Daylight or get resurrected before the staff runs out.Or just avoid the sun like the other 99.9% of vampires have to do. :smallcool:

[angry_bear]

The staff holds a finite, non-recharging number of charges.

Durkon had better either learn Protection from Daylight or get resurrected before the staff runs out.

Joys of being a cleric, all he has to do is pray for it and he should be fine. He's experienced the effects of the spell, and has access to it through the staff, so he should be able to just "ask" for it whenever he has to refresh his spells next. There might be a miscast or two before he gets it right, but so long as he's not in immediate danger he shouldn't be dusted anytime soon.

[Kiraxa]

I'm not 100% certain, but can't items be enchanted to grant a permanent effect while held? If so, it could be that durkula is protected as long as he superglues the staff to his hand.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm not 100% certain, but can't items be enchanted to grant a permanent effect while held? If so, it could be that durkula is protected as long as he superglues the staff to his hand.

That might be possible, but staffs do not work that way and it would be extremely expensive to create an item to do that. Also, I don't think there have been very many characters in the stip to have shown knowledge of magic item creation beyond scrolls and potions.

[Taelas]

Malack's staff is already enchanted up the wazoo.

[SavageWombat]

Considering Malack's behavior (memorizing the spell once for the day and once for emergencies) I wonder if we can assume the duration is either one day or 1 hr/lvl. I don't think M would be trusting his life to a spell that would expire 120 minutes from casting.

[Kiraxa]

That might be possible, but staffs do not work that way and it would be extremely expensive to create an item to do that. Also, I don't think there have been very many characters in the stip to have shown knowledge of magic item creation beyond scrolls and potions.

All magical weapons are capable of having permanent enchantments, including quarterstaves. Staves are also capable of holding charge-based spells. I'm just not certain if protection spells are capable of being used as a permanent enchantment.

[Obscure Blade]

As I understand it he can recharge the staff by burning some of his prepared spells.

[hamishspence]

Some staffs can be recharged that way- but it's very rare- usually artifact staffs, in fact.

[ellindsey]

As I understand it he can recharge the staff by burning some of his prepared spells.

Actually, that doesn't seem to be the case in 3.5. It is the case in Pathfinder, and apparently was the case in earlier editions of D&D, but doesn't seem to be in the 3.5 rules. Some staves do have recharge methods, and this one might (since it's homebrew anyway), but it's not indicated by what we've seen so far.

[KillianHawkeye]

Malack's staff is already enchanted up the wazoo.


All magical weapons are capable of having permanent enchantments, including quarterstaves. Staves are also capable of holding charge-based spells. I'm just not certain if protection spells are capable of being used as a permanent enchantment.

We don't have any evidence that Malack's staff is anything other than a normal staff magic item. We have not seen it do anything other than expend charges to cast the undead-themed spells that are stored within it.

Now, maybe it has other enchantments on it, maybe not. As I said before, staves do not usually have other enchantments like that. A couple of them are also enchanted as magic weapons, but that's about it.




As I understand it he can recharge the staff by burning some of his prepared spells.

Actually, that doesn't seem to be the case in 3.5. It is the case in Pathfinder, and apparently was the case in earlier editions of D&D, but doesn't seem to be in the 3.5 rules. Some staves do have recharge methods, and this one might (since it's homebrew anyway), but it's not indicated by what we've seen so far.

I think there is a feat somewhere that lets a mage sacrifice their own spell slots in lieu of using charges from a staff, but I've never seen anything to let you actually recharge it.

[karkus]

Recharging items in that way is PF-exclusive, as said before, but he could also just buy the dozen or so different magic items (many of which are featured in Libris Mortis) that protect undead from the sun (most of which are cloaks).

[Psyren]

Or just avoid the sun like the other 99.9% of vampires have to do. :smallcool:

^ That.
I foresee a lot more night-traveling for the Order going forward. That, or Durkon is going to:
(a) research the spell himself
(b) rely on the staff, and then sacrifice himself when the charges are used up, so that he can finally rest in peace.


Joys of being a cleric, all he has to do is pray for it and he should be fine.

Not by RAW; when you research a spell, it gets added to your list and your list only, even if you're a cleric. Every other cleric has to research it or be taught it by you directly. We'll have to see what the Giant decides, though, as far as Durkon getting his own copy. (The Giant might give him a circumstance bonus to research it though, since he has a stick containing X charges of the finished product.)

