Odd thought: 6th level Leader with Followers higher than Cohort

[Segev]

This would be tricky to pull off, but technically, a character with Leadership whose score is 21 or higher has at least 1 6th level Follower.

A cohort can never be more than 2 levels lower than the Leader.

Leadership can be taken at 6th level. The Leadership score is the character's level plus Cha mod plus sundry other bonuses.

Is it possible to get a Leader PC at 6th level who has a Leadership score - by any means, of at least 21? It would be hillarious to have a Follower of the Leader's level, and which is higher-level than the PC's cohort.

[Hytheter]

If you somehow had all the positive modifiers for a total of +6, added to your level to make 12, you would still need a Charisma Modifier of +9, which is 28 Charisma. I don't see that being easy...
You'd have to use some nice racial modifiers and/or magic items (which may be about of your price range).

[icefractal]

Well, off the bat, you can have a stronghold, great renown, a reputation for fairness, and special power, for a total of +6. With level, that's 12, so we need a total of 9 more.

The Charisma-wise, we can pretty easily get 24 (+7) - 17 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 item. That's not enough, but it's close.


From there, you have several choices - any one of these would do it.

Items (in order of cost):
* Circlet of Persuasion - Does it cheaply, if you count Leadership as a check.
* Breastplate of Command - +2 to Leadership, done.
* Cloak of Charisma +6, plus one Wish; gets you to Cha 28.
* Admiral's Bicorn (Stormwrack) - More expensive, but doesn't require a Wish.

Feats:
* Might Makes Right - Races of Faerun
* Noble Born - Dragon Magazine

Classes:
* Marshal - use Motive Charisma

[Galvin]

I see no problem with it. As stated above, it would require many bonuses to pull off.

[Hytheter]

Also, since the cohort has to be two-levels lower, level 5 followers would beat him too, so we can reduce the requirement to 19. Now we only need +7 charisma, which is 24 - suddenly that looks more manageable.

[Segev]

Hm. Are there +2 Cha races sans LA?

[Arundel]

Hm. Are there +2 Cha races sans LA?

Lesser Aasimar

[icefractal]

Also Star Elf, from FR.

[Silva Stormrage]

If you use Martial Monk (Dragon Magazine) to get epic leadership you could get followers stronger than your main character.

Also remember that the leadership feats from HoB increase your leadership by 1 for each leadership feat.

[Azoth]

You can always add the magic blooded (spark) template for +2 cha - wis for 0LA from Dragon. You also have the Unseelie Fey template for +0LA. Drop both on a Lesser Aasimar for +6 racial charisma for 0LA

[Maladaptive]

Hm. Are there +2 Cha races sans LA?

Lesser Aasimar is one, probably the most frequently cited.

[Gazzien]

There is both an Orc and a Human build that relied upon getting Leadership Score 25 at level 6.

Sadly, I don't recall where I saw them, though I know they were on this board.

[Lord Vukodlak]

There is both an Orc and a Human build that relied upon getting Leadership Score 25 at level 6.

Sadly, I don't recall where I saw them, though I know they were on this board.

Now there's something scary for E6.

[Douglas]

I've seen example builds that do it before. They then took it a step further and had the level 6 follower have the exact same build, so he had his own level 6 follower, who had his own level 6 follower, who had his own level 6 follower, etc.

Voila, instant infinite army.

[Crake]

Now there's something scary for E6.

Actually, the first thing that popped into mind when I saw this thread was my succubus player in E6. Over the course of the game he ended up transforming into a gestalted succubus/beguiler and then he picked up leadership, hitting a leadership score of 25 pretty shortly. Thankfully we were on the same page and he didn't break the campaign, instead he set up a brothel/church/cult, and helped each level 6 follower reach 21 leadership, getting their own level 6 followers, and so each level 6 follower went and started a new church branch, and so on and so on. He now controls a massive cult dedicated to his succubus wife.

The funniest bit was when the other players went to investigate this suspicious new church/brothel that popped up, and the succubus player had to play along.

[Chronos]

The Charisma-wise, we can pretty easily get 24 (+7) - 17 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 item. That's not enough, but it's close.
Start with an 18 base instead of 17, and add 3 more from age. Done.

[Segev]

Funny how an old crone bard would be more able to attract strapping young warriors of reasonably high skill (i.e. level 6) than would a hot young pop starlet of the same bard level.

But yeah, Venerable does give +3 Cha...

[JaronK]

If you use Martial Monk (Dragon Magazine) to get epic leadership you could get followers stronger than your main character.

Martial Monk gives Fighter Bonus Feats. Epic Leadership is not one of those.

As for a race to do this with, Unseelie Fey Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold. That's +5 Cha right out of the box, and you've definitely got a "Special Power"... you're freaking Dragon!

Now you can do 18 base Cha, +1 levels, +5 racial/age, +4 item. That's 28 Charisma right there. So that's a +9 to your leadership score from Charisma. If you're fair to your friends and build a quick stronghold, this will all work out great.

JaronK

[Chronos]

It's not based on being fair, it's based on having a reputation for fairness. And everyone knows those unseelie fey can't be trusted.

[Silva Stormrage]

Martial Monk gives Fighter Bonus Feats. Epic Leadership is not one of those.

As for a race to do this with, Unseelie Fey Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold. That's +5 Cha right out of the box, and you've definitely got a "Special Power"... you're freaking Dragon!

Now you can do 18 base Cha, +1 levels, +5 racial/age, +4 item. That's 28 Charisma right there. So that's a +9 to your leadership score from Charisma. If you're fair to your friends and build a quick stronghold, this will all work out great.

JaronK

Since its on the epic fight bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter) doesn't it count by definition as a fighter bonus feat :smallconfused:?

[ninjamaster1991]

Since its on the epic fight bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter) doesn't it count by definition as a fighter bonus feat :smallconfused:?


No, for two reasons. First, it's an epic feat. Only characters who are over level 20 can have epic feats. This isn't technically a prerequisite, so it's nigh-impossible to work around. Second:


Bonus Feats: The epic fighter gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic fighter bonus feats) every two levels after 20th.

Epic Fighter Bonus Feat List...Epic Leadership

The epic fighter bonus feat list is inherently different from the fighter bonus feat list, so an epic fighter is, by RAW, disallowed from the standard fighter bonus feat list. This is solved by the fact that the epic list contains the regular list.

Hopefully, this clarified something, but I'm not the best at explaining things.

[JaronK]

Indeed, in short, the Epic Fighter Feat List is not the Fighter Feat List. Epic Fighter isn't actually the same as Fighter.

JaronK