[KillianHawkeye]

Not by RAW; when you research a spell, it gets added to your list and your list only, even if you're a cleric. Every other cleric has to research it or be taught it by you directly. We'll have to see what the Giant decides, though, as far as Durkon getting his own copy. (The Giant might give him a circumstance bonus to research it though, since he has a stick containing X charges of the finished product.)

Well unless the Giant is changing the way staves work, Durkon will need to have the spell on his list in order to be able to trigger it from the staff, so he's going to have to research it anyway.

[slayerx]

I'm not 100% certain, but can't items be enchanted to grant a permanent effect while held? If so, it could be that durkula is protected as long as he superglues the staff to his hand.

I doubt that would be the case. If Malack had the ability to apply a permanent protection from daylight enchantment on to an item, or craft an item from scratch with such an ability, i doubt that he would put it on an item that could be disarmed. More likely he would apply the enchantment to a ring, necklace or cloak.

[Roran]

Malack has access to an extremely large amount resources through Tarquin's various empires. If such an item could be created in OOTSverse, he could either spend enormous amount of gold making it, even as an epic item, or paying someone else to do it if he lacks the feats.
Since Malack has access to epic-level resources but doesn't have such an item, we can probably assume that items like that don't exist, or at least are so hard to get that Malack and Durkon couldn't possibly have one.

[Green and Red]

What do we actually know about the staff? Assuming its a standard version.
Malack said it held "many obscure spells" which i would take to be more than three, one of which is fairly standard. So:

-Protection from daylight (charges needed unknown)

-Raising vampire early (charges needed unknown)

-Create Undead (to create mummies) ("a few" charges each, assuming 3 here)

-More?

With just what we saw, malack burned 18 charges on these mummies, and used that fancy vampire raise spell from the staff too. If we assume that staff was full, and vampire raising costs only a single charge, thats 31 charges left. If daylight protection just costs one, durkon has about a month.
If it costs more, the spells used need more, or the staff had less than 50, things could be considerably worse.

Also, what do we know about protection from daylight?
Its presumably 5th level or lower, from the nunmber of 5th level spells malack used maybe only 4.
There seemed to be no material component, and it seemed to last most of a day, which makes a pretty good spell. (the only spell like that i remember from somewhere lasted less, had expensive components, and had on obviously suspicious looking effect (covered in shadow), but im not sure where that was from, maybe not even 3rd edition.)
Hmm, gonna check libris mortis if theres anything like that.

[Hytheter]

You know, the staff could be a Runestaff, which doesn't have a limited number of charges but instead uses spell slots and has a "per day" limit on spells.

[Snails]

You know, the staff could be a Runestaff, which doesn't have a limited number of charges but instead uses spell slots and has a "per day" limit on spells.

An interesting idea. But if Malack is not higher level than Durkon, it is mathematically impossible to have the necessary spells prepared to create those mummies. And Malack cast more spells than that in the same day.

Creating one mummy is a 6th level spell each.

[Anteros]

That might be possible, but staffs do not work that way and it would be extremely expensive to create an item to do that. Also, I don't think there have been very many characters in the stip to have shown knowledge of magic item creation beyond scrolls and potions.

We know that Tarquin at least has had items made. I don't see any reason Malack wouldn't considering he has the same resources. I doubt it's a permanent effect of the staff though. You wouldn't want to have to worry about dropping your protection from instant death.

[HMS Invincible]

Not by RAW; when you research a spell, it gets added to your list and your list only, even if you're a cleric. Every other cleric has to research it or be taught it by you directly. We'll have to see what the Giant decides, though, as far as Durkon getting his own copy. (The Giant might give him a circumstance bonus to research it though, since he has a stick containing X charges of the finished product.)
No...You're thinking of a wizard. Clerics in 3.5 just ask for it. Cleric's in OOTs do this weird thing where they ask for spells and also research a spell. Mass death ward doesn't normally have a backdoor dismissal.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm

[with an e]

No...You're thinking of a wizard. Clerics in 3.5 just ask for it. Cleric's in OOTs do this weird thing where they ask for spells and also research a spell. Mass death ward doesn't normally have a backdoor dismissal.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm
You're thinking of spells that are normal for a cleric of a particular deity. For a nonstandard spell, such as Malack's Protection from Daylight, the fact that one cleric of a deity has researched it does not automatically allow every cleric of that deity (of the right alignment, domain, etc) to ask for the spell.

[Lombard]

Nothing concrete here but my general impression as a reader was that the staff was kind of different or special in some way, i.e. with unusual properties. Either that or Malack had access to top-notch artificing. Both would be plausible, since Malack had easily been around long enough to acquire a really sweet item and he was also well-connected at the kingdom level.

Perhaps it's rechargeable, perhaps it recharges itself every night, perhaps someone was flowing Malack 'empty' staves that he charged up himself, perhaps perhaps perhaps.

Personally though I'd like to see Durkon research it because it could mean the party would have to go back into Tarquinville to get at Malack's library, setting up a potentially interesting MacGuffin/Obstacle/Twist mini-arc.

[Anteros]

On a somewhat unrelated note that maybe someone can answer for me. If Durkon has fast healing now...why haven't his bite marks healed?

[Cizak]

On a somewhat unrelated note that maybe someone can answer for me. If Durkon has fast healing now...why haven't his bite marks healed?

My guess is they are now permanent scars.

[Lord Vukodlak]

If Malack was using a PF staff then it have ten charges but could be recharged by expending spell slots. But if darkness is really required its been proven that Umbrellas can completely envelop someone in shadows


I'm not 100% certain, but can't items be enchanted to grant a permanent effect while held? If so, it could be that durkula is protected as long as he superglues the staff to his hand.

If the old lizard vampire could have had a permanent item of protection from daylight he'd have had one stitched into his chest.

[KillianHawkeye]

If Malack was using a PF staff

I am almost certain that the rules for Pathfinder have never ONCE been mentioned or referred to in this comic. This is a D&D comic. It always has been and it always will be.

[Psyren]

No...You're thinking of a wizard. Clerics in 3.5 just ask for it. Cleric's in OOTs do this weird thing where they ask for spells and also research a spell. Mass death ward doesn't normally have a backdoor dismissal.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm

Check again (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm#divineIndependentResearch) - clerics can research spells too, and custom spells they create are available to the researcher and the researcher only.


Independent Research

A divine spellcaster also can research a spell independently, much as an arcane spellcaster can. Only the creator of such a spell can prepare and cast it, unless he decides to share it with others.

[Rajhiim]

My feeling is the protection is an enchantment... but we'll know soon enough if Durkula has to do something or just hold the staff to resist the sun's light.

Nale knew the staff was an issue and had it tossed - if the staff was just a "charge" item, that's dispelable and I would think Nale wouldn't have been concerned as much. Malack would have had to use the staff to trigger the spell, while Nale, the Sun, and the Wizard attacked him.

But then again, Nale's wizard may have only prepared a single dispel... So they wouldn't want to risk him getting a charge off.

[Green and Red]

My guess is they are now permanent scars.

They were caused by vampire bite, meaning con-drain. Such things dont heal normally, or trough fast healing.
Now of course, in becoming a vampire, durkon lost both his con score and his vulnerability to such things. Insofar the effect should be gone.
It could be more permanent, but i doubt identifying vampires is that easy, the rules hold nothing about wounds remaining.
I would guess they will heal or can be healed, but may require more that the fast healing, or maybe him to have a place to sleep.

[hamishspence]

It could be more permanent, but i doubt identifying vampires is that easy, the rules hold nothing about wounds remaining.

It's a common trope in vampire fiction, as far as I can tell, for scars acquired in life to be permanent, even if ones acquired in undeath heal.

[Hytheter]

It's a common trope in vampire fiction, as far as I can tell, for scars acquired in life to be permanent, even if ones acquired in undeath heal.

Yeah, especially if the scar in question was where they were originally bitten. i've seen plenty of vampires in fiction with bite marks on their neck, its nothing new.

[Anteros]

You would think that if Malack knew the bite marks were going to be permanent, that he would've had the courtesy to bite him in a somewhat less obvious place than the head.

[gorocz]

Or just avoid the sun like the other 99.9% of vampires have to do. :smallcool:

Good thing the last gate is supposedly at the bottom of a tomb. Also near the northern polar ice cap, maybe there's gonna be a long polar night...

[Psyren]

You would think that if Malack knew the bite marks were going to be permanent, that he would've had the courtesy to bite him in a somewhat less obvious place than the head.

It's not like Durkon has a neck :smalltongue